IBT/UAL contract rejection, what does it mean to us at AA?

[Kev3188]

I thinks there's around 6k AMTs. Not sure how many ASM's, stock clerks, utility, etc. there are...

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey Conehead. If it was up to me and I had control of the negotiations I'd shift every penny that Parker promises and whatever else could be wrung out of him and give it ALL to those high COL members. Every single red penny. You'd get nothing but a yearly cost of living increase and nothing more.

And if you complained that people in NY are making $15.00 an hour more than you I'd say tough. Move to NYC.

I wanted to come back to this to prove that those who live in DFW and TUL who comment on here how all Mechanics should make "Equal Pay for Equal Work" are nothing but a group of SOCIALISTS that they say they despise.

CNN Cost Of Living Calculator.

What you would need to earn to have the same comparable lifestyle. Using DFW as the metric since I spent some time there.

$75,000 in DFW is equal to making
$89,315 in FLL where I live now

$75,000 in DFW is equal to making
$134,907 in Brooklyn NYC

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html
 
You would need around 4,019.09$ in Dallas, TX to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,000.00$ in Brooklyn, NY (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax).
 
Indices Difference Consumer Prices in Dallas, TX are 19.53% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Consumer Prices Including Rent in Dallas, TX are 33.02% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Rent Prices in Dallas, TX are 49.23% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Restaurant Prices in Dallas, TX are 27.03% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Groceries Prices in Dallas, TX are 22.22% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Local Purchasing Power in Dallas, TX is 38.30% higher than in Brooklyn, NY
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Brooklyn%2C+NY&city2=Dallas%2C+TX&tracking=getDispatchComparison

So c'mon. I want you guys to tell me once again how you're not Socialists?


 

 

[WeAAsles]

I thinks there's around 6k AMTs. Not sure how many ASM's, stock clerks, utility, etc. there are...

Thanks Kev. Now I want one of the rock throwers to come on here and tell me (honestly) how many (just Mechanics) we have at the combined AA?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW I bet most of us on here love the Seniority we have? I'm guessing everyone on here has at least 20 years (except Boblas)

Seniority goes against the very heart of the Capitalist system.

Does anyone want to get rid of that and we can be judged and compensated individually based on the work we provide?

Let's see a raise of hands.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

We have been trying to get the COLA in the contract for a l.ong time. It was a table position last contract but the MIA president at the time voted it down....

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

One of the JFK mechanics brought it up at the JFK town hall meeting and parker gave the usual answer "we will look into it..."

 

[chilokie1]

I wanted to come back to this to prove that those who live in DFW and TUL who comment on here how all Mechanics should make "Equal Pay for Equal Work" are nothing but a group of SOCIALISTS that they say they despise.
CNN Cost Of Living Calculator.
What you would need to earn to have the same comparable lifestyle. Using DFW as the metric since I spent some time there.$75,000 in DFW is equal to making$89,315 in FLL where I live now$75,000 in DFW is equal to making$134,907 in Brooklyn NYChttp://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html[/url

You would need around 4,019.09$ in Dallas, TX to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,000.00$ in Brooklyn, NY (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax).
 
Indices Difference

Consumer Prices in Dallas, TX are 19.53% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Consumer Prices Including Rent in Dallas, TX are 33.02% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Rent Prices in Dallas, TX are 49.23% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Restaurant Prices in Dallas, TX are 27.03% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Groceries Prices in Dallas, TX are 22.22% lower than in Brooklyn, NY Local Purchasing Power in Dallas, TX is 38.30% higher than in Brooklyn, NY
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Brooklyn%2C+NY&city2=Dallas%2C+TX&tracking=getDispatchComparisonSo c'mon. I want you guys to tell me once again how you're not Socialists?

That is unionism not socialism But if you want to call me a socialist, go ahead and knock
Yourself out. Yes I beleive our base pay needs to be negotiated as a single amount that reflects the industry going rate. Once the base rate is settled on then you can negotiate or just
Allow the company to pay cola rates that they set, because remember this is not the military
Nobody is forcing anyone to live in NYC and choice has a price. I moved to Tulsa like 60 to 70% of my fellow co-workers for this job, but many of us stayed because of the cost of living.
Let me put it this way, it the company wants to fly to high cost cities they should pay more in the form of cola's to the employees under the cost of doing business in those cities.

Once again I'am 100 percent for company paying cola's, but only after a single base pay is set, otherwise you are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[WeAAsles]

That is unionism not socialism But if you want to call me a socialist, go ahead and knock
Yourself out. Yes I beleive our base pay needs to be negotiated as a single amount that reflects the industry going rate. Once the base rate is settled on then you can negotiate or just
Allow the company to pay cola rates that they set, because remember this is not the military
Nobody is forcing anyone to live in NYC and choice has a price. I moved to Tulsa like 60 to 70% of my fellow co-workers for this job, but many of us stayed because of the cost of living.
Let me put it this way, it the company wants to fly to high cost cities they should pay more in the form of cola's to the employees under the cost of doing business in those cities.

Once again I'am 100 percent for company paying cola's, but only after a single base pay is set, otherwise you are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Unionism is 100% Socialism. I'll expand on what you said later because I have to leave for work. But think on this. If you support any aspect of Unionism you are a Socialist to at least some degree.

And I also made my "choice" to move to DFW and eventually to higher COL MIA.

 

[WeAAsles]

We have been trying to get the COLA in the contract for a l.ong time. It was a table position last contract but the MIA president at the time voted it down....

I know and that decision was dead WRONG.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok. We all have "collective" bargaining agreements. That's Socialsm. We all get the same thing no matter what according to our CBA. No room or ambition for any personal achievement or ingenuity because there is no monetary compensation for that. We're all treated equally.

Now many of you guys have called me a Socialist. Actually I'm further away from it than all of you.

I support people who live in more expensive areas being paid more than me. I also support and have had multiple arguments with people about it, tiered cities for pay. I think the company should be able to generate revenue from places that the customers can't afford to pay as much to fly because they don't have a "dynamic economy" I think it's a much better idea than fighting with the company on outsourcing rather than giving us the choice if we want to work there for less pay. So to me absolutely 2nd tier and 3rd tier cities get my vote if it reopens places that the company won't agree to otherwise.

I support a tiered 401k by age. (Think I've said that often enough)

Seniority. Not sure it's the most practical idea in the world? Just don't see a better alternative without it because of all the favoritism and brownosing that would happen to get the sweet shifts and days off? I've even read you guys say you should be able to take your seniority to other Airlines? You going to tell me that's not Socialism.

The company has hired people to do my job that can't produce what I can because of their size and strength. I have to do more to account for that and yet they get paid the same as me? Should it be that way? Socialism. Do you guys think people who aren't as good as you are in maintenance should make the same as you?

BTW back on topic. 7% of the UAL mechanics voted yes. They accepted the deal but they can't have it. Why? Because Socialism says they can't. The majority decided for the minority.

Think guys. What are you really at heart?

 

[WeAAsles]

That is unionism not socialism But if you want to call me a socialist, go ahead and knock
Yourself out. Yes I beleive our base pay needs to be negotiated as a single amount that reflects the industry going rate. Once the base rate is settled on then you can negotiate or just
Allow the company to pay cola rates that they set, because remember this is not the military
Nobody is forcing anyone to live in NYC and choice has a price. I moved to Tulsa like 60 to 70% of my fellow co-workers for this job, but many of us stayed because of the cost of living.
Let me put it this way, it the company wants to fly to high cost cities they should pay more in the form of cola's to the employees under the cost of doing business in those cities.
Once again I'am 100 percent for company paying cola's, but only after a single base pay is set, otherwise you are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

BTW you don't want to go with the industry rate for Aircraft maintenance services because if you compared yourself using BLS statistics you'd make less than you do now.

You want to compare yourself to DL, UAL, SWA, UPS and FedEx. Well at least in wages right?

Shhhhh on the jobs.

 

[DallasConehead]

WRONG genius. Compared to the people you want to compare us to. Delta, UAL, SWA, UPS and Fedex I'm at the absolute bottom when it comes to the topped out BASE wage. Dead last on that list. (Without painting the full picture you constantly ignore)

And I absolutely don't think your group are a bunch of overpaid crybabies. I think YOU are an overpaid crybaby. YOU!!! Now if you lived in NYC (JFK, LGA) I'd just call YOU a crybaby. YOU!!!!!!

12 years I lived in DFW. I know for an absolute fact how GREAT you got it there. I have ZERO sympathy for YOUR plight.

Move to NY, LAX, ORD, or BOS and you'll have earned your tissue box.

 
This is exactly the mindset I alluded too,  believing and injustice to one is NOT an injustice to all.  The man has no clue as to what unionism means.

 

[chilokie1]

BTW you don't want to go with the industry rate for Aircraft maintenance services because if you compared yourself using BLS statistics you'd make less than you do now.
You want to compare yourself to DL, UAL, SWA, UPS and FedEx. Well at least in wages right?
Shhhhh on the jobs.

That is what I consider the industry I should have been more specific.
Yes unionism has many aspects of socialism, but when you Work for a
private company and technically have a choice of having a union or not
I would not consider it socialism, but I see where you are coming from.
I support the theory of unions because at one time they were truly needed
and I beleive if unions went away the same abuses that workers suffered
through would return. But then again human nature is what it is and when
you get paid the same for doing less then your fellow employee it is a hard
theory to accept.. Having a closed shop you have to be a member and
since the company puts a dollar value on the entire contract why would I choose
to accept less so someone can earn more because he chooses to live in
a more desirable city, or a coastal state. Or why should I recieve less pay so
guy in NY can pay his outrageous tax bill, or how about a California based
employee who has his taxes pay for illegal citizens. I know that was a little
harsh and simplistic, but if the union ( that I must join being a closed shop)
will not agree to let the company pay its employees a cola above and beyond
the contract pay to retain its employees in a high cost area then why should
I take less?

 

[WeAAsles]

This is exactly the mindset I alluded too,  believing and injustice to one is NOT an injustice to all.  The man has no clue as to what unionism means.

No. The injustice is certainly not being done to you. You're just very greedy.

A fact that's up to you if you want to admit or not.

 

[WeAAsles]

That is what I consider the industry I should have been more specific.
Yes unionism has many aspects of socialism, but when you Work for a
private company and technically have a choice of having a union or not
I would not consider it socialism, but I see where you are coming from.
I support the theory of unions because at one time they were truly needed
and I beleive if unions went away the same abuses that workers suffered
through would return. But then again human nature is what it is and when
you get paid the same for doing less then your fellow employee it is a hard
theory to accept.. Having a closed shop you have to be a member and
since the company puts a dollar value on the entire contract why would I choose
to accept less so someone can earn more because he chooses to live in
a more desirable city, or a coastal state. Or why should I recieve less pay so
guy in NY can pay his outrageous tax bill, or how about a California based
employee who has his taxes pay for illegal citizens. I know that was a little
harsh and simplistic, but if the union ( that I must join being a closed shop)
will not agree to let the company pay its employees a cola above and beyond
the contract pay to retain its employees in a high cost area then why should
I take less?

Excellent response. Great points.