UAL Mechanics and related reject contract

[Hopeful]

Exactly.

Work to Rule or Follow the Manual appear to be job actions precipitated by frustrations over the pace of negotiations, and a reasonable inference is that mechanics don't do it otherwise.

Ken has a difficult road ahead of him in attempting to "save the profession" unless those three words are really just code for "all we need is a pay raise."

What you and other "non-airline or non-mechanic" people also need to realize is that AA management has a knack for accusing us of job actions merely by a higher number of aircraft out of service at any given time.

It seems you are having a hard time of what it means to go by the book....

THE BOOK IS ONLY USED WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't walk around all day with "the book" under our arms....
"the book" that everyone is obsessed with does allow the mechanic certain leeway in certain instances.

If a flight attendant writes up an oven not getting hot enough, i can either defer that oven, or take a delay waiting for a thermometer to be found,, your choice..

Water not hot in several of the lavs? Warm not good enough??? No problem, I'll turn off all the water and people can use sani-wipes....

If that seat doesn't recline the required travel and comes up 1 inch less than "the book" states, then I will lock out the recline feature on that seat...Not a nice thing to do to a big shot first class passenger paying big bucks. Hell, not a nice thing to do on a full flight in cattle car seating....

If i can't use my decades of experience and judgement in just looking at a "scuffed" tire found on pilot's preflight, then I am just going to have to go back in the office and look up GPM limits....And if the computer system is down or just as slow as molasses, then that's what i'll do......your choice.

What you fail to realize is that if i don't use my judgement on "non-airworthy" items and have to refer to proper references, the delays will increase ten fold...
From my point of view, the airworthy items are ALWAYS followed verbatim...Time consuming research and troublehooting and repair..


Do you want me to block a seat out using tape? or does it matter to you if I delay the flight so that I go look for the fancy harness instead?

Your choice!

 

[Interested]

What you and other "non-airline or non-mechanic" people also need to realize is that AA management has a knack for accusing us of job actions merely by a higher number of aircraft out of service at any given time.

It seems you are having a hard time of what it means to go by the book....

THE BOOK IS ONLY USED WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't walk around all day with "the book" under our arms....
"the book" that everyone is obsessed with does allow the mechanic certain leeway in certain instances.

If a flight attendant writes up an oven not getting hot enough, i can either defer that oven, or take a delay waiting for a thermometer to be found,, your choice..

Water not hot in several of the lavs? Warm not good enough??? No problem, I'll turn off all the water and people can use sani-wipes....

If that seat doesn't recline the required travel and comes up 1 inch less than "the book" states, then I will lock out the recline feature on that seat...Not a nice thing to do to a big shot first class passenger paying big bucks. Hell, not a nice thing to do on a full flight in cattle car seating....

If i can't use my decades of experience and judgement in just looking at a "scuffed" tire found on pilot's preflight, then I am just going to have to go back in the office and look up GPM limits....And if the computer system is down or just as slow as molasses, then that's what i'll do......your choice.

What you fail to realize is that if i don't use my judgement on "non-airworthy" items and have to refer to proper references, the delays will increase ten fold...
From my point of view, the airworthy items are ALWAYS followed verbatim...Time consuming research and troublehooting and repair..


Do you want me to block a seat out using tape? or does it matter to you if I delay the flight so that I go look for the fancy harness instead?

Your choice!

No Hopeful, what you are not understanding is that some people out there have no real clue on how we maintain the aircraft. All they see is and read is a lot of (FOLLOW THE BOOK, BY THE BOOK ONLY) and the only time they see it is during rough times like this. This is what non-airline people say, "Why don't the mechanics follow the manuals all the time". It's not me because I know exactly what your saying.

 

[Bob Owens]

Theres no denying that for many years pulling paperwork in itself was considered a Job action in itself, in fact back in 2000 a manager from LAX testified to that. I recall an incident years ago at LGA where a mechanic was assigned to change a LE Slat actuator on 727 through trip. When the mechanic who had never done the job before statrted pulling up the paprework he was rerimanded and told to stop wasting time and get the job done as they didnt have much time. He complied and around 10 minutes before departure came in and told his CC that he couldnt figure out how to get the actuator out of the cavity, he said he tried every which way and he could not squeeze the piston in. The crew chief said (What do you mean squeeze the piston in, dont you know that you are supposed to extend the LE, take out the bolt then retract the LE? The mechanics reply was "NO but I would have if I had the paperwork wouldnt I?"

The fact is following the paperwork even on tasks that we've accomplished repeatedly is no longer an option. It never was an option as far as the FAA was concerned but it was an expectation by management. Now management says officially that they no longer have that expectation, apparently this change has not been completely accepted at the lower levels yet but that doesnt change the fact that if you get caught you are on your own as far as the company is concerned, and the manager who pressured you will swear up and down that it never happened, that you acted on your own.

 

[Hopeful]

No Hopeful, what you are not understanding is that some people out there have no real clue on how we maintain the aircraft. All they see is and read is a lot of (FOLLOW THE BOOK, BY THE BOOK ONLY) and the only time they see it is during rough times like this. This is what non-airline people say, "Why don't the mechanics follow the manuals all the time". It's not me because I know exactly what your saying.

That is what I am trying to explain....Too many people here assume mechanics don't always follow the book...I am trying to inform people if we followed EVERY minor task to the letter, delays would increase ten fold..THEN we would be accused of job actions. Notice I said MINOR task....I cited a few examples in my previous post.
I could just picture the announcement now...."LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS THE CAPTAIN....WE ARE GONNA BE DELAYED HERE FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES BECAUSE MAINTENANCE CAN'T LOCATE THE PRETTY SEAT LOCKOUT HARNESS.....SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE."

I ask you, would it be ok for me to "not go by the book" and use tape with a DO NOT USE PLACARD?????????????

 

[FWAAA]

That is what I am trying to explain....Too many people here assume mechanics don't always follow the book...I am trying to inform people if we followed EVERY minor task to the letter, delays would increase ten fold..THEN we would be accused of job actions. Notice I said MINOR task....I cited a few examples in my previous post.
I could just picture the announcement now...."LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS THE CAPTAIN....WE ARE GONNA BE DELAYED HERE FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES BECAUSE MAINTENANCE CAN'T LOCATE THE PRETTY SEAT LOCKOUT HARNESS.....SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE."

I ask you, would it be ok for me to "not go by the book" and use tape with a DO NOT USE PLACARD?????????????

Exactly my point, Hopeful. You and others have posted before over the past nine years of this website's existence that everyone in the industry knows that mechanics could never possibly follow the book to the letter each and every day because very few flights would get off the ground. If you've done something several times before, you don't have to have the manual in front of you the next time you do the same task. Everyone on the planet understands that reality. The tech at the GM dealership doesn't have to retrieve a manual and do any studying before changing the oil and oil filter on my car. I assume that for most of your tasks, the same is true - you've done it before and you don't have to read the manual to do it the next time. Sure, there may be tasks that you have not fixed before - and thus 'going by the book" would be professional regardless of the status of contract talks.

So why call attention to it during contract negotiations and risk being successfully sued for an illegal job action?

 

[Hopeful]

Exactly my point, Hopeful. You and others have posted before over the past nine years of this website's existence that everyone in the industry knows that mechanics could never possibly follow the book to the letter each and every day because very few flights would get off the ground. If you've done something several times before, you don't have to have the manual in front of you the next time you do the same task. Everyone on the planet understands that reality. The tech at the GM dealership doesn't have to retrieve a manual and do any studying before changing the oil and oil filter on my car. I assume that for most of your tasks, the same is true - you've done it before and you don't have to read the manual to do it the next time. Sure, there may be tasks that you have not fixed before - and thus 'going by the book" would be professional regardless of the status of contract talks.

So why call attention to it during contract negotiations and risk being successfully sued for an illegal job action?

And the company wants business as usual and MORE from the workforce. If they have been accustomed to business as usual, then the only way they can understand the frustration of the membership is when they see an increase in delays in those items that were previously dealt with in a more acceptable time. maybe the company needs to see more delays and deferrals and out of service aircraft because the letter is followed per the book that THEY wrote..
Apparently, the company scoffed at our overwhelming NO VOTE and continue to insult us with a regressive counter offer.
The membership showed their frustration by a 2-1 rejection...and the company brings back a worse piece of crap? What do you suggest we do, keep meeting until 2015? 2020?
They have total dismay for us.

As far as being sued, all we have to do is quote "the book", the one the company wrote and let's see what transpires before a judge.
the only job action that might be ceases is NO OT.!

What't the company going to tell the judge?????????????? YOUR HONOR, THE MECHANICS NORMALLY DON'T GO BY THE BOOK WHEN THINGS ARE GOOD, AND YES WE KNEW ABOUT IT, BUT HEY, WHAT THE HECK, YOUR HONOR?

 

[Bob Owens]

Exactly my point, Hopeful. You and others have posted before over the past nine years of this website's existence that everyone in the industry knows that mechanics could never possibly follow the book to the letter each and every day because very few flights would get off the ground. If you've done something several times before, you don't have to have the manual in front of you the next time you do the same task. Everyone on the planet understands that reality. The tech at the GM dealership doesn't have to retrieve a manual and do any studying before changing the oil and oil filter on my car. I assume that for most of your tasks, the same is true - you've done it before and you don't have to read the manual to do it the next time. Sure, there may be tasks that you have not fixed before - and thus 'going by the book" would be professional regardless of the status of contract talks.

And you would be wrong, we are supposed to pull the paperwork every time no matter how many times we've done it before. In fact you have to pull it up right before doing the task, you can not use an old copy. This is because the manuals are constantly revised.Years ago we just had to have it accessable but not on us, now the FAA wants to see it on our person.

The fact is that the MM is the MM and its not written for line operations and if a mechanic were to follow every reference its doubtful that anything would get done in a timely manner. Nearly every task would start out with a mechanic with an ohmmeter making sure the aircraft is in fact grounded, not just hooked up to a grounding cable. The FAA will write up a guy if the aircraft isnt grounded, they typically dont write them up for not verifying that the aircraft is in fact grounded, but they could.

As the MD-80 wiring debacle revealed there is no set standard, there are differences in interpretation and application. One FAA inspected may say its OK while another may say its not.

This is the enviornment we work under, so if the mechanic decides to start his task with an ohmmeter (after he verifies that the calibration is up to date) he is within his rights to do so, but even the FAA may look at it as a job action, it would be considered splitting hairs,, unless of course they were having an action of their own and had the intention of writing them up for it, like with the MD-80s.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
This is the enviornment we work under, so if the mechanic decides to start his task with an ohmmeter (after he verifies that the calibration is up to date) he is within his rights to do so, but even the FAA may look at it as a job action, it would be considered splitting hairs,, unless of course they were having an action of their own and had the intention of writing them up for it, like with the MD-80s.

I don't think it could be consdiered a job action by anyone since we've all had mandatory computer-based training re: VER BATIM reading of the MMs.

The conversation maight go like this:
"The company told us to and now, you're saying not to? Under what authority can anyone override the company procedures and directives? Did the CBT really not mean what it said, ie, is it open to interpetation with respect to corporate or federal convenience?"

The company overreacted so thoroughly to the wiring fiasco they set unwanted precedents for themselves re: "verbatim" and other procedures.

The worms have been let loose - the only way to get them back into the can is to acquire a larger can - sometimes, that doesn't work, either.

Question, Bob - why do you argue with idiots that don't work in aviation? We will always be wrong to them and I've accepted that - perhaps you should also.

 

[Bob Owens]

Question, Bob - why do you argue with idiots that don't work in aviation? We will always be wrong to them and I've accepted that - perhaps you should also.

Ego I guess. I dont consider FWAAA an idiot and I took pleasure in correcting him because as we know he has a HUGE EGO.

Ten years ago AA obtained a TRO against Local 562 that said that we were not to work by the book. I got into an accident while that TRO was in effect that would have probably not happened if we were working by the book. In the hearing the manager asked me why I didnt follow the proceedures per the GPM, I replied that I followed the proceedures that have been in place since I transfered to JFK and the company had an injunction in place that mandated that I follow that proceedure and not go by the book. If I had resorted to following the GPM it would have taken longer and that would have put me in violation of the TRO. The hearing was over. I wrote the Judge a nasty letter detailing the fallout of the error of her Judgement, I never got a reply.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Ego I guess. I dont consider FWAAA an idiot and I took pleasure in correcting him because as we know he has a HUGE EGO.

Ten years ago AA obtained a TRO against Local 562 that said that we were not to work by the book. I got into an accident while that TRO was in effect that would have probably not happened if we were working by the book. In the hearing the manager asked me why I didnt follow the proceedures per the GPM, I replied that I followed the proceedures that have been in place since I transfered to JFK and the company had an injunction in place that mandated that I follow that proceedure and not go by the book. If I had resorted to following the GPM it would have taken longer and that would have put me in violation of the TRO. The hearing was over. I wrote the Judge a nasty letter detailing the fallout of the error of her Judgement, I never got a reply.

Over-inflated egos are always better dealt with by silence.

 

[Bob Owens]

Over-inflated egos are always better dealt with by silence.

Better? Perhaps, but not as much fun!

 

[Interested]

Guess what I'm trying to say is take someone who has no idea on how we maintain our planes. They read mechanics post (follow the book, by the book only, etc...), they ask Why follow the instruction now and not all the time.

In the example Hopeful gave about blocking out a seat, which would look more professional to the passengers:
taping it off with duct tape and a streamer saying do not use or the proper way even if it took a small delay? But then just about everyone on the plane would think duct tape is the proper way, then go home and tell everyone how we used duct tape to block a broken seat.

 

[whoop whoop]

Exactly my point, Hopeful. You and others have posted before over the past nine years of this website's existence that everyone in the industry knows that mechanics could never possibly follow the book to the letter each and every day because very few flights would get off the ground. If you've done something several times before, you don't have to have the manual in front of you the next time you do the same task. Everyone on the planet understands that reality. The tech at the GM dealership doesn't have to retrieve a manual and do any studying before changing the oil and oil filter on my car. I assume that for most of your tasks, the same is true - you've done it before and you don't have to read the manual to do it the next time. Sure, there may be tasks that you have not fixed before - and thus 'going by the book" would be professional regardless of the status of contract talks.

So why call attention to it during contract negotiations and risk being successfully sued for an illegal job action?

FWAAA, you couldn't be more incorrect. As an aircraft mechanic, the FAA requires us to have the MM every time we go out and perform a job, task, whatever you want to call it. The reasoning behind it is they do not want us to do anything by memory, that is when mistakes happen. For example, even though I have done 5,000 service checks, I am still supposed to read the paperwork so I don't get to confident/complacent and miss something important.