IAM Withdraws NMB Election Application

[WeAAsles]

P.S. WT. Every link I've provided in the past only continues to prove one thing. You are a habitual and constant LIAR. Lieing is a sin too BTW.

 

[townpete]

Thank GOD I work for American Airlines. Oh thank you so much GOD that you pointed me in the right direction in this industry.

"Thank you GOD"

That's nice, you should invite your fellow snowflakes like Kev, 700UW, and all the other pro union troglodyte's to your ghetto airline where their stench is appreciated.

 

[Kev3188]

Continued advocacy to point out issues that need or should be corrected is all you can do Kev. At least when you walk out the door you can hold your head up high and say that you "tried" Even better of course would say "accomplished"

All you can do is all you can do, right?

I like this carrier, and I like where we're going. Like most people advocating for change, I just want to see a good thing become even better for the people making that happen. IMO that can't happen within the current system.

 

[Kev3188]

Broad brush version:

Anti-worker:

That's nice, you should invite your fellow snowflakes like Kev, 700UW, and all the other pro union troglodyte's to your ghetto airline where their stench is appreciated.

 
 
Pro-worker:

I like this carrier, and I like where we're going. Like most people advocating for change, I just want to see a good thing become even better for the people making that happen.

 

[WeAAsles]

All you can do is all you can do, right?

I like this carrier, and I like where we're going. Like most people advocating for change, I just want to see a good thing become even better for the people making that happen. IMO that can't happen within the current system.

Without an enforceable contract administered by whoever all positive changes can turn on a moment's notice. There needs be no vote and no court process to make those changes occur in an instant.

If a contract is a bad thing why does Richard Andersen and many others feel the need to have one at Delta? If Richard Andersen is ever let go by the BOD his "Contract" will dictate the terms that he must be compensated for that departure.

 

[WorldTraveler]

pro-worker and pro-company are no more difficult to say in the same sentence for some of us....but we can't let the union movement sell its wares without noting the obvious facts that DL's union represented peers at other airlines are WORSE off in pay and in how many employees were cut in BK.

those are facts. for those who are willing to see facts and not throw around union propaganda

Tell that to Doug Parker and the stellar AA management team that doesn't seem to see things the way you do. They have sent a clear and powerful message that they will respect their employees right to CHOOSE without interference.

So much for your Cult-ture.

Bravo Doug, BRAVO.

why would Doug interfere in a process that has left his union represented employees the LOWEST PAID of their big 4?

Of course he won't because the TWU has been AA's best tool for cutting labor costs.

 

[WeAAsles]

pro-worker and pro-company are no more difficult to say in the same sentence for some of us....but we can't let the union movement sell its wares without noting the obvious facts that DL's union represented peers at other airlines are WORSE off in pay and in how many employees were cut in BK.

those are facts. for those who are willing to see facts and not throw around union propaganda


why would Doug interfere in a process that has left his union represented employees the LOWEST PAID of their big 4?

Of course he won't because the TWU has been AA's best tool for cutting labor costs.

Your personal favorites tell a different tale.

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/American.html

And I suspect 2015 full data will tell the tale of an even greater disparity? (Of course excluding the Roulette Wheel known as PS, if someone doesn't have any Medical issues)

LIAR

P.S. AA has been on a hiring tear as of late. In my Station I can't even keep up with all of those Orange vests.

LIAR

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can actually look at AA's annual and quarterly filings to calculate employee costs because it represents THIS YEAR.

AA also is now composed of US which still reports separately.

AA employees on average make less than their peers at all of the other big 4.

and high rates of hiring will bring average salaries down. Considering that DL and WN have been aggressively hiring for years and still manage to pass AA's very senior workforce, it is all the more remarkable how much higher DL, UA, and WN's average compensation is for its employees.

and profit sharing IS a big reason why. Your hero Doug doesn't believe in it because it would increase what he has to pay his people. The evidence is overwhelming that DL and WN employees who have hefty profit sharing gain a major portion of their compensation in profit sharing which AA simply doesn't provide in any other form.

 

[WeAAsles]

you can actually look at AA's annual and quarterly filings to calculate employee costs because it represents THIS YEAR.

AA also is now composed of US which still reports separately.

AA employees on average make less than their peers at all of the other big 4.

and high rates of hiring will bring average salaries down. Considering that DL and WN have been aggressively hiring for years and still manage to pass AA's very senior workforce, it is all the more remarkable how much higher DL, UA, and WN's average compensation is for its employees.

and profit sharing IS a big reason why. Your hero Doug doesn't believe in it because it would increase what he has to pay his people. The evidence is overwhelming that DL and WN employees who have hefty profit sharing gain a major portion of their compensation in profit sharing which AA simply doesn't provide in any other form.

Shall we compare my compensation since 2002 with those of other airlines to get a feel of our differences in total compensation all the way up till the AA BK when yes (finally) I recieved cuts to my Pension, medical and retirement packages?
 
A decade ago, American Airline was one of the industry cost leaders, along with Southwest Airlines. Both operated with a cost per seat-mile lower than their national competitors.  They were the “last man standing” after several competitors (United, Delta, Northwest, USAir) all went bankrupt in 2002-05. But after each of those bankruptcies, American’s competitors gained significant cost advantages:

• They were able to rework existing union contracts and either shed (United, USAir, Delta) or defer (Northwest) some pension obligations

• They were able to merge with (or be acquired by) rivals, gaining significant economies of scale as they consolidated routes and operations

As a result, American went from cost leader to cost laggard, with above-average employee costs (by one estimate, $800 million per year in additional labor costs) and sub-scale operations. In November, the airline declared bankruptcy, and earlier this month it announced plans to cut 13,000 jobs.

http://www.inc.com/karl-and-bill/a-lesson-on-cost-from-american-airlines.html

Oh and thanks to the merger with US those job cuts did not occur and this September I will go up on the industry averaging to $25.25 while the BASE top wage for DL will still be $24.81. And I personally believe my medical benefits are substantially better.

And then of course we have to figure out what will occur when we get our JCBA and the growth from there?

Overall I will absolutely and gladly stack up my career against my DL hired counterpart from 1995 till I retire in 12 years and am POSITIVE my career compensation will measure far more than his.

Remember again, Christians should not lie. It's frowned upon pretty severely even if you do say "Forgive me Father for I have sinned"

 

[WorldTraveler]

save bringing religion into the discussion.


The facts are black and white; trying to beat someone over the head to deny the facts that you want to use unilaterally is despicable.

AA is now AA and US. It IS the same company whether it still reports under different identifiers to the DOT.

On average and in one workgroup after another, AA employees make less than their peers at DL using the very data that you have used.

Since 2013, the most recent average salaries by workgroup, AA went thru BK and then in 2014 began to sign contracts to gain JCBAs that wiped out a lot of the cost savings - and profit sharing - while it hit record levels at DL and WN.

Unless you want to say that AA, DL, UA, and WN have lied ot the SEC, AA spends less per employee on salary, benefits, and compensation per employee than DL, UA, and WN.

and that information is THIS YEAR accurate.

 

[WeAAsles]

save bringing religion into the discussion.The facts are black and white; trying to beat someone over the head to deny the facts that you want to use unilaterally is despicable.AA is now AA and US. It IS the same company whether it still reports under different identifiers to the DOT.On average and in one workgroup after another, AA employees make less than their peers at DL using the very data that you have used.Since 2013, the most recent average salaries by workgroup, AA went thru BK and then in 2014 began to sign contracts to gain JCBAs that wiped out a lot of the cost savings - and profit sharing - while it hit record levels at DL and WN.Unless you want to say that AA, DL, UA, and WN have lied ot the SEC, AA spends less per employee on salary, benefits, and compensation per employee than DL, UA, and WN.and that information is THIS YEAR accurate.

Since 2013? lol. A year and a half isn't going to cut it against my 20 year career bub. Do you want to compare some guy who did a measure of their career in RR against mine?

I'll concede that currently there absolutely are DL rampers who make more than I do. 35% of the group there is FT correct? Are they all topped out as well? So what's that percentage of people topped out FT at DL? 30%, 25%, 20%, less?

Still got me my "Frozen" pension too BTW.

 

[WeAAsles]

And I will not save bringing religion into the subject because you are a well known habitual LIAR. And that is a sin that God can see right through you and judge.

You're writing your own book about yourself there, not me.

 

[WorldTraveler]

all DL employees, PMDL and PMNW have frozen, not terminated pensions. it is the UA and US employees who lost their airline pensions.

And RR wasn't designed as a career. If someone stayed in RR for a career, they have intentionally given up the opportunity to convert.

I'm certain anyone can find employees at any airline that make more than others; the issue is averages. Based on averages, the ranking among the big 4 airlines is WN is the highest, DL next, then UA, and AA including US.

2013 is the most recent data at a workgroup level. in 2014, DL employees doubled their profit sharing and got additional pay raises - an increase in compensation of 10% or more. DL also hired a bunch of new people - probably more than any other airline.

DL's payroll expenses plus profit sharing increased more than any other airline.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

all DL employees, PMDL and PMNW have frozen, not terminated pensions. it is the UA and US employees who lost their airline pensions.

And RR wasn't designed as a career. If someone stayed in RR for a career, they have intentionally given up the opportunity to convert.

I'm certain anyone can find employees at any airline that make more than others; the issue is averages. Based on averages, the ranking among the big 4 airlines is WN is the highest, DL next, then UA, and AA including US.

2013 is the most recent data at a workgroup level. in 2014, DL employees doubled their profit sharing and got additional pay raises - an increase in compensation of 10% or more. DL also hired a bunch of new people - probably more than any other airline.

DL's payroll expenses plus profit sharing increased more than any other airline.

 
Well based on "averages"  UAL maintenance has beaten Delta in 16 of the 19 years  covered in the MIT ADP you favor so much.
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/MX/Average%20Annual%20Wages%20and%20Salaries%20-%20INHOUSE%20MAINTENANCE%20PERSONNEL.htm
 
So while Delta MX may indeed be currently compensated at a higher rate than UAL, its clear by this report that overall BY FAR the UNIONIZED Mechanics at UAL have faired FAR better in Wages & Salaries
 
BTW - As UAL MX is currently in negotiations, it shouldn't be long before we surpass DAL MX .......again.

 

[WorldTraveler]

that same data shows that UA maintenance shrunk by 1500 people between 2012 and 2013 and UA's outsourcing percentage is up to 52%, the highest of the big 3, as of 2013. UA was down to just over 4000 mechanics before the merger with CO, doubled it with the merger and has cut ever since.

Just like WN, UA has managed to pay relatively few mechanics quite well but they outsource over half of their maintenance - and it is growing.

just like the UA rampers, UA mgmt. is succeeding at decimating its unionized labor groups and unions are doing nothing to stop them.