IAM Withdraws NMB Election Application
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #499
I'm not even sure your aircraft numbers are aircraft but it doesn't include all regional carrier aircraft because US has turboprops.
but you still don't get that fleet size doesn't matter.
Available seat miles produced does.
AA produces a higher percentage of its system ASMs by its regional carriers - and the number of regional carrier ASMs is going up.
DL's connection carriers produce a smaller percentage of ASMs on regional carriers and the number of ASMs goes down.
btw, the 717 arrives in LAX tomorrow and takes over a number of flights that were previously operated by Ejets, including about half of LAX-SFO flights.
No route could be a better example of how DL has used the large RJs to develop the route only to have it turned over to mainline. The other half of the LAX-SFO flights will come as soon as DL gains more 717s.
Dozens of cities are seeing mainline service for the first time in decades because of DL's fleet strategy which has involved reducing RJs and increasing mainline.
No other airline has done a better job of bringing work back to mainline and before the ink was even wet on AA's new contracts with APA and APFA, it was increasing the number of large RJs and reducing mainline growth.
#UNIONFAIL
but you still don't get that fleet size doesn't matter.
Available seat miles produced does.
AA produces a higher percentage of its system ASMs by its regional carriers - and the number of regional carrier ASMs is going up.
DL's connection carriers produce a smaller percentage of ASMs on regional carriers and the number of ASMs goes down.
btw, the 717 arrives in LAX tomorrow and takes over a number of flights that were previously operated by Ejets, including about half of LAX-SFO flights.
No route could be a better example of how DL has used the large RJs to develop the route only to have it turned over to mainline. The other half of the LAX-SFO flights will come as soon as DL gains more 717s.
Dozens of cities are seeing mainline service for the first time in decades because of DL's fleet strategy which has involved reducing RJs and increasing mainline.
No other airline has done a better job of bringing work back to mainline and before the ink was even wet on AA's new contracts with APA and APFA, it was increasing the number of large RJs and reducing mainline growth.
#UNIONFAIL
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #501
It also doesn't include profit sharing but the IAM wouldn't DARE include that because if they did, DL's total compensation jumps far above its network carrier peers and is getting within striking distance of WN who has put its CBA negotiations on ice.
#UNIONFAIL
#DLEMPLOYEEWIN
#UNIONFAIL
#DLEMPLOYEEWIN
robbedagain
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- Oct 13, 2003
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PS should not be included in the compensation as PS is generally a 1 time pay out do you actually understand that???? meanwhile yesterday the IAM announced contract at NK which includes job security wage increases etc
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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except it has not been a one time payout, robbed. Further, as much as you want to defend AA's choice not to include profit sharing as part of the compensation program, DL, UA, and WN all have it along with other airlines.
AA is the lone major US airline that doesn't want to pay profit sharing and that can directly be tied to the fact that Parker wants to pay his people as low as he can get by with rather than believing that frontline employees really do have the ability to drive profits - which they do.
DL employees have accumulated more than $3 billion in profit sharing over the past 5 years.
DL like the rest of the US airline industry is profitable and the framework exists for that to remain so for a good long time.
profits and profit sharing are the norm.
Given that DL employees gained 16.5% profit sharing
The real question is how much of the compensation should be in profit sharing. WN has basically targeted about 10% while DL employees could see as much as 20% of their compensation in profit sharing - probably time to roll some of that PS into base pay.
Profit sharing is not going away and it is and will be a key part of compensation for all of the airlines that value the contributions of their employees and recognize that employees really do have the ability to make profits happen.
It's notable how hard the IAM works to exclude DL profit sharing from its compensation comparisons and precisely why DL employees know they can't trust what the IAM says when they are willing to exclude as much of DL employee compensation as they do.
DL's profit sharing program is one of the richest not just among airlines but in all of corporate America.
AA is the lone major US airline that doesn't want to pay profit sharing and that can directly be tied to the fact that Parker wants to pay his people as low as he can get by with rather than believing that frontline employees really do have the ability to drive profits - which they do.
DL employees have accumulated more than $3 billion in profit sharing over the past 5 years.
DL like the rest of the US airline industry is profitable and the framework exists for that to remain so for a good long time.
profits and profit sharing are the norm.
Given that DL employees gained 16.5% profit sharing
The real question is how much of the compensation should be in profit sharing. WN has basically targeted about 10% while DL employees could see as much as 20% of their compensation in profit sharing - probably time to roll some of that PS into base pay.
Profit sharing is not going away and it is and will be a key part of compensation for all of the airlines that value the contributions of their employees and recognize that employees really do have the ability to make profits happen.
of course they do... esp. since the IAM and other unions have come nowhere close to negotiating profit sharing anywhere close to that large at any airline.
It's notable how hard the IAM works to exclude DL profit sharing from its compensation comparisons and precisely why DL employees know they can't trust what the IAM says when they are willing to exclude as much of DL employee compensation as they do.
DL's profit sharing program is one of the richest not just among airlines but in all of corporate America.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #507
I know there is PS at SOME PMUS groups... but it won't be a part of the JCBAs because that is what the unions agreed to as part of the merger and what PMUS employees have doesn't come close to what DL or WN employees are receiving.
you can't defend it on the one hand and then attack it on the other.
you can't defend it on the one hand and then attack it on the other.
Kev3188
Veteran
I've seen lots of very public discussion(s) of PS.BABABOOY said:
Let's also remember that at NW, the IAM CBA had a PS formula remarkably similar to what we have now, so it's not like being union & having a PS program are mutually exclusive...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #509
no one is arguing that unions and PS can't coexist just that the AA unions made a major strategic fail by letting Parker sweet talk them into not including PS as part of the JCBAs.
anyone that has been the least bit attuned to the industry should have known that consolidation has resulted in enormous improvement to earnings at the airlines and AA/US was going to do the same thing.
Given that DL employees have received far larger amounts of PS than the increases which the unions negotiated for AA employees and since AA and DL are the only two of the big 4 that are meaningfully increasing compensation for its workers, the fact that the IAM repeatedly is sweeping DL's PS programs under the rug despite the fact that they have been wildly successful and popular is why the IAM can't be trusted to tell the truth.
The simple fact is that DL employees have gained enormously because of PS. The IAM needs to acknowledge that and come up with a strategy to beat it - not deny that it exists. It is the union movement's continuous failures to address and respond to the changing business and economic climate and to win despite it that has left unions as weak as they are in America. If unions are going to win the hearts and minds of Americans again, they have to come up with winning solutions not denials of what others have accomplished.
IT's also worth noting that NW was running an operationally reliable airline by the time of the merger and had also had navigated BK fairly well with respect to employee engagement once the AMFA question was resolved. NW employees were engaged with the company and wanting to share in NW's success which is why in a lot of ways there was lots of pre-merger commonality that helped DL and NW to merge as smoothly as they have.
btw, DL's presentation at the Deutsche Bank industrials conference is here http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/Delta_Airlines/db-industrialsbasicmaterialsconference6415-v001t25a0p/3
and DL expects strengthening in their financials over the next few years so the notion that profit sharing will shrink is a myth. The only way that PS will shrink is if a chunk of PS is rolled into scale increases.
anyone that has been the least bit attuned to the industry should have known that consolidation has resulted in enormous improvement to earnings at the airlines and AA/US was going to do the same thing.
Given that DL employees have received far larger amounts of PS than the increases which the unions negotiated for AA employees and since AA and DL are the only two of the big 4 that are meaningfully increasing compensation for its workers, the fact that the IAM repeatedly is sweeping DL's PS programs under the rug despite the fact that they have been wildly successful and popular is why the IAM can't be trusted to tell the truth.
The simple fact is that DL employees have gained enormously because of PS. The IAM needs to acknowledge that and come up with a strategy to beat it - not deny that it exists. It is the union movement's continuous failures to address and respond to the changing business and economic climate and to win despite it that has left unions as weak as they are in America. If unions are going to win the hearts and minds of Americans again, they have to come up with winning solutions not denials of what others have accomplished.
IT's also worth noting that NW was running an operationally reliable airline by the time of the merger and had also had navigated BK fairly well with respect to employee engagement once the AMFA question was resolved. NW employees were engaged with the company and wanting to share in NW's success which is why in a lot of ways there was lots of pre-merger commonality that helped DL and NW to merge as smoothly as they have.
btw, DL's presentation at the Deutsche Bank industrials conference is here http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/Delta_Airlines/db-industrialsbasicmaterialsconference6415-v001t25a0p/3
and DL expects strengthening in their financials over the next few years so the notion that profit sharing will shrink is a myth. The only way that PS will shrink is if a chunk of PS is rolled into scale increases.
robbedagain
Veteran
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of course neither csa nor mtr nor fsa have not begun jcba talks yet... things can change so don't take what dp says with a grain of salt he may have said it before but that don't mean things change but on the other hand even if he should forgo ps to the employees what will he give us and the other groups higher wages etc personally Id rather have higher wages than ps bec if the company should fail to make money in 3 of the 4 quarters then no ps
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