IAM Withdraws NMB Election Application

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Nice spin!

 

[topDawg]

yes, there will be an investigation. So I was wrong. Again 

FIFY

 

[WorldTraveler]

you missed all of the times where I said there would be multiple investigations in order to answer all of the questions that some people want answered.

think you can find them?

 

[topDawg]

you missed all of the times where I said there would be multiple investigations in order to answer all of the questions that some people want answered.

think you can find them?

"I hate to break it to you, Kevin, but there won't be an investigation unless it is an inhouse IAM investigation to figure out how they were set up to fail by their own team and why it wasn't caught."

of course, like normal, you say something then completely change your tune....

 

[WorldTraveler]

feel free to catalog them all, but Kev specifically commented about the IAM survey which the NMB has no interest in and the NMB won't touch or create a ruling on employee access to DL's HR systems.

so yes, there will be an investigation. There will actually be several- they just won't be coordinated.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 

yes, there will be an investigation.

It just won't answer ALL of the questions

you missed all of the times where I said there would be multiple investigations in order to answer all of the questions

 
 

 

[Kev3188]

"I hate to break it to you, Kevin, but there won't be an investigation unless it is an inhouse IAM investigation to figure out how they were set up to fail by their own team and why it wasn't caught."of course, like normal, you say something then completely change your tune....

Nobody should be surprised; that's S.O.P.

 

[southwind]

Wonder if the IAM is double and triple checking all the ramp cards....I'm sure they would hate to play the fool twice!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Nobody should be surprised; that's S.O.P.

let us know when the DOJ tells us if/who messed with the IAM's survey or how the IAM survey used DL employee numbers.

 

[700UW]

Crewed Talk: Massive Fraud Suspected as IAM v. Delta Drama Deepens, But Who’s Behind This Epic Whodunit?
BY SARAH STEEGAR ON APRIL 14, 2015COLUMNS, CREWED TALK
 
I had a feeling last week’s topic was just beginning… For those of you who need a quick refresher, last week I did an overview of the big news that the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), who had been organizing a union drive to represent Delta Air Line’s flight attendants, had withdrawn its application.
 
Well…
 
On Thursday, the National Mediation Board (NMB) referred the matter to the Department of Justice (DOJ). I thought the situation was unprecedented before, but now there’s no doubt about it. While everyone speaking about the subject (including myself) was noticeably cautious on reporting the original announcement, it is now clear that the shape of this “strange turn” is that of suspected, full-on fraud.
 
How Do We Know It’s Fraud?
 
Putting aside what may have been said to the media explicitly (for which I see no original sources), a better understanding of the process is useful.
 
In order to trigger a vote, a union and its supporters collect signed cards from those desiring representation. Once they have gathered enough, the union turns those cards over to the NMB.
 
The company to be (potentially) unionized then provides a complete official list of signatures for allemployees in that work group to the NMB. The company will not know who did or didn’t sign a card. It’s the NMB who compares the company-provided signatures to the signatures on the cards.
 
While original reports mentioned “incomplete information” on the cards, the date and signature are the only essential pieces of information for a card to be valid. Thus, this is a matter of fraudulent signatures — which, by the way, is prosecutable as a federal crime in all 50 U.S. states.
 
Both the pro-union and anti-union union camps have open Facebook pages where the public can support and follow their respective campaigns. On the pro-union page, I have seen a number of flight attendants fret about their cards being thrown out due to outdated signatures, as the forms a company draws the signatures from for NMB submission could be several years old and signatures change over time.
 
For this case to have been turned over the DOJ, clearly we’re talking about more than the usual mismatch. Further, for a 16 percent margin of support to have been moved toward “borderline” interest, we’re talking about thousands of fraudulent signatures.
 
This is officially serious news.
 
Who Does the Finger Point To?
 
The IAM might seem like the obvious culprit here, especially since, as a rule, any union “carefully vets” the cards it turns over to the NMB in order to guard against ones that could be tossed out in the process. They should have caught thousands of fraudulent cards in advance, right?
 
Except!
 
The IAM doesn’t have access to the official list of signatures that the company plans on submitting, meaning it would have nothing to work off of. Essentially, when the IAM ”vets” cards, all it can do is check for duplicates and a name with a dated signature. It’s the NMB that matches the cards against official signatures.
 
Another question to ask: If all the cards are destined for scrutiny by the NMB, where’s the temptation to stuff the ballot box, so to speak? From what I understand, the NMB doesn’t generally check all the cards. They do it by randomly pulling a percentage for spot-check verification. Still, that’s a gamble for the fraudster — especially if the truth is they don’t have enough support to win a vote for representation, which is (one reason) why the pro-union side has a few theories of its own on why the company could be behind all this.
 
With this much understood on the process, it’s a bit easier to see the theories that are developing at the end of several pointed fingers, which we’ll delve into deeper next time. Stay tuned, FlyerTalk, next week we’ll take a closer look at some of the theories each side has on this bizarre whodunit, why they did it and what (if any) evidence exists.

 
 

 

[CMH_GSE]

700, the article you just posted talks about how the IAM can't know who's on the list the company will submit, fine. But
The IAM can and certainly should check to see if each card is from a Delta FA, that is not impossible for them to check on their own, sorry, just not buying that the IAM could not have done a better, more thorough job of vetting those cards before they were submitted.

Getting the Delta FAs to vote would have been a huge feather, the fact that they couldn't get enough people on their side of the fence to be "all in" with vetting that effort says all I need to know about the IAM. They just don't have the juice neccesary to get the gig, period.

 

[700UW]

You still dont get it, the IAM cant verify a card, that is the NMBs job.
 
The IAM isnt entitled to the signature list nor a seniority list.
 
The IAM would along with DL would have gotten the eligibility list AFTER the NMB declares an election.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and it still doesn't change that pro-IAM supporters who are DL or other airline employees (who are indeed active in the DL FA representation campaign) could be the ones that turned in the fraudulent cards.

It still makes no sense nor is there any proof that the company was behind it as soon have suggested and it also says that unless the IAM starts fingering people or the DOJ figures out who signed the fraudulent cards, the responsibility for the application and the card drive rests with the IAM, even if there might not be evidence they committed fraud.

so, the IAM could be in the position of having to lay guilt at the hands of some of its own supporters in order to save the IAM's neck. or at least not challenge the DOJ's findings if that is what they find.

I still believe it is far more likely that non-IAM airline employees and other "lay activists" committed the card fraud.

 

[700UW]

Good Morning All!
 
Yesterday we had a meeting with IAM officials, Tim Klima, Joe Stassi, James Carlson, Richie Johnsen, and Bill Rody.
We brought all of the FA concerns to the table. We were all asking the "Who, What, Why, When questions.
 
So in a nutshell this is what we learned.
 
Who? No one knows
 
Why? Our Employer knew if we went to an election, they would lose.
 
When? We are regrouping and plan to start our new card drive 5-5-15. In order to file on 4-6-16. If not before.
 
We have a new, improved card that will be able to be accounted for. Details will follow.
The whole process of evaluating the cards was called into question due to reasons that are not being conveyed to the IAM.
 
The NMB can and did whatever they wanted to in deciding who's card was deemed "questionable". They were matching signatures from a list that was provided by our Employer, IAM was not allowed to see said list.
 
The NMB has NEVER gone through EVERY card in ANY card drive in the past. That was clearly made to happen by pressure from our Employer.
 
So that's what we learned yesterday.
 
Is it a completely satisfying explanation of the process?
 
I don't know.
 
But I do know and can tell you all that IAM is 100% completely behind us and they have never wavered from this.
WE at this company want a CONTRACT and IAM wants to get us there.
 
Look for an important mailing from them very soon.
 
Most importantly, let's not lose our momentum and let's stay together! This campaign is very much still alive and we have the numbers to win. And our Employer knows this!!!
 
So put on your pins, tags and keep talking!! Stay Strong!!!
‪#‎RightTheWrong‬https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/rightthewrong?source=feed_text&story_id=10152865632455888
 

 

[metopower]

Just back from a trip. NO pins. NO iam bag tags. Ask around and not one person was inclined to support iam . They blamed the iam for the failure . Some wondered if the company just out smarted them. The sentiment was it was over.