IAM Withdraws NMB Election Application

[Kev3188]

as do you.

it's called "pathologically paranoid anti-company"

 
Not catchy enough. Try again.
 

Honestly you should be pounding IAM to initiate the investigation as they are the ones most harmed. They made this nefarious claim so it stands to reason if they have been truly wronged, they need to be the ones to kick it off.

Otherwise all these wild accusations are just that. Wild.

I think someone should investigate all involved parties.

The people most harmed are the DL F/As who just had their right to vote stolen from them.

 

[townpete]

Not catchy enough. Try again. I think someone should investigate all involved parties.The people most harmed are the DL F/As who just had their right to vote stolen from them.

Kinda premature to call it stolen. We have a petition withdraw over some fuzzy claims. And now all that's happening is wild speculation running the gamut of conspiracy theories.

A simple FOIA request would reveal what NMB saw, but that's going to take a while.

 

[BABABOOY]

A simple FOIA request would reveal what NMB saw, but that's going to take a while.

 
 
 
This administration doesn't "Do" FOIA's.......
 
 
BTW Crickets from the IAM....... 

 

[townpete]

I do like the latest conspiracy claim: IAM was paid off by the evil corporation to scuttle the vote drive.

Ooooofa

 

[Kev3188]

Kinda premature to call it stolen.

Call it what you will; either way, the FAs have been harmed.

 

[townpete]

This administration doesn't "Do" FOIA's.......
 
 
BTW Crickets from the IAM.......

Good point on both counts.

So far the position from the IAM is they want to put it in the past and move on.

Very odd behavior if they feel confident they were harmed by outside card shenanigans.

 

[townpete]

Call it what you will; either way, the FAs have been harmed.

Don't you agree then that the party who made the claim and most harmed, should be the ones to go on the offense and find out what happen?

For them to want to quickly put it past them and move on is rather odd indeed.

 

[Kev3188]

Don't you agree then that the party who made the claim and most harmed, should be the ones to go on the offense and find out what happen?

Of course.

I would love to see more rank & file FAs demanding answers.

I would also like to see a bright light shone in all corners so we can all see exactly what is transpiring...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Not catchy enough. Try again.
 

I think someone should investigate all involved parties.

The people most harmed are the DL F/As who just had their right to vote stolen from them.

the only thing that has been stolen is the peace and quiet of DL employees who don't want a union and have made that point over and over and over again - only to have shills like you assert that they have had something taken away from them.

what they REGAINED was a little peace and quiet for a few months while the losers (you included) are forced to sit on the sidelines and lick their wounds.

The IAM screwed up, Kevin.

you can go to your grave looking for someone to blame- that is why the word "pathological" is absolutely appropriate.

call the DL mental help line and tell them you can't deal with allowing DL employees to make their own choice - which IS different from your own.

Don't hide behind "something was stolen" other than your ability to dictate to others what you want.

 

[townpete]

Of course.
I would love to see more rank & file FAs demanding answers.
I would also like to see a bright light shone in all corners so we can all see exactly what is transpiring...

Pressure should then be applied to IAM for a clear proof explanation of what happen. If they are unable to or try to scuttle such an investigation, then they may have something to hide.

 

[topDawg]

  
So gloating is only acceptable if your pro union?
And I'm sure the IAM has already went back to the drawing board and like I said, we'll be here before long having these same discussions shortly, again, whether its the IAM or some other union trying to get in......too many wallets!

Anyone can gloat, 
just like anyone can be stupid. 
 
all I am saying is I wouldn't be stupid. (and FWIW 99% of the gloating done by people, anti-union(me) or pro-union is done simply because the way one member acts toward us and labor.) 
 

 
 

oh it does mean something.

It means DL will be doing some housecleaning.

we'll see who is gloating then.

Ah more threats. 
 
Let me give you a small hint before someone turns you into the DOL, what you are threatening is highly illegal. I would guess that Delta would be very thankful if you wouldn't post stupid and illegal threats to people in such a public way. 
 
just some friendly advice 

Give me a an effing break. Talk about a bunch of thin skinned pearl clutchers!

After having to listen repeatedly all the GLOATING about getting 60% signed cards OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... How many times on a daily basis was that football spiked????

All the GLOATING about what this, that and the other fantasy benefits that were promised after the 2nd coming of Jesus, I mean IAM. Heh!

Suck it up buttercups, if you can't handle the other side spiking the football, then go grab a blanket and a pacifier then crawl back into your crib.

I'm sorry, but two things junior 
1) I don't give the smallest of craps, at the end of the day, if the FAs vote in a union. The gloating on here by most are people who just enjoyed the butt hurt of one member who constantly beats down labor and even threatens our jobs. 
2) I am anti-union for my work group and very, very, very anti-IAM. (but again, not an FA, so really could careless if they vote in a union) 
 
Hell its probably better for me if they don't vote in a union. No need for the company to take money out of my pocket to pay them. 
 

Just face it YOU can't handle the truth. You have way too much invested in this. You have been advocating since the day DL purchased NW. I told you many times from the FA's that I work with and know outside of work ( and they are NW) that they signed cards just to stop being harassed by the pro Union people. I watched how they collected cards and passed out pins. It was almost like a bad night at a bar for some girl.... He just can't get the hint I'm not interested.

I don't think, at the end of the day, Kev gives a rats ass what the FAs really do. 
 
I will assume he hopes for the best for them, but if they vote in a union or not really has no effect on him. (in fact it is probably better, if the FAs start bettering themselves, you know like you get the chance to do, then we get to watch and less money to flow around) 
 
 
and signing cards just to get them off of you happens, however fraud is a completely different (and illegal) thing. Not saying that is what your friends did, but I also know FAs who signed their names to cards to get the IAM people to STFU(or the old "I already signed one") 
but clearly someone was signing cards and committing fraud. I am curious which side it was coming from(or both) as it wouldn't shock me from either group at this point.
 
one sad thing about these union drives is no one can be adults about it. If you like your union I am happy for you meto, I don't want a union. Kev does. None of us are right or wrong, but it is really sad that so many people, on both sides, tell us we are wrong, threaten us and badger us.
getting off my soapbox now.  

I don't have a dog in the hunt, but something doesn't look right to me.

If the IAM didn't have a good source of employee info, then I find it hard to fault them for fraudulent cards.

If the Facebook screenshot is any indication of the lengths the pro-company people were willing to go to, then it's not out of the question that there were some intentionally fraudulent cards filled out, especially if they knew that the IAM couldn't fact check them.

this..... 
 

  
What Kev is asking for is a full investigation, hoping that this was company interference , thus demonizing the "Evil Corporations", furthering his and others pro-union agenda!

Answer this Kev, would you rather know, before you vote, if the IAM were guilty of falsifying cards or does it really not matter, as long as a Union, any union, gets voted in asap?

And if, the IAM were found guilty of falsifying cards, would you still vote them in?

how do you even come close to getting that? Kev asks a very good question, how and why did this happen? That is all. 
 
I know it sounds crazy, but Kev is rational enough to lay blame where its due. 
 

I'm calling for accountability no matter where it may lay, and not one of you has the courage to even agree in principle that it's the right thing to do.

Amazing.

You are wasting your time with those two Kev. One doesn't have a dog in the fight the other is going to blame the IAM no matter what. 
 

 
As a hater of unions, collectivism and all things socialist, I gotta agree with Kev here.  While union incompetence (past and present) probably played a major, leading role in the failure of this unionization effort, I would be shocked and amazed if DL management just sat on the sidelines as a spectator (no pun intended).
 
If I were an employee I would be curious whether there were shenanigans or just pure incompetence on the part of the IAM.  The findings would certainly have an impact (positive of negative) on future unionization efforts.
 
Furthermore, I'm a little surprised that somebody that allegedly purports for the Whole Truth would be so dead-set against some sort of investigation - but then again it speaks volumes about the person's agenda on these forums.

I don't think the company had anything to do with it. 
 
The pro-company employees......... yeah i could completely see that. (could also see it from the anti-company side too) 
 

.....and we all know that if the NMB didn't give the IAM a heads up, then
we would be hearing about charges against the IAM for a fraudulent card
drive.  (not the first time a Union has been accused of this) 
and anyone with half a brain knows that someone leaked this info to the IAM
to save face.  The IAM dodged a big one here.  Thanks to the NMB

err that isn't completely true. 
 
The IAM or any union isn't going to be hit with fraud if, for example, a bunch of pro-company FAs faked cards. IMHO it is very interesting that the NMB did nothing. Curious what they know that we don't..... 

 

[Kev3188]

 Ah more threats. 
 
Let me give you a small hint before someone turns you into the DOL, what you are threatening is highly illegal. I would guess that Delta would be very thankful if you wouldn't post stupid and illegal threats to people in such a public way. 
 
just some friendly advice 

+1
 

how do you even come close to getting that? Kev asks a very good question, how and why did this happen? That is all. 

Exactly. They're reasonable questions to be asking, and it's reasonable to be expecting answers.
 

I know it sounds crazy, but Kev is rational enough to lay blame where its due. 

Thank you.
 

 

The IAM or any union isn't going to be hit with fraud if, for example, a bunch of pro-company FAs faked cards. IMHO it is very interesting that the NMB did nothing. Curious what they know that we don't.....

Aren't we all...

 

[southwind]

Why would I do that when I don't know the whole story?
What I do know is not only is this system broken, but something went very wrong leaving more questions than answers. What I also know is that at least one "anti" DL employee issued a "call to arms" (her term) encouraging our coworkers to fill out the IAM survey using other people's information.
I am calling for answers/accountability/resolution, and only ONE (!) person has even remotely agreed that it's the right thing to do.
And afaik, they do not even work for our airline.

 

That's great but, noticed you still haven't addressed my question, so I'll ask again.
"Would you still vote the IAM in, if they are found guilty of card fraud in the FA's drive?"
And yes, I believe there should be an investigation but, be careful unions peeps, you might not like what you find!

 

Common sense tells me that IAM got a heads up before hand that their cards were shady.
Why was all of sudden all the IAM daily propaganda mailings ground to an abrupt halt?
Then we get a bizzaro claim a few days prior about some hacked survey that they themselves put out. A claim that was so obviousl full of crap, you could see right through it.
They choose to get out in front of a total PR disaster and pull their petition as a threat thumbs down would have been disastrous to their activist base.
Seems like all the howling about fraud, etc should be coming straight from IAM, and yet they are silent. One would think if they are convinced they have been wronged, they would take the offensive position. However they seem to be hunkered in a defensive position.
What does that tell you?

Yep! Noticed the pro union peeps are avoiding the above post, like the plague!

 

[Kev3188]

If DL itself was found guilty of card fraud, will you resign?

Look, neither entity will be found guily of anything. It will be people working at their behest... and that assumes any evidence of intentional wrong doing even exists in the first place.

That said, if (a big if, obviously) it tunred out that there was intentional wrong doing, and it wasw condoned on a widespread level by labor leaders, I would not abide by that, nor would I endorse them unless/until sweeping reforms occurred.

I still contend that anyone who has willfully committed ay wrong doing needs to be held accountable- pro, anti, NMB employee, F&H employee, whomever. We already have one coworker who encouraged her fellow employees to violate DL policy by using other people's names & PPRs to "hack" an IAM survey. How the company handles that will be very telling.

 

[WorldTraveler]

save us the papal bull, your holiness the dawg.

We heard the same thing about Kip and he's still gone.

DL is smart enough to be able to find cracks in the mascara and unbleached undies and throw people out on those grounds.

and, yes, Kevin really does care a whole lot about further unionization at DL and doesn't care which group does it. In his mind, employees aren't capable of speaking up for themselves so they need some organization to speak for them, regardless if that organization has a track record of accomplishing nothing except take people's money.

Kev absolutely cares - to try to pretend otherwise is just plain silly.

and the reason why so many people are piling on Kevin right now is because of his inability to admit that the IAM has screwed up in one element after another of this representation - and that is AFTER his and their failure to admit that there are tens of thousands of DL employees who DO NOT WANT A UNION and that has been said over and over and over again.

Kev and the IAM can't accept that reality and instead try to hide behind "they defrauded us" when all that has been done is that democracy has indeed won.


Kev entered his post at virtually the same time I did but we are making progress.

I have repeatedly noted that DL has indeed handed out discipline in labor related issues (fights) that have affected DL.

but let's be clear, Kevin.

You have YET to call for punishment against the IAM or against the pro-IAM DL employees who gave DL employee numbers and phone numbers to the IAM.

that is the root problem.