Iam Strike

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

That is not Richard Seltzer’s current position and he personally told me that the court has great latitude. Moreover, when a judge makes an order it becomes law.

Again, this has never been tested, thus what makes the IAM’s Counsel an expert on cutting edge law? S.1113 of the bankruptcy code does not prevent a strike, but the company’s motion would and then the RLA would apply, if so ordered by the court.

In a recent article in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, there was an excellent discussion on the subject. The article said:

Legal experts say it remains unclear whether unions may strike because no airline labor contracts have been rejected since federal bankruptcy laws were rewritten in the 1990s.

"It's a cutting-edge question, and the law is not clear," said Joseph O'Leary, a labor lawyer with McDermott Will Emory, a Boston law firm.

O'Leary has represented defunct LTV Steel, Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp. and other companies during bankruptcy reorganizations.

Workers in every industry -- except railroads and airlines -- are covered by the National Labor Relations Act, which permits employees to strike if their contracts are terminated, O'Leary said.

Railroads and airlines are treated differently from other industries because their labor strikes can affect public safety, O'Leary explained.

Olson, who has represented companies operating under the Labor Railway Act for more than 20 years, said he believes it would be difficult for US Airways' unions to strike.

If Mitchell rejects US Airways' labor contracts, the airline likely would serve unions with a notice that, under the Labor Railway Act, preserves the status quo. Employees would be forced to labor under terms of the company's last offer -- in this case, $1 billion in wage and benefit cuts -- until they negotiated new collective-bargaining agreements, Olson said.

If the unions strike or attempt to strike, the company could get a court injunction stopping them, Olson said.

Click Here for complete story.

The article hyperlinked is an interesting discussion on the subject and again, this is uncharted waters, where nobody truly knows what will happen following what appears to be likely "imposition". It's truly sad that the national union is more important than the workers and the IAM is willing to let their members get a worse deal than was necessary.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

The IAM has been through this before and your own attorney even wrote a paper or book on it. So I seriously doubt he told you that.

And Mrs Sharon Levine is a bankruptcy expert in the airline labor field.

And you can find a million articles that support what you say and I can do the same.

US_Airways_Vote_No has posted links to the subject numerous times where is states a union can withdraw it services.

But both IAM groups are in negotiations trying to reach a T/A, Fleet Service is at CCY and the M&R Group is in caucus, look for more information later today.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you cross a picket line your a SCAB.

I'm afriad that what this thread is really about, is what relevancy does being a scab have in our society/economy.

If you belive that your fellow employees at this job, or the management at your next job and your co-workers there, could care less about you being a SCAB, then it becomes a viable option.

If you believe that you, and what you do, are not worth what the company is paying you. That your spouse and children can, and should, do with less. Then cross the picket line.

If on the other hand, being a SCAB puts you in a position that limits your future ability to earn a living, (then again, you already believe that your over paid) then you should think twice about crossing anyones picket line, and play the plays that the coach of the team your on, calls.

[post="235417"][/post]​

In the minds of loyal union members, there is nothing lower than a scab. But unionism in this country is, unfortunately, at an all time low since its inception. Unions are weak and getting smaller each year. While there is stigma attached to being a scab, 90% of the working people in this country just don't care, and the other 10% just don't have the numbers and clout to matter any more.

Therefore, I must disagree that being a scab puts one in a position that limits your future ability to earn a living. It's just no longer true. In the airline industry, many of the best jobs are either already in non-union shops, or the union shops are just not worth working for anymore.

It will always be demeaning to be called a "scab," but many scabs will weigh the options and invoke the old schoolkid remedy known as "sticks and stones."

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

I truly hope there are last minute deals with all of the IAM units, which is better for all concerned.

In regard to Seltzer, he not only told me in person, but he told the entire ALPA MEC in "open session". The fact is that nobody knows what can happen with an imposed agreement on Thursday morning, but one thing is for sure, it will be interesting to see the results.

Moreover, it does not matter what opinion the attorney has. In the end the only thing that matters is the court order, and in this case Judge Mitchell has granted virtually every company motion.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[EyeInTheSky]

In the minds of loyal union members, there is nothing lower than a scab. But unionism in this country is, unfortunately, at an all time low since its inception. Unions are weak and getting smaller each year. While there is stigma attached to being a scab, 90% of the working people in this country just don't care, and the other 10% just don't have the numbers and clout to matter any more.

Therefore, I must disagree that being a scab puts one in a position that limits your future ability to earn a living. It's just no longer true. In the airline industry, many of the best jobs are either already in non-union shops, or the union shops are just not worth working for anymore.

It will always be demeaning to be called a "scab," but many scabs will weigh the options and invoke the old schoolkid remedy known as "sticks and stones."

[post="235474"][/post]​

Part of the duty of belonging to a union is to stick together. It amazes me that so many people that have benefited from union contracts are now vacillating whether or not to cross a picket line. A union member should NEVER cross a picket line...period. If one wants to be a scab then let they reap what they sow.

 

[ClueByFour]

It's interesting because, as 700UW points out, there is nothing in 1113 or 1114 that addresses the issue of self-help.

Absent that, there is ample precedent that contract abrogation removes the "status quo" (see Eastern and Continental). Whichever idiot said "the company will serve an RLA motion of status quo" is clearly smoking something, as the status quo will have changed. A look at http://www.bnabooks.com/ababna/railway/2003/rlabank.doc is in order (again). Particularly "....the right to strike has never even been challenged in the post-rejection context."

What's truly funny about this is that it won't even take a strike. Based on what happened in PHL, all one really needs is a really good flu to strike the IAM-M and -FSA groups, and the operation goes under.

I'm guessing that the court will perhaps allow the IAM to put the "last-best" company offer to a vote, and abrogate when the vote fails. Then the IAM-M walks, and that's the ballgame.

 

[Winglet]

Labor leaders have said that US Airways' high concession demands preclude negotiated settlements, leaving workers feeling that they have nothing to lose regardless of whether a strike is legally permitted.

Oh, yea, slap a "back to work you ungrateful swine" order on 'em. That'll do it. Since the company's real goal it to abrogate the contracts and stall for enough enough time to outsource almost everything anyway, I think most IAM members will see they have almost nothing to gain by prostrating themselves before Lakefield's judge.

Unless the gubment plans on sending Gestapo and maybe company thugs out to houses, a restraining order will scare only a few weaklings.

Lakefield and Bronner have the proverbial guns to their own heads, the hammers are cocked and they're putting pressure on the triggers.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

If union employees can be ordered back to work, can they ignore union orders and stay off the job on their own recognizance and send a message to Mgt, politicians and the courts?

I know they'll be threatened with termination but can this airline afford to terminate everyone?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

It's this "status quo" concept that I find interesting. Could there be any legal advantage for U to aver that the 'status quo' under RLA is the 1113e contract? I know that might seem too cute by half, but if U management states to a fed district judge (or whomever has the jurisdiction to injoin self help) that the 'status quo' is IAM negotiating for permanent contracts under 1113e AND U remains ready to continue negotiating under the RLA time clock could that be a possibly winning argument? There very well may be case law that establishes that. But an argument that a contract with wholly NEW terms is 'status quo' might be harder to sell. Now, I understand the irony of putting forth a state that is declared temporary under bankruptcy law as the status quo under the RLA, but when that state is the alternative to ceasing to be, maybe there would be some logic in that. IAM would not be forever screwed over. It would still have recourse, just not immediate recourse. In my experience judges like approaches that allow for remedy. There is no remedy if U liquidates.

 

[pitguy]

I will never hire a scab.

 

[usfliboi]

Pitguy, do you think youd ever be in a position to hire anybody???? Like i said , this will become a legal issue... and as far as im concern, i wish IAM would withdraw their services, (as 700 puts it) and all ow the 85% of the mechs we have who work their butts off, to continue to do their job, and do it well.

 

[700UW]

1113 e is temporary, an abrogation is 1113 c. And it sounds like the company is trying to cherry pick.

 

[A320 Driver]

I will never hire a scab.

[post="235511"][/post]​

Guess this is meant to infer that you are in or will be in a position to hire someone.

Interesting.

A320 Driver

 

[700UW]

And if the IAM does, there is no way the company can replace over 8,000 mechanics, stock clerks, utility, fleet service and catering overnight.

The AFA International will honor the lines and the place is done, over and stick a fork in it.

You are dreaming fliboi.

 

[deano]

Now your telling people appropiate topics to post! What might you be afraid of? The 50% that aren't losing their jobs? The 50% that probably won't support their so called union? Pray tell.........

[post="235433"][/post]​

Funny the clowns, Itrade, PlaneJane, Mr-Airflame on and on don't work with this people who ARE the IAM therefore have NO clue of the mind-set that is ripe for what E-Trons is saying, SHUT IT DOWN. All you people thinking otherwise watch and see. Like dell said, it's even in the news about everyone booking away and if the IAM gets it in the shorts by the judge, it's over if for no other reason, people will NOT fly U, simply will not.