Kev3188
Veteran
Ah.
I'm not sure they're anywhere the general public can see them?
Why would you take their pictures?
I'm not sure they're anywhere the general public can see them?
Why would you take their pictures?
IAM Stepping Up campaign
- Thread starter 700UW
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I've taken pictures of labor activists in the past both on picket lines, Verizon IBEW demonstration directly outside my workplace summer 2011 and often approach them to strike up a conversation. I had a great time at the solidarity march outside the MA statehouse in 2011 too bad I didn't make it to WI, it would have been awesome to watch. I enjoy hearing their stories. I had a great conversation with a UNITE Here business rep about the value of representation at the Andaz (Hyatt) West Hollywood a couple years back.Kev3188 said:
Josh
Kev3188
Veteran
I'm glad to hear it. Conversations with real people looking to affect real change are almost always great.
I also want to say-I am respectful of their right to have a picket and demonstrate, although I disagree with their perspective. Just a question while we are on this-as a labor supporter do you always honk when you pass a picket line? Never understood why people give an endorsement without educating themselves and understanding the issue.Kev3188 said:
Josh
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
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May be more folks are more educated than u think qhen it comes to honkin the horn in support of pro labor may be those who do honk the horns could be union pro folks etc
Kev3188
Veteran
Yep. Usually raise my fist too.737823 said:
Not sure that people need to understand a specific group's issue(s) in order to support them. Maybe they support the idea of people standing up for themselves in the workplace? Just a thought...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- #38
probably has more to do with making it to AMS... I can assure you it would not be with bad intentions if I even happened to run into them... and the chances of that happening are actually not terribly high - if I even get to AMS or Paris or LHR or anywhere else.
If people are working on labor campaigns, I presume they aren't ashamed of what they are doing - but I don't publish fotos of anyone except for myself.
totally agreed....
even though some seem to think I am anti-labor, I am not. I support people who can help stop the economic polarization that is taking place in society.
I have commended people like Kev for being leaders in truly recognizing the challenge facing the American people while also calling on the labor movement to dramatically change the way it works since their strategies are clearly not retaining members or getting the job done in the USA.
My life's focus is on other aspects of business and meeting human needs but I absolutely support and admire those who take different strategies.
My participation in this discussion is to ask why there is a need to mount a representation campaign in AMS - and I'm still not sure I understand why AMS was chosen among all cities including in the US - and then to comment on the articles that connect highly risky drug and alcohol use with rather predictable results and union representation.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #39
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/03/5-reasons-why-we-love-labor-unions-and-need-them-more-than-ever/
Are you trying to insinuate they do drugs while in AMS?
Gimme a break, your really reaching now, guess you dont remember the Pilots, FAs and Mechanics are all subject to random drug testing.
And when they are they promoting the IAM they are at the Airport in AMS in secured areas.
Are you a flight attendant for Delta?
Its really none of your business where the IAM and its Delta Airlines Flight Attendants are located when promoting the IAM, they chose AMS because there is a large presence of FAs who transit through there.
It doesnt have to be a crew base for anyone to be there and promote the IAM.
Try again.
Are you trying to insinuate they do drugs while in AMS?
Gimme a break, your really reaching now, guess you dont remember the Pilots, FAs and Mechanics are all subject to random drug testing.
And when they are they promoting the IAM they are at the Airport in AMS in secured areas.
Are you a flight attendant for Delta?
Its really none of your business where the IAM and its Delta Airlines Flight Attendants are located when promoting the IAM, they chose AMS because there is a large presence of FAs who transit through there.
It doesnt have to be a crew base for anyone to be there and promote the IAM.
Try again.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #40
700,
I have repeatedly said that
1. I am concerned about the economic polarization that is taking place in the US. Middle class America is finding it harder and harder to economically win compared to other economic groups. I do not agree with all of the reasons that are often put forward for why this trend is occurring or for all of the solutions that are being put forth either. But there are real issues that all sides are noting and they all need to be considered. I respect people who recognize the issue and are willing to work to change the trajectory of the American middle class. Most elected officials at high enough levels to influence macroeconomics as well as union officials are disconnected from the reality of the people they should or want to represent and cannot offer meaningful solutions.
2. The decision regarding representation at Delta is for active DL employees to make – if they reach the necessary levels to trigger additional elections. DL listens to its employees and knows what it needs to do in order to not see unionization increase, a goal that DL has long had precisely because DL has long demonstrated that its current workforce is more productive and more adaptable to change than its peers unionized workforces. At the same time, DL has been very careful to make sure its economic success gets passed on to its employees who otherwise would most certainly be more inclined to seek more representation if they didn’t economically do as well or better than their unionized peers. But DL employees do fare as well or better than their unionized peers at comparable airlines.
3. If the decision regarding representation should be made solely be active DL employees, then anyone else besides active DL employees who participates opens the door to any other comments on this or any other public forum opens the door for any other comments. I am more than happy to leave the discussion to active DL employees but I am not going to sit on the sidelines of the conversation when union organizers such as you throw out arguments which have factual and logical disconnects.
4. Continuing that train of thought, if the IAM is organizing at AMS behind secure doors, then neither you or I will participate. But I still have to ask why the IAM needs to mount a campaign on foreign soil in a city where DL has no crew base. If the point is a city where plenty of DL FAs transit, then there are dozens of cities overseas and in the US where that criteria can be met. I suspect the reason – even though no one here has mentioned it – is because labor unions in the Netherlands have greater rights than they do in the US, that KLM’s unions are willing to try to help, and that the IAM thinks they are further from DL mgmt’s ability to influence the process. However, since every DL employee has access to secure areas of AMS solely on the basis of DL’s operations there, I don’t think it is too much of a stretch for DL to also speak to those employees. IIRC, one of the FA union campaigns involved organizing efforts in the crew hotel at NRT where DL also set up its own lemonade stand. Point being is that you and I won’t participate in that discussion but neither will anyone else other than DL FAs but if you want to bring that conversation onto this forum, then we can discuss it here.
5. I still am trying to understand how you think the excessive use and combination of sleeping pills and alcohol have anything to do with representation, esp. when you also cite a story including an AA union-represented FA who also uses sleeping pills as part of her/his layover routine after long work days. When anyone pops multiple sleeping pills and consumes multiple drinks esp. outside of their own home and then plan to operate a motor vehicle or interact with other people, no one should be surprised if an occasional person runs into significant trouble just like what the FDA warns. Life is full of challenges; how anyone copes with it is the issue. Specific to the crew rest issue, there is still no evidence that DL FAs are treated any differently than other US carrier FAs.
If you want to take public a conversation that should involve only DL employees in the specific workgroups, then you should be prepared to discuss the logical flaws in the arguments that you and the labor movement make.
I have repeatedly said that
1. I am concerned about the economic polarization that is taking place in the US. Middle class America is finding it harder and harder to economically win compared to other economic groups. I do not agree with all of the reasons that are often put forward for why this trend is occurring or for all of the solutions that are being put forth either. But there are real issues that all sides are noting and they all need to be considered. I respect people who recognize the issue and are willing to work to change the trajectory of the American middle class. Most elected officials at high enough levels to influence macroeconomics as well as union officials are disconnected from the reality of the people they should or want to represent and cannot offer meaningful solutions.
2. The decision regarding representation at Delta is for active DL employees to make – if they reach the necessary levels to trigger additional elections. DL listens to its employees and knows what it needs to do in order to not see unionization increase, a goal that DL has long had precisely because DL has long demonstrated that its current workforce is more productive and more adaptable to change than its peers unionized workforces. At the same time, DL has been very careful to make sure its economic success gets passed on to its employees who otherwise would most certainly be more inclined to seek more representation if they didn’t economically do as well or better than their unionized peers. But DL employees do fare as well or better than their unionized peers at comparable airlines.
3. If the decision regarding representation should be made solely be active DL employees, then anyone else besides active DL employees who participates opens the door to any other comments on this or any other public forum opens the door for any other comments. I am more than happy to leave the discussion to active DL employees but I am not going to sit on the sidelines of the conversation when union organizers such as you throw out arguments which have factual and logical disconnects.
4. Continuing that train of thought, if the IAM is organizing at AMS behind secure doors, then neither you or I will participate. But I still have to ask why the IAM needs to mount a campaign on foreign soil in a city where DL has no crew base. If the point is a city where plenty of DL FAs transit, then there are dozens of cities overseas and in the US where that criteria can be met. I suspect the reason – even though no one here has mentioned it – is because labor unions in the Netherlands have greater rights than they do in the US, that KLM’s unions are willing to try to help, and that the IAM thinks they are further from DL mgmt’s ability to influence the process. However, since every DL employee has access to secure areas of AMS solely on the basis of DL’s operations there, I don’t think it is too much of a stretch for DL to also speak to those employees. IIRC, one of the FA union campaigns involved organizing efforts in the crew hotel at NRT where DL also set up its own lemonade stand. Point being is that you and I won’t participate in that discussion but neither will anyone else other than DL FAs but if you want to bring that conversation onto this forum, then we can discuss it here.
5. I still am trying to understand how you think the excessive use and combination of sleeping pills and alcohol have anything to do with representation, esp. when you also cite a story including an AA union-represented FA who also uses sleeping pills as part of her/his layover routine after long work days. When anyone pops multiple sleeping pills and consumes multiple drinks esp. outside of their own home and then plan to operate a motor vehicle or interact with other people, no one should be surprised if an occasional person runs into significant trouble just like what the FDA warns. Life is full of challenges; how anyone copes with it is the issue. Specific to the crew rest issue, there is still no evidence that DL FAs are treated any differently than other US carrier FAs.
If you want to take public a conversation that should involve only DL employees in the specific workgroups, then you should be prepared to discuss the logical flaws in the arguments that you and the labor movement make.
Kev3188
Veteran
Don't over think it. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one. This is one of those times.WorldTraveler said:
Also, there is "visibility" happening in most US bases as well...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #42
since the OP was about DL and KL FAs meeting to help with a DL representation strategy, the question of why AMS does indeed have validity. Since DL is so big at AMS, it wouldn't have been hard for those FAs to head back to the US and execute the strategy there if they were just interested in hearing a little advice, right?
Rather than go back and forth on this lets just acknowledge this is a free lavish vacation for the "grass roots" activists working on this campaign. Face it, they're spending existing IAM members money and the employees and their designees get to leach off DL using their pass privileges to pursue interests counter those of DL. (And perhaps GL folks got passes or even positive space travel on OALs too) So rather than discuss why they picked AMS and not CDG, NRT or any other large overseas station for that matter lets acknowledge those facts.
Josh
Josh
During the UA campaign the IAM and their organizers were very aggressive and met flights to engage the crew, followed them to their shuttles, hotels, cars, showed up unannounced at their homes, they clearly did not want to lose the dues, that's why my NLS F/A friends said. Fortunately they didn't make it past the doorman at their NYC building and a fellow union member told them to get lost!Kev3188 said:
Just one example of the IAM's fine conduct during the UA campaign:
http://unitedafa.org/docs/representation/080511_black_declaration.pdf
http://unitedafa.org/news/details.aspx?id=6400
Josh
Kev3188
Veteran
737823 said:
You're free to believe what you wish, but those aren't "facts" at all; they're your opinion(s)...
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