IAM Mech. & Related Thread

[PayParity]

None of what you posted has anything to do with what you said in your first post and what I asked you to explain with examples.

Don't worry I knew you wouldn't be able to answer. For one thing I knew it was not true about the CBA having all protections removed so I figured your statements in #2 were not true either.

 

[allstrike]

The costs are broken down and have been explained in the past, cant speak for the current.

Merger, acquisition and fragmentation protections are still in the CBA, the COC would be removed.

Cost have not been broken down and explained in the past.Not in any station Ive been in.

If the COC is removed what protections are there in case of a merger...etc please post em.

As far as space positive travel.How many cases have gone to arbitration in the past 20 yrs? Name them.
And out of those how many were grievances for the little guy like me.And out of those how many people had to fly all over the country for them.The only thing that goes to arbitration is what the union wants to go.The little guy always looses in step 2,in his or her station.This bull,and you know it.Frank his self has called down to foreman and said fire that sob,shop steward or not,BECAUSE (good stewards make waves)and the company and the union dont like it.

Call the lady in charge of the IAMNPF and ask her if you can work when your drawing retirement,she told 2 people no today,she also said the IAM will decide if your eligable or not.

Under federal law anything over 40 hrs a week is 1.5 time. work 4 doubles and see how it works out in your check,they take away 1/2 hr each double.Fed law says they cant do that. ( but under the railway labor act ) the company can do it. Because we voted on it,and guess what that was not broken down for anyone. work a 17 hr day and bring home 15.5 thanks to our union.And Mr Harberson of course.

So tell me its all clear and transparent.Bull :down:

 

[700UW]

If you read the CBA, the Merger and Fragementation language is still in the CBA, the only thing removed is the COC which would bring the wages back to Pay Parity.

HMO
401k
Doctor's Note
Numerous Employee terminations
Snapback Concessions 92
Airbus
COC

and many many more. And what about the employees who have third step hearings at differant stations? The GCs need to be there too.

 

[dexter]

As 700 has stated, negotiations require "give and take". Why are the mechanics and related willing to do this at this point? Is there something I am not getting? Why is it so important to reach a new TA, throw away bargaining a new contract in 2009? Why would someone "give away" right now ? For what, positive Union travel? I don't think so.

 

[allstrike]

If you read the CBA, the Merger and Fragementation language is still in the CBA, the only thing removed is the COC which would bring the wages back to Pay Parity.

HMO
401k
Doctor's Note
Numerous Employee terminations
Snapback Concessions 92
Airbus
COC

and many many more. And what about the employees who have third step hearings at differant stations? The GCs need to be there too.

I agree the union was aggressive in some matters like you state.The union also was just plain lazy and lied on others.
The GC's do need to be at the ones that reach 3rd step,that is reach it....how many dont that should.
Sounds to me like the space positive should be the unions fight with Parker not thrown in the mix,I think thats whats up setting people.

Now for the COC thats pay parity plus 1% in 2003.I dont know if every one knows what that is so Ill explain,parity is the average of the big 5 airlines mechs pay.Plus 1% thats what we would get in case of a merger accusation etc. Plus theres a 4% clause in there for each year after,the union can extend it for what 3 years.At 4%. There offering less than that now. Hummm I wonder what would parity plus 1 be today.Or next year. Itll be more than what we would be making at the end of this t/a wich isnt a t/a its a contract extention.

Its to throw the bone to a bunch of people and watch em run for it.Then get em all under one contract,with no protection.Article 3 is weak,real weak.Except for the COC wich has language in it that the company if merged will negotiate in good faith or it will go straight to mediation.There will be no 5 year wait.

As of jan 2009 talks will start,the contract is amendable in dec 2009.....if the company is not dealing in good faith in july 2009 it goes to mediation.Thats strong language.Is that staying in the contract.No......because this T/A will take it out.By extending this contract it voids this launguage.

No one at the union meeting is telling any one about this are they.Half the west side doesnt even have a copy of our US contract so how could they know.

If you just bring the 2 groups together we can work out a new contract.....ohh I forgot Parker can take stuff away from the west if you do that.

I told all of you 6 months ago the last thing this company wants is 2 work groups split the mechs and ramp thats 4 total and 4 contract in section 6 at one time.One or 2 should be in section 6 now.But then hey.... :down:

 

[john john]

As 700 has stated, negotiations require "give and take". Why are the mechanics and related willing to do this at this point? Is there something I am not getting? Why is it so important to reach a new TA, throw away bargaining a new contract in 2009? Why would someone "give away" right now ? For what, positive Union travel? I don't think so.

So tell us why?????

 

[av60]

The COC is the snapback provisions, it is one in the same.

The merger and fragmentation protections are still in the CBA.

Planemx, I guess you have never been in negotiations, have you?

They are give and take and compromise.

Would the union allow members to sit in and watch the negociation???

seems like the company and union are taking
and the members are giving

the members are being compromised for space positive travel, pension fund.

 

[PayParity]

for the COC wich has language in it that the company if merged will negotiate in good faith or it will go straight to mediation.There will be no 5 year wait.

No one at the union meeting is telling any one about this are they.Half the west side doesnt even have a copy of our US contract so how could they know.

Can you point out in Article 3 where exactly is that language you speak of regrding mediation.

Why don't they have a copy of the contract. NO computer? Too lazy? Sounds like a lot of guys that post here don't have a computer or can't read and/or comprehend because they keep posting about things that don't exist or exist and are not being removed. Or maybe they just playing their agenda?

Here you go get them informed with a contract.

 

[700UW]

Allstrike,

The 1999 CBA was negotiated with mediation and it took 4 1/2 years to obtain a CBA, going to mediation does not increase the chances of getting a CBA.

 

[Old Guy]

The parity +1% is on wages of the top 5 at the TIME of that language. :blink: So if left in there we could end up with a pay cut. Also the company won the grievance. so it's a moot point. Also if you go back to 1984 or so . We lost a station in another grievance that went to arbitration. The Labor protection THAT is ,and remains in the contract ,remains. Along with Alter Ego. You get to go with your work, or bump where your number will hold you. As far as retieing and going to work some place else. You will start at day 1. And I don't know of any plan that will let you collect unless you meet the age requirements. Unless you worked for the government with a 20 year and out.You can collect your 401. But you will pay 40% out in taxes. So to start over at 59 1/2 ,it had better be a huge raise.

 

[airplanes4sale]

Headline News 04 APR 08: USairways and IAM reach agreement. Yesterday union members from M&R at USairways once again ROLLED OVER and voted in favor of some T&A agreement that the IAM sold to it's membership. From our man on the street reporting live from Tempe, what do you have for us??

Reporter:"Well there's one hell of a party going on here in the parking lot at USAirway's Headquarters, I see DoUgIe talking to a few people, let's see if I can get up close. HEY THERE MR. BARKER, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS PLEASE!!"

Mr. Barker:" Sh!t, your not the police are you, it's just near beer?"

Reporter:" No, no just a reporter wondering how you got to IAM to vote yes to this BS T/A?"

Mr.Barker:" Is this what this is about, all I heard was free beer. Wait a minute there is someone from my N/C here, maybe he can answer your questions. HEY BILL F. COME HERE, NOW!"

Bill F.:" Yes Sir Mr.Barker, what can I do for you now?"

Mr. Barker:" I want you to tell this man how you got a yes vote."

Bill F." It's easy, we at the IAM like to keep it simple. We say we got you in the IAM pension fund, but we don't tell them , once you retire, you can't get another job in your craft. We tell them give up 50% of the Baby Bus work, and maybe we will put jobs in PIT. Things like that."

Mr. Barker:" Hey, I thought you won the Baby Bus work?"

Bill F.:" We did, but now it's gone, but I can fly Space Positive."

Reporter:" Any pay raises?"

Bill F." Hell yes, I take care of my West Brothers. If I didn't, they couldn't afford the new Medical Plan. Ha,Ha!"

Reporter:" You two are great together. That's all from Tempe, I need a beer.'

VOTE NO!

Ok, here is something for everyone to chew on. A friend of mine that works in the GSE shop in philly says that the uniform delivery guy told them that they have already cancelled uniform service in may. So does our vote really count at all or is this another one of those votes that we keep voting on until the company and union get thier way. My question is, do you think either one cares what we want!! they play us like idiots and we fall for it everytime. Have you ever heard of company management or union leaders that has ever given up anything in the last 10 years. I mean the union leaders want space positive travel even in thier retirement years. In todays world when times are tuff and they have the balls to even put that in the T/A agreement. We should say NO just for that reason alone. And if we just roll over and let them have thier way with us again do you think it will be any better in 2012. It will get worse and we will all be 5 years older and this company will probably still be making millionaires off of our backs. So if you feel this T/A agreement is something special then roll over and vote yes and i will see you in 5 years complaining about this company on this very message board. Good luck to all no matter what happens. hey you always have your health!!

 

[Planemx]

The COC is the snapback provisions, it is one in the same.

The merger and fragmentation protections are still in the CBA.

Planemx, I guess you have never been in negotiations, have you?

They are give and take and compromise.

What I am saying is that it is the snap back that is costing the $$$ - that is what the company wanted to remove. If it didn't add up to HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS they wouldn't have cared if it was left in the COC language. I enter negotiations every day I go to work.

 

[Onestep2flt]

I have only posted here a couple dozen times mostly because it is more entertaining to sit back and read other folks posts. I am also not elegant with my words so my posts are somewhat dry. I will post on this issue because I find it of great interest. So here is my take.

You have two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning, you are down by one and nobody is ready to hit one out of the ball park for a win.

Only two people so far that I can see have mentioned anything about the baby Bus work. To me, as someone on the outside looking in this is probably issue number one! I sat and rooted for you all to win the arbitration thinking it would go in favor of the company as these things always have a habit of doing. Low and behold, it was ruled in your favor. Now all of the sudden, giving away almost all of the work that was determined that was rightfully yours is not all that important!? I would think someone might be coming up with creative ways of trying to bring more of this work back in house.

Only a couple of you have brought up this IAM pension scheme. Do you really want you union to decide if you can gain other employment after you have left here.? Please read and ask questions on this one. It is my understanding if you retire from Airways and want to work you MUST receive the blessing of the IAM. They will determine whether to suspend you pension based on employment. This is any job. Does not have to be within your craft. (Think even the golden arches) This is per the contact lady at the pension plan place. Something to think about. What happens to the pension plan if you decide to change union representation? Some things to ponder for sure!

Change of control has been mentioned and does not seem to raise many brows. Think this is not important? Just ask all of the top Management aces at Airways why they just made adjustments to their contracts for change of control. Yes this was lost in Arbitration due to the technicality that there was no name change. However, what if US merges with the likes of UA, do you think the Airways name will survive? I think not!

How about medical? The west would be put under east medical plan. The west pays 1/3rd for medical coverage that is superior to east current coverage. Think that won't eat up that ten percent pay raise?

This is just a couple of issues in this contract. This is just the tip of the iceberg. If you are just looking at the pay raise don't forget that you get 3 percent in July next year. Also, section six could get off the ground next year where you would have an opportunity to make some real change. Don't sink with the titanic. Think long and hard about your vote, it is not just about a pay raise!!

Oh, lets not forget that your union always thinks you guys are confused. Don't allow this to happen. Everyone needs to vote regardless of whether you support or don't support the T/A.

Now, someone step up and swing already, my hot dog is getting cold..

 

[Planemx]

Allstrike,

The 1999 CBA was negotiated with mediation and it took 4 1/2 years to obtain a CBA, going to mediation does not increase the chances of getting a CBA.

4 1/2 years to reach a contract that was sought after to be fair for everybody or just one side? Or should I say not fair for the members....This TA is an insult to those who practice the art and craft of aircraft maintenance. It was a glossy orange carrot dangled in front of the East guys who got ram rodded and a slap in the face to the West.....both the union and the company run to the bank laughing all the way. If this passes, starting 04Apr more and more details will become transparent and the double talking/stalling and lying will be crystal clear. But it will be too late - you can't un-ring the bell, and we're off to the merger races with another concessionary contract signed thru 2011 before we can get shanked again by our beloved aim (if we're lucky to even survive the merger).

 

[Planemx]

"Take, cease paying," what ever you want to call it. If this gets approved every friday i lose 5%. That 5% is MY money put into an account with MY name on it.

Now if the iamnpf is such a good deal why couldn't the NC get us into it and leave our 401k alone?
I dont mind giving up space positve tickets for iam officals, if it gets me into the iamnpf.
that seems pretty cost neutral.

The iamnpf is a pyramid scheme......the new/continuing members paying the pension of the retired guys - since it seems to be underfunded, $1.00 per hour used to get you $74.57 per yr/vested svc back on table 3 and $78.30 on table 2 - if the TA passes that same dollar equates to you getting a whopping $46.98 (as shown in the NPF summary plan description). They increase the amount that has to be contributed and decrease the benefit. From table 2 to the current table 1 the benefit paid out monthly per yr of vested service has gone down 40%....this is only a 10 yr gap.

Yeah - great plan guys. At least my 401K has interest working in it's favor....I would have to do some wild investment gambles to lose 40% so fast.