I have had enough of the Teamsters!

[CorvetteMan]

Give it a rest -

We've been over this EXACT ground before - NO UNION - not AMFA, TWU/IAM, or the teamsters can FORCE an airline to expand its MX footprint. Clearly it can defend ( and should ) that which exists.

SWA mechanics & related headcount has increased since their certification in 2003 - and last I read they had recently secured additional work line(s) in Dallas I believe

Then why did the Association gain work at AA?

In 20 plus year AMFA secured only one new line of check in exchange for foreign outsourcing?

dude that’s a cop out. Most unions all have gained work except during the bankruptcy times.

AMFA negotiated for SEVEN years and gained zero work. As a matter of fact they only got their raise exchange for more foreign outsourcing.

Why didn’t AMFA gain the ETOPS work in HI like they said they would? And why didn’t they stop WN from outsourcing it and where is the lawsuit they said they file?

Press Release: Southwest Mechanics Threaten To Throw Legal Wrench in Airline’s Proposed Hawaiian Operations

October 24, 2017 -- Bret Oestreich, National Director of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), announced that the union will be filing legal action that could disrupt Southwest Airlines’ plan to initiate service to Hawaii in 2018. “Southwest Airlines has the lowest ratio of...

www.amfanational.org

 

[CorvetteMan]

Give it a rest -

We've been over this EXACT ground before - NO UNION - not AMFA, TWU/IAM, or the teamsters can FORCE an airline to expand its MX footprint. Clearly it can defend ( and should ) that which exists.

SWA mechanics & related headcount has increased since their certification in 2003 - and last I read they had recently secured additional work line(s) in Dallas I believe

They gained no work and let WN outsource more.
Only reason headcount increased was due to WN’s growth, Not AMFA negotiating more work.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

They gained no work and let WN outsource more.
Only reason headcount increased was due to WN’s growth, Not AMFA negotiating more work.

Then why did the Association gain work at AA?

Okay - lets hear it

What MX work did the association FORCE the company to give the union? List them by aircraft check type, location, shop by unit & location - cite your contractual reference that secures said work

Work from new aircraft doesn't count as you've already said AMFA can't claim it, and work from USAir and old IAM agreements doesn't count either both are just AA growing so no credit for twu/iam.

If you're gonna talk outsourcing well look at that ... the twu/iam association has some in their contract as well.

Also while AA might currently enjoy the most members in MX vs the rest of the industry, your MX group is nowhere near where it used to be - your numbers only recently increased due to the USAir merger.

Why didn’t AMFA gain the ETOPS work in HI like they said they would? And why didn’t they stop WN from outsourcing it and where is the lawsuit they said they file?

This is a fair question - As I'm not at SWA, I'll ask ...

SWAMECH - What is the story with the SWA MX rights to Hawaii ops ETOPS? Is it settled? If so how?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I believe the only reason it’s expanded at SWA is because they added more planes? Otherwise the fact is that AMFA as an entity is just too small to have any influence with anyone anywhere and as we saw at NWA can be decimated if the Company wants to do it to them. Of course with the availability of AMT’s to take the work from them through the RLA process.

Certainly you're not advocating that AMFA should've taken the last offer from NWA that essentially eliminated over half the MX group?

Its also worth noting the other unions that didn't just stand back and watch but actively worked against AMFA during the strike ... might have had a little bit to do with it.

AMFA was starting to gain some support but they blew it when they again went after the AA Groups. IAM was the one saying to everybody not to trust AMFA and they were right.

Don't trust AMFA? Coming from the iam? 🤣🤣🤣


As a union that actively tried to organize the MX scabs at NWA - DURING - the strike, they are the last place I'd look on matters of trust.

 

[WeAAsles]

Certainly you're not advocating that AMFA should've taken the last offer from NWA that essentially eliminated over half the MX group?

Its also worth noting the other unions that didn't just stand back and watch but actively worked against AMFA during the strike ... might have had a little bit to do with it.




Don't trust AMFA? Coming from the iam? 🤣🤣🤣


As a union that actively tried to organize the MX scabs at NWA - DURING - the strike, they are the last place I'd look on matters of trust.

Absolutely not but the question should be asked what made NWA Management go after that AMFA Group so completely brutally? Why didn’t any other Unions at the Airline want to stand up to help them? And no I’m not going to buy the simplicity of AMFA just not belonging to the AFL/CIO.

But from what I read the AMFA leadership also did not let the members have a final say on their fate with a vote? My cousin in Maine worked for Twinkees in the BCTGM. They were voting on a Bankruptcy agreement that was taking them down from originally $21 per hour to $12 per hour after other concessions over the years. The IBT (Drivers) were not taking as big a hit and wanted the BCTGM to vote yes like they had done. The BCTGM voted no and the Twinkees Company we know went out of business and eventually sold to another Company. All the Unions including the IBT were gone.

Not my call to make if what happened was right or wrong but my cousin and his group decided their ultimate fate (Along with the Company as a whole) AMFA members should have had that final vote as well and I could have had more respect for that story. That’s also honestly why hundreds of their members scabbed and went to work for Delta. Also very strongly I’m sure why AMFA won’t go anywhere near Delta.

AMFA has constantly tried to raid both the IAM and the TWU. Of course the IAM doesn’t trust them and frankly hates them. My TWU tried to put out the olive branch which at the time I supported. Then AMFA stabbed them in the back. What’s that story? The Scorpion and the Frog.

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[WeAAsles]

As a union that actively tried to organize the MX scabs at NWA - DURING - the strike, they are the last place I'd look on matters of trust.

This comment is ridiculous. Why should they not have after AMFA took members away from them? AMFA was the one who opened the door to everything being fair game by raiding and to this day have never stopped that practice. It’s a part of their DNA.

 

[eolesen]

SO... it's OK for other unions to go after AMFA if they think they've failed their members, but it's not OK for AMFA to go after the TWU or IAM after they've failed their members?

Seems that if a union is failing it's members, the members should have the option of replacing them. Period. Full stop. That's the entire premise of elective representation....

 

[WeAAsles]

SO... it's OK for other unions to go after AMFA if they think they've failed their members, but it's not OK for AMFA to go after the TWU or IAM after they've failed their members?

Seems that if a union is failing it's members, the members should have the option of replacing them. Period. Full stop. That's the entire premise of elective representation....

Of course there are no Legal restrictions against any Union trying to raid another Union and every Union has many members with all sorts of different “opinions” on the service they’re being provided and if that service is lacking or not.

And people also think if they’re not making $500,000 per year to sit on their ass that their Union is also failing them as well.

So they can chase their dogs tails all their lives trying to catch it. #Neversatisfied

 

[WeAAsles]

SO... it's OK for other unions to go after AMFA if they think they've failed their members, but it's not OK for AMFA to go after the TWU or IAM after they've failed their members?

Seems that if a union is failing it's members, the members should have the option of replacing them. Period. Full stop. That's the entire premise of elective representation....

Noticed how you wrote for AMFA “think” and how you didn’t write that same word for the TWU and IAM.

Your bias is beyond transparent.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Absolutely not but the question should be asked what made NWA Management go after that AMFA Group so completely brutally? Why didn’t any other Unions at the Airline want to stand up to help them? And no I’m not going to buy the simplicity of AMFA just not belonging to the AFL/CIO.

But from what I read the AMFA leadership also did not let the members have a final say on their fate with a vote?

NWA management was aware of the iams dealings with the local labor councils and their request that no assistance be given to AMFA in the event of a strike

As for the last vote that wasn't held - the previous vote the AMFA members had shot down the agreement by a wide margin, the "last" offer was worse and would have never passed anyway as the concessions the company asked for was for 52-53% of the memberships work - more than half the membership was never going to approve that offer

This comment is ridiculous. Why should they not have after AMFA took members away from them? AMFA was the one who opened the door to everything being fair game by raiding and to this day have never stopped that practice. It’s a part of their DNA.

... Why should they not have ...??? NWA was ON STRIKE AT THE TIME! the iam was actively trying to organize an ENTIRE GROUP ACTIVELY SCABBING and you say thats okay?

My comment wasn't ridiculous - YOU ARE - you try to pass yourself off here as some sort of concerned unionist yet you condone a union crossing an active picket line to try and organize SCABS

 

[eolesen]

Noticed how you wrote for AMFA “think” and how you didn’t write that same word for the TWU and IAM.

Your bias is beyond transparent.

Yup, I do have a distinct bias against the TWU. I've told my story here several times before, so there's no need to rehash it 19 years later other than to say they tried to get me fired from AA. That obviously didn't work.

To be clear, I've got no problem with the IBT or IAM. The TWU and its paid shills like you can rot away for all I care.

 

[eolesen]

My comment wasn't ridiculous - YOU ARE - you try to pass yourself off here as some sort of concerned unionist yet you condone a union crossing an active picket line to try and organize SCABS

Indeed. I've never understood how true believer unionists can reconcile that one.

 

[WeAAsles]

NWA management was aware of the iams dealings with the local labor councils and their request that no assistance be given to AMFA in the event of a strike

As for the last vote that wasn't held - the previous vote the AMFA members had shot down the agreement by a wide margin, the "last" offer was worse and would have never passed anyway as the concessions the company asked for was for 52-53% of the memberships work - more than half the membership was never going to approve that offer





... Why should they not have ...??? NWA was ON STRIKE AT THE TIME! the iam was actively trying to organize an ENTIRE GROUP ACTIVELY SCABBING and you say thats okay?

My comment wasn't ridiculous - YOU ARE - you try to pass yourself off here as some sort of concerned unionist yet you condone a union crossing an active picket line to try and organize SCABS

The decision ultimately was not for the leaders to make alone since AMFA claims it’s such a democratic Union. And if was guaranteed to fail they wouldn’t have had multiple members tell them to take a hike and scab back to work.

AGAIN once the Leaders tried to decide the ultimate fate of ALL they sacrificed their right to be outraged against the members who scabbed them. Probably members who never wanted them in the first place anyway.

But remember I don’t consider AMFA to be a real Union anyway. You’re not realizing that I completely do believe AMFA is a scam for a Law Firm to bilk money from naive and uneducated workers. And if AMFA was a real Union anyway they’re a Union that has no honor and deserves no respect or support.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yup, I do have a distinct bias against the TWU. I've told my story here several times before, so there's no need to rehash it 19 years later other than to say they tried to get me fired from AA. That obviously didn't work.

To be clear, I've got no problem with the IBT or IAM. The TWU and its paid shills like you can rot away for all I care.

DAMMMMNNNNN you’se be some angry angry fella. Now you’re getting into Fa La La territory.

 

[eolesen]

Nah, not angry. Unlike La, I was employable and able to enjoy the perks of an airline employee lifestyle elsewhere while cashing my AA pension checks each month.