I have had enough of the Teamsters!

[WeAAsles]

Yes the iam really did that - thanks for finally owning up to it - I'll hang on to this little acknowledgement on the off chance you ever try to portray yourself as a unionist again ... which you clearly are not.

AMFA is not a Union. Don’t know how many times it takes to get that through to you.

 

[Erick407a]

I will keep on topic.
Probably a little early to ask for any updates, however, are there at least, a favorable movement in all stations in wanting AMFA representation? Also is it the same favorable movement by all stations in the removement of the teamster representation?? Just trying to get the overall feeling of the membership as a whole. E is correct, if not all stations are on the same page, it would be much harder or longer to prevail with the number of cards needed to obtain an election vote.
Any info would be greatly appreciated Erick, good luck to all involved in the efforts for an AMFA representation sir.

Our drive started the first week of October, AMFA is not at all involved and has been pretty clear in the fact that they don't become involved until certain thresh holds are completed. I've been with SubCo for 22 years now and got to watch all of the goofy ploys the Teamsters do with regards to intimidation, attempting to gain favor with management to eliminate dissenters, avoiding the membership one serious topics but offering trinkets as consolation prizes, avoiding our contract negotiations to favor the larger group of individuals during the SubUA drive, zero transparency, attempts at including TeamCare/WCTPT which we voted down by over 90% the first time around and were then offered a weak contract afterwards due to their disinterests from being turned down, and most recently the reintroduction of TeamCare as a possible alternative ( which always includes their pension fund ), and with me personally the apprenticeship program was introduced in a back door manner using arbitration for Airbus check lines in Brazil while the Teamsters were promising us we would get a vote on conditions.


Those who work for UAL understand that the Teamsters were essentially absent, they were not seen or heard from and Doxey was the only source of information with the Teamsters quickly firing off a scripted email immediately after. A pile of legitimate grievances were wiped clean off the table in exchange for a single grievance that affected a minority of people wanting to retire to TPA.


I am not involved with AMFA, although I have signed cards during two previous drives for them, I also signed one for ALTA for those of your that remember that effort, and you could have gone to any fast food service and picked a kid standing behind the counter and I would've rather signed an Authorization Card to claim them as my representative rather than remain a IBT dues honeypot.


This guy WeAAsel likes to spend alot of time yapping on here about AMFA's attorneys and pulling up expense reports for them, the DOL is a big website with lots of information. Maybe someone can explain to this guy that there's a wealth of filings to sort through if you're curious and a current IBT member, how does your money get spent ? Where does it go ? How much real estate investment and contributions to multiple businesses owned by previous criminals is being funneled from our dues ? I found a lot of pretty serious and honestly disgusting associations with a few hours of searching.


For my local in Miami ( 3 hours away and controlled by the UPS ) there's no way to vote one of ours in although we've now grown from around 300 to nearly 800 strong in MCO. The ByLaws which they do not provide you with state that every member should learn to be a union member and be taught the importance of their ByLaws, not a single new hire has received a copy. It took me 6 years to receive a "non legitimate copy" because I wasn't willing to sign for it after paying 20 years worth of dues. We have to attend 50% of local meetings to be valid for position within the local and for us in MCO a 3 hour drive just isn't going to happen. We're outnumbered by box throwers and drivers who were put into a contract they voted down by 51% and had their union force it through by agreement which is why Hoffa implemented the 2/3 rule for ratification of contracts. But because we're part of the airline division it apparently doesn't apply to us.


I will be honest, I do NOT want to be involved, I have no position in the union and have no interest in becoming a 'union guy', what I do want is my votre to count. I want to be presented with options and vote on it, sinking or swimming by our groups interest. I do not want a union that postures to help us but is more interested in spending a year or two exploring and negotiating how to involve itself into my/our health insurance which is considered to be grandfathered and does not have to abide by rules set forth by the Affordable Care Act. And I could care less about having to rely on pensions offered by an organization that had to be repeatedly bailed out by the government ( Central States / New York ) most recently by way of recovery acts post COVID. The western conference plan is currently showing to have 3.5 drawers for every 1 contributor, that show is also on its way to be a disaster to be played on nightly news in a few years. The point is, certain people on here throw that ponzi scheme reference around in defense of industrial unions, but the entire organization as far as the IBT is concerned is a pyramid scheme from our 2.5x hourly rates all they way to the international's bank and whatever politicians are leeching off them at the moment.


As far as the drive goes, I personally spoke with Fisher, Graziano, Moore, weks before the arbitration had gone through a 2 hour or so sit down here in MCO with a room full of guys who none of which want to even be offered TeamCare or any service other than negotiating an improved contract funded by the company. Some of those questions included will we be surveyed prior to wasting any time exploring TeamCare or any inclusions into our contract that the membership may not want and the answer was essentially a no. Bob Fisher said it's their fiduciary duty to assess any and all options including TeamCare. The second main issue was the Apprentice Program which is being sold by the IBT as a great thing ( for them ) to being new talent in and help the company expand. Typical of any conversation with IBT/TWU/IAM puppets is the fact that they all blame AMFA for the preexisting wording in our contract regarding the apprentice program, when in reality this wording was included much before even the IAM was involved at Legacy UAL, we have proof. Humorously though the IBT shrugged it off to us during the merger of CoAir and UAL as "old language that will never get used" and now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because "we can all get our kids and buddies in", but the way it's structured it gives an apprentice a 2 year craft seniority jump after being introduced into a C-scale pay progression during their training to get a free A&P, so like many of us feel, your A&P licenses at UAL is technically only worth $5. We've also had a serious amount of hiring done post COVID retirements which was one of those "don't let any tragedy go to waste" moments, the company wanted to get rid of the heavy high timers but they forced out alot of experience. Now we have very few experienced techs coming in and management complains that "things are moving too slow". So the Teamsters is allowing the company to undercut those with experience and wages by giving away control to the Apprentice Program during a arbitation that had ZERO to do with an arbitration program. The apprentice program was introduced into arbitration that started back in June of this year, the phrasing in the arbitrators ruling specifies both the union and company agree to wanting it, all the while the IBT was promising us here in MCO that we were going to be able to vote on conditions such as craft implementation, pay, training of apprentices, overtime, and other issues stemming from this while they KNEW it was already being decided on by an arbitrator. They flat out LIED and so f*ck them and this union. That's where I'm at. I'm sick of it and they've been here 20 years on property and I want them OUT. The IBT has a knack for bending over and giving away leverage for contracts months before even beginning to negotiate as they did with the LOA given to the company during the 2015-2016 shared metal giving SubCo and SubUA techs access to each others aircraft while they were attempting to merge, they plain out sell us out every time.

We're more organized, using better technology this time, and have a growing online community that was originally intended on helping the IBT create an online format to communicate system wide and create a better union, but it is controlled by us the technicians and now we use it to distribute information on our drive. We have plans coming together and they will soon become known. IAH and EWR are the two stations we obviously need the most because of sheer headcount and many may not even be aware of our drive's scope, but they will very soon.

If you are a currently employee at UAL you're encouraged to join our discord server: https://discord.gg/jNHDYhGZxN

I'll try to keep better tabs on this forum to respond.

 

[CorvetteMan]

Pilots, FAs and every unionized worker didn’t support AFMA at NW.

So where is your ire against ALOA, AFA, IBT?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Pilots, FAs and every unionized worker didn’t support AFMA at NW.

So where is your ire against ALOA, AFA, IBT?

Are you having trouble reading?

When did I ever say the iam should've helped them?

I merely pointed out that at the very least they should not have deliberately worked AGAINST them, and any union worthy of the name, should definitely not have crossed an active picket line to try and organize SCABS.

So if you can point out how the pilots or FA's, or teamsters went to local labor councils and lobbied them NOT to help AMFA, or how any of them crossed AMFA's picket line to try and organize SCABS, or if you can show me where pilots, FA's, and teamsters performed AMFA's struck work ...


Then sure - I'll gladly add them to the list for condemnation ... but they didn't - the iam did

 

[CorvetteMan]

Are you having trouble reading?




So if you can point out how the pilots or FA's, or teamsters went to local labor councils and lobbied them NOT to help AMFA, or how any of them crossed AMFA's picket line to try and organize SCABS, or if you can show me where pilots, FA's, and teamsters performed AMFA's struck work ...


Then sure - I'll gladly add them to the list for condemnation ... but they didn't - the iam did

The ancillary work the ramp performed was ALREADY in the ramp CBA.

And NW removed ancillary duties from the imposed CBA.

So that work was in the ramp CBA and refusal to do it would have been insurbordination.

Funny how you left that detail out.

Ramp didn’t fix nor overhaul planes.

Nice try though.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The ancillary work the ramp performed was ALREADY in the ramp CBA.

And NW removed ancillary duties from the imposed CBA.

So that work was in the ramp CBA and refusal to do it would have been insurbordination.

Funny how you left that detail out.

Ramp didn’t fix nor overhaul planes.

Nice try though.

Your pathetic defense of the iam is laughable - their actions during the strike were well documented - they sought AMFA's struck work, here is just 1 snippet of many many examples ...


The move to shift more of the work to the IAM came after the union itself pressured the company to transfer the jobs. According to Thursday’s Detroit Free Press, “Northwest told the International Association of Machinists it could take over those tasks after union officials warned their continued cooperation depended on it... De Pace said the machinists want to keep the work even if AMFA and Northwest settle their dispute.”


Go ahead and make an even bigger fool of yourself by trying to defend the indefensible - Article after article documents the iams performance of struck work, and how they sought that work - statements made by your precious iam officers on the record - go ahead, and try to claim it isn't true

Go on and try to win an argument the iam lost over 15 years ago

 

[WeAAsles]

The ancillary work the ramp performed was ALREADY in the ramp CBA.

And NW removed ancillary duties from the imposed CBA.

So that work was in the ramp CBA and refusal to do it would have been insurbordination.

Funny how you left that detail out.

Ramp didn’t fix nor overhaul planes.

Nice try though.

After AMFA said NWA should take more from the IAM (Ramp) that would have been enough for me. Even if this garbage has been near 20 years ago the AMFA philosophy has given no contrition for its own sins. They still are out there always lurking and waiting to raid.

And at NWA Hundreds and hundreds of their own members were smart enough to cross the line and now finished or are in the process of finishing up a good career with Delta Airlines. The rest held the line to their own ideological idiocy. They believed and many still believe their own hype of how special they are.

 

[CorvetteMan]

After AMFA said NWA should take more from the IAM (Ramp) that would have been enough for me. Even if this garbage has been near 20 years ago the AMFA philosophy has given no contrition for its own sins. They still are out there always lurking and waiting to raid.

And at NWA Hundreds and hundreds of their own members were smart enough to cross the line and now finished or are in the process of finishing up a good career with Delta Airlines. The rest held the line to their own ideological idiocy. They believed and many still believe their own hype of how special they are.

I believe it was over 1,000 AMFA members who crossed the picket line.

 

[CorvetteMan]

Your pathetic defense of the iam is laughable - their actions during the strike were well documented - they sought AMFA's struck work, here is just 1 snippet of many many examples ...


The move to shift more of the work to the IAM came after the union itself pressured the company to transfer the jobs. According to Thursday’s Detroit Free Press, “Northwest told the International Association of Machinists it could take over those tasks after union officials warned their continued cooperation depended on it... De Pace said the machinists want to keep the work even if AMFA and Northwest settle their dispute.”


Go ahead and make an even bigger fool of yourself by trying to defend the indefensible - Article after article documents the iams performance of struck work, and how they sought that work - statements made by your precious iam officers on the record - go ahead, and try to claim it isn't true

Go on and try to win an argument the iam lost over 15 years ago

The language was in the IAM Contract way before the strike or concessions.
Nice try though.

 

[WeAAsles]

Your pathetic defense of the iam is laughable - their actions during the strike were well documented - they sought AMFA's struck work, here is just 1 snippet of many many examples ...


The move to shift more of the work to the IAM came after the union itself pressured the company to transfer the jobs. According to Thursday’s Detroit Free Press, “Northwest told the International Association of Machinists it could take over those tasks after union officials warned their continued cooperation depended on it... De Pace said the machinists want to keep the work even if AMFA and Northwest settle their dispute.”


Go ahead and make an even bigger fool of yourself by trying to defend the indefensible - Article after article documents the iams performance of struck work, and how they sought that work - statements made by your precious iam officers on the record - go ahead, and try to claim it isn't true

Go on and try to win an argument the iam lost over 15 years ago

You can’t get that AMFA got everything it deserved. It made its own bed. Everyone who signed that AMFA card was signing their own death warrant when they did. They bought in to the hype and that hype proved worthless.

AMFA since its beginnings has never and will never have any respect within the Airline Industry. It doesn’t have any respect from almost every Union and no Management either for that matter from the fact that SWA made them wait 7 years for a deal and that was just cash.

 

[WeAAsles]

I believe it was over 1,000 AMFA members who crossed the picket line.

1000 people who did the smart thing over the idiot radicals who stayed on the line and froze to death.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And we're treated to another pathetic attempt at deflection - Nice try Indeed

The iam scabbed struck work, and tried to organize the SCAB MX during a strike - make any excuse you wish, what happened was immortalized in digital print in dozens of articles at the time - THE iam SOUGHT OUT AMFA's work

But by all means continue to try to defend the indefensible - go ahead an undermine what little credibility you may have left if any - anyone with 5 minutes and a good search engine could expose your complete and utter ignorance on the matter.

 

[WeAAsles]

And we're treated to another pathetic attempt at deflection - Nice try Indeed

The iam scabbed struck work, and tried to organize the SCAB MX during a strike - make any excuse you wish, what happened was immortalized in digital print in dozens of articles at the time - THE iam SOUGHT OUT AMFA's work

But by all means continue to try to defend the indefensible - go ahead an undermine what little credibility you may have left if any - anyone with 5 minutes and a good search engine could expose your complete and utter ignorance on the matter.

AMFA STOLE IAM work. There is no defending that. And AMFA was the one who fired the first shot in the War.

And YOU just can’t accept that because you hate the IAM.

 

[WeAAsles]

The real story. Without all the fluff.


AMFA's Northwest Airlines Tragedy: In 1999 the AMFA finally achieved the big victory in longed for against the IAM in a bitter election dispute over mechanic and related employees at Northwest Airlines. On June 1, 1999 the National Mediation Board (NMB) certified AMFA as the mechanic and related representative, 54 percent to 45 percent.

AMFA had instantly become a major player in the airline industry. It would soon engage in negotiations with a major US carrier and represent over 10,000 mechanics in the industry. It was "show time" for AMFA; it now had to deliver on all its promises made over a 40 year history. AMFA promised Northwest mechanics industry-leading wages, retirement and scope language that would eliminate all farm-outs and the best lay-off protection in the industry.

AMFA claimed it could and would accomplish this because highly skilled mechanics belonging to an independent craft only association would not have to subsidize the wages and benefits of the unskilled. AMFA could no longer use the excuse that the reason the association never before could negotiate industry-leading contracts is because they represented mechanics and small carriers such as Ozark, Hughes Airwest or Atlantic Coast Airlines. AMFA had to deliver. AMFA had to prove that, indeed, it was industrial unions that suppressed the wages of highly skilled mechanics to boost the wages of the unskilled.

AMFA: Northwest | TWU-IAM Association

www.twu-iam.org

 

[Erick407a]

And we're treated to another pathetic attempt at deflection - Nice try Indeed

The iam scabbed struck work, and tried to organize the SCAB MX during a strike - make any excuse you wish, what happened was immortalized in digital print in dozens of articles at the time - THE iam SOUGHT OUT AMFA's work

But by all means continue to try to defend the indefensible - go ahead an undermine what little credibility you may have left if any - anyone with 5 minutes and a good search engine could expose your complete and utter ignorance on the matter.

The back and forth with defenders of these unions digging back 20 years to the times of deregulation is a waste of time. Everyone got boned back at NW, ALPA, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, god damn janitors all got locked out…it was a bankruptcy.

keeping people busy arguing about issues decades ago I’d a distraction to keep you busy working on today. Time to boot the Teamsters from UAL and help other technicians from other airlines join us afterwards. The fear these people have is losing whatever cozy positions they’ve worked themselves into as part of their respective unions. At UAL many of these stewards use Union Business to self assign Overtime as the mood suits them. They have a nice big honeypot to eat from while the rest of us have to wait in line for hours, that’s the only reason you see them show their teeth when you mention replacing the IBT.

time to just make this happen. If the TWU/IAM was honestly worried about their workers at AA..one of them would voluntarily step out of the way and allow the other to represent the unionists, but this is all about Union dues and nothing else.