Hp And Usair Ceo's Backhand Slap Apfa, Apa And Aa

L1011Ret

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Oct 31, 2002
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How to do it right?


JOINT STATEMENT OF LABOR PRINCIPLES
The management teams at both US Airways and America West Airlines recognize the anxiety and uncertainty created among our valued employees since news of a potential merger surfaced in April, and we sincerely regret that legal constraints prevented us from providing you with more details about our discussions. Now that we have announced our planned merger, we can assure you that we have heard
your requests to be kept informed and we will be as open as possible as this transaction progresses.
.
The leading question is the obvious one: what will happen to my job if America West is ultimately merged into US Airways? We?ll try to give you our best answer, but please keep in mind that it will take a long time to complete an operational integration and, as we?ve already seen, there?s always the potential for unexpected changes in our industry.

Even once we begin the process of integrating our operations, it?s still hard to say what will happen to anyone?s particular job. For employees in work groups not represented by a collective bargaining agent at either airline, our management teams will be fair to employees at both carriers. Every employee is entitled to be evaluated individually, and there is no presumption that employees of one airline will be favored over the other.

For employees in work groups represented by unions, the question of what will happen to your jobs is even harder for us to answer because so much of what will happen is outside management?s control. Our labor contracts contain different provisions governing how seniority lists will be integrated, and depending on your specific contract, provide for integration in accordance with a particular union?s merger policy or certain ?Allegheny Mohawk? seniority integration provisions. We will honor those contractual commitments, and the ultimate outcome of seniority integration will be determined by your collective bargaining representatives as dictated by your contracts.

Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitab le protocols as they implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply ?staples? all employees of one airline to the bottom of the other?s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable. To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.

Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone?s best interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater certainty, even if expectations are not always met.

We will provide updates about the proposed merger as soon as we can, while continuing to be honest about what we can?t predict. We truly believe this proposed merger is in the best interests of employees at both airlines, and we will work hard to provide you with information as we move towards a combined airline that has a great future ahead.

Sincerely,

Doug Parker
Bruce R. Lakefield
 
Specifically, we would expect that no employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active employee out of a job.

Sounds great coming from the CEO's. But the unions at AWA don't appear to be in agreement with all that just yet.

You've already got USA320Driver dreaming of flying A330's to Hawaii, and lots of PSA folks counting the days until they're able to transfer into LAX, SAN, etc.

How many AWA folks will be furloughed when layoffs occur -after- the transfers?...
 
This will be interesting to watch. I know there are those who will say this is a merger, not an acquisition, but it's an interesting merger in that US is both twice the size of HP and the one that is in the most immediate danger of liquidation. HP has a smaller and much junior workforce but is, at least by outside appearances, the stronger financially of the two. Plus, both FA groups are AFA and I believe they have a "date of hire" policy.

MK
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
Sounds great coming from the CEO's. But the unions at AWA don't appear to be in agreement with all that just yet.

You've already got USA320Driver dreaming of flying A330's to Hawaii, and lots of PSA folks counting the days until they're able to transfer into LAX, SAN, etc.

How many AWA folks will be furloughed when layoffs occur -after- the transfers?...
[post="271567"][/post]​
Very true. At AA there were some TWAers who were able to transfer (not bump)to some of the smaller cities where they get 25% of their TWA seniority (CMH, PIT, IND, etc) and afterwards there was a layoff. Guess who got laid off. That's right nAAtives got the ax.
 
It will most certainly be interesting and not fun to watch for some. I would think that AWA would have to tread lightly on this issue though. IF US employees get more of the shaft, it could get extremely ugly out east. Just my thoughts...................
 
coolflyingfool said:
It will most certainly be interesting and not fun to watch for some. I would think that AWA would have to tread lightly on this issue though. IF US employees get more of the shaft, it could get extremely ugly out east. Just my thoughts...................
[post="271585"][/post]​
I think the best thing to do in the US/HP case is to put a permanent fence between the two groups. Since one is basically a west coast airline and the other is an east coast airline, the employees are pretty much separated now. It would be unfair for a long term HP employee, whose company is not on the edge of extinction, to be displaced by a furloughed US employee, whose company will die without this transaction. If someone from the West wants to go East, then they have date of merger seniority. If someone from the East goes West then they have date of merger seniority. This, to me, seems the only fair way to do it because it protects what each side brought to the table. And it would prevent more senior people, some of whom are on layoff, from an all but dead company from going out West and bumping employees of the "savior" airline onto the streets. It will get even more tense given the fact that of the 60 aircraft of the combined entity slated to go, 50 will come from US. The fact that one is on the West coast and the other is on the East coast and can be separated by a fence provides the opportunity to preserve the "career expectations" of both groups. And in the case of the US people, "preserve" their jobs period.
 
If im not mistaken the most seniority a front line HP employee could have is 1983, their first flight was on AUG 1st, 83. I think most all the US employees that just got RIF'd out of SAN,SEA,PHX were all 1970's and very early 80's seniority.
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
Sounds great coming from the CEO's. But the unions at AWA don't appear to be in agreement with all that just yet.

You've already got USA320Driver dreaming of flying A330's to Hawaii, and lots of PSA folks counting the days until they're able to transfer into LAX, SAN, etc.

How many AWA folks will be furloughed when layoffs occur -after- the transfers?...
[post="271567"][/post]​
<_< Why don't we just keep our noses out of their business! Let's just set back and see what they can come up with, and not try and steer the pot quit yet!!!!! :down:
 
MCI transplant said:
<_< Why don't we just keep our noses out of their business! Let's just set back and see what they can come up with, and not try and steer the pot quit yet!!!!! :down:
[post="271682"][/post]​

This is a unique case that is for sure. An integration by hire date could also be a staple.
 
s80dude said:
This is a unique case that is for sure. An integration by hire date could also be a staple.
[post="271769"][/post]​

Not exactly unique. DOH would result in a reverse staple, since you've got a far more senior workforce at US. That's the same argument we've heard a bazillion times about AA/TW.

As for the question about "leaving our nose out of other people's business"....

For the past five years here and on other boards y'all have argued "AA unions screwed over TW's experienced employees" vs. "TW employees should be grateful to be employed" and this is almost the exact same situation.
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
Not exactly unique. DOH would result in a reverse staple, since you've got a far more senior workforce at US. That's the same argument we've heard a bazillion times about AA/TW.

As for the question about "leaving our nose out of other people's business"....

For the past five years here and on other boards y'all have argued "AA unions screwed over TW's experienced employees" vs. "TW employees should be grateful to be employed" and this is almost the exact same situation.
[post="271779"][/post]​
<_< Yes it is! So let's not give them any ideas!!! :down:
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
Not exactly unique. DOH would result in a reverse staple, since you've got a far more senior workforce at US. That's the same argument we've heard a bazillion times about AA/TW.

As for the question about "leaving our nose out of other people's business"....

For the past five years here and on other boards y'all have argued "AA unions screwed over TW's experienced employees" vs. "TW employees should be grateful to be employed" and this is almost the exact same situation.
[post="271779"][/post]​


TWA's employees are not employed, save a few hundred. :down:
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #13
CactusFlyr said:
TWA's employees are not employed, save a few hundred. :down:
[post="274553"][/post]​
Not a single F/A is employed. Probably the most destructive labor integration ever accomplished. Not too much different than terrorist organizations.
 
CactusFlyr said:
TWA's employees are not employed, save a few hundred. :down:
[post="274553"][/post]​
Interesting position. I have to wonder how their integration will ultimately end up. There's no doubt in the case of ALPA, that it will end up in arbitration.
 
L1011Ret said:
Not a single F/A is employed. Probably the most destructive labor integration ever accomplished. Not too much different than terrorist organizations.
[post="274564"][/post]​

Actually, it's a lot different than most terrorist organizations. That is disrespectful to those who have lost their lives and their families.
 

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