How Much Are You Worth?

[USA320Pilot]

You are worth what the market will pay.

There are thousands of airline employees willing to work for less and all it takes is to look at RJ operators, non-schedule airlines, and the LCC's to see this issue. These companies will crush the network airlines in short order unless labor and management quickly development a plan to lower unit costs.

This is no different than what happened to the railroad and steel industries. Either change or die -- it's really that simple. Do I like it? Nope, but it's reality.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Light Years]

How much am I worth? Sadly, not much on paper. Years of flight attendant experience, and the unique customer service experience it provides, doesn't amount to much. I've learned that the hard way.

Its all about dignity and how much you are willing to stoop, compensation and quality of life-wise, for something you love. I love the airline world and its people, and considered myself good at what I did. I'd like to think I was an asset. I can say the same for the overwhelming majority of the folks I called my peers.

But you get what you pay for, and I'm not sure that they can afford me anymore. Thier loss!

 

[AAviator]

USA320Pilot:

The market is paying more than the new low standard U is about to set. You say:
"There are thousands of airline employees willing to work for less and all it takes is to look at RJ operators, non-schedule airlines, and the LCC's to see this issue." U is none of these. The standard U is about to set, is a compensation package for a full service airline that does some point to point flying. Your comparison is without a baseline. U will be the new baseline for a full service, international, network carrier.
Steel was killed by off-shore production, and until we have cabotage, it will not happen here.

The railroads were killed by the trucking industry and the interstate system.

U needs to die. It failed to evolve, and you're desperate to make it work.

 

[mweiss]

Is that you, Lorenzo? Charlie here.

Ya know, Frank Lorenzo may have been a jerk, and his methods for extracting lower wages were underhanded and reprehensible. Nonetheless, he was clearly right about one thing. All else being equal, airlines with lower cost structures will survive, and ones with higher cost structures will fail.

It's why Sears is on life support and Walmart is kicking retail butt. Now, I find Walmart's business practices reprehensible, so I don't do business with them, but I understand why it is that they are so successful.

 

[traderjake]

The standard U is about to set, is a compensation package for a full service airline that does some point to point flying. Your comparison is without a baseline. U will be the new baseline for a full service, international, network carrier.

U needs to die. It failed to evolve, and you're desperate to make it work.

The next time you go to the airport you might notice some airplanes with Southwest and Jetblue painted on the sides.

You also might notice that the people inside are not willing to pay more to fly on your airline just because you call yourself full service.

Do you really believe that if U goes out of business, people will be willing to pay more for a ticket than they do now?

Do you believe the employees at U, Southwest, and Jetblue should stay home and refuse to work for less than what you make in order to protect your paycheck?

Under Regulation we were protected from competition by a government run cartel. Those days are over.

 

[AAviator]

I believe that if U ceases to exist the remaining carriers will absorb the traffic currently carried by USAirways. Easily. It may take a while to get the smaller markets connected, but it will happen.

I believe that the U pilots will set a new benchmark for narrowbody "lift" putting pressure on pilot compensation for B737, A319/320, and MD80 flying at network carriers to commuter levels. I believe before the fat lady sings, U A330 pilots will be making 50% less and have no benefits. (this action will pressure all employee groups compensation lower)

I believe these actions will not save USAirways.

I believe other network carriers can make money at the ticket prices set in markets that USAirways serves without a profit due to it's high costs.

In closing, I'm not sure what you meant here: "Do you believe the employees at U, Southwest, and Jetblue should stay home and refuse to work for less than what you make in order to protect your paycheck?" You forget, U is not B6, or SWA. They're profitable and not a network, international, or full service carrier. Give me an example comparing apples to apples and I'll be able to give you a response.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What are you worth? An interesting question - with no simple answer.

The floor is set by whatever someone else is willing to do your job for. I could probably hire 747 pilots for $30,000 a year - there are enough inexperienced pilots willing to use the job as a "stepping stone" to one that pays better.

The ceiling is somewhere above what the best paid person doing your job is getting. There are pilots flying 10-15 passenger airplanes making more than our pilots. Of course the passengers are the CEO's of Fortune 500 companies and the like who want the best qualified and are willing to pay for them.

For the vast majority of us, the answer is somewhere in between. A combination of what we think we're worth, what we're willing to accept, and what an employer is willing to pay after considering numerous factors such as turnover rate, training cost, quality of workforce desired, etc.

Jim

 

[willyloman]

"Well Bif....'

 

[repeet]

PITbull
Posted: Feb 23 2004, 07:40 AM

If you notice, labor is not out there giving out ultimatims.

Actually we are.

Hey Management,
The Concession Stand is CLOSED, your getting nothing more from us!

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe the company is going to exercise its plan with or without the IAM and the mechanics have very little leverage. For those mechanics who want a job at US Airways, it may be in your best interest to cut a deal that cost effectively permits the company to perform overhual in-house.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[pitguy]

There is plenty of time to talk to management. I personally would not be in any hurry to hear more lies. First they have to drag the Airbus farm out issue through the courts and/or mediation. You go ahead and deal all you want USA320Pilot and hopefully you will get your chance to fly an RJ.


--The company is trying to steal work they agreed to in the last contract and now they want to change that when they don't even follow it to begin with and lately they are choosing to play 'nasty' at work. The heck with them and let them close the doors if they is how it is going to be.

 

[johnnyfleet]

Ya know, Frank Lorenzo may have been a jerk, and his methods for extracting lower wages were underhanded and reprehensible. Nonetheless, he was clearly right about one thing. All else being equal, airlines with lower cost structures will survive, and ones with higher cost structures will fail.

It's why Sears is on life support and Walmart is kicking retail butt. Now, I find Walmart's business practices reprehensible, so I don't do business with them, but I understand why it is that they are so successful.

Lorenzo really didn't lower costs execpt employee costs and that was by busting unions, then CO went bankrupt twice, and they couldn't keep employees at the wages Lorenzo paid!! And Eastern is no longer with us, doesn't sound like he really lowered costs. CO was awful until Bethune took over, and the unions came back, and the employees were paid good wages and benefits, and the costs were lowered by simplifying the fleet (all boeing after this year when the MD80's retire), and concentrating on their strong hubs.

 

[airlineorphan]

You know, the really silly thing about the kind of neoclassical economics that this thread started with is that it is all based upon neat and tidy economics models that exist in some otherworldly non-reality.

All market factors are equal in this fanciful world: cabbages, A330's, stock options, beanie babies, bandwidth, labor.

The problem is that the real world is much more dynamic and complex than this simplistic "You are worth what someone is willing to pay for you..." (of course images of slave auctions came to mind when I read this...)

As one of those market factors, PEOPLE (another word for "labor") are social beings, capable of cooperating with each other or competing with each other. And sometimes of cooperating with each other in order to more effectively compete with other people (like, say, workers and their unions competing with management over the power to define the terms of work).

Those who would ignore this basic reality are really fooling themselves (some willfully, I think).

As for the following comment by Traderjake: "All the resolve and solidarity in the world is not going to change that. We are either going to change or become extinct."

Here is what I have to say. Restructuring of corporations is a constant fact of capitalist society. This much is true. However, the shape of the restructuring is ALWAYS governed by the level of solidarity and organization working people can muster. If they can muster very little, than a steamroller tramples many lives (until it provokes enough people to organize and tear down that steamroller). If they can must a great deal of solidarity and organization, than the restructuring can be redirected towards a more humane form.

Clearly traderjake either favors the trampling of working people or has decided the market is an inexorable force of nature (it is not, it is a social arrangement, amongst people).

I, like many others on this board, side with humanity. Remember that all of the rights (political, economic or otherwise) were won at times while the Traderjakes of the time were couselling the surrender of humanity and justice.

Are you a fundamentalist follower of the free market religion or do you stand with your fellow human being?

In solidarity,
Airlineorphan

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

You seem to equate "money" with "value". That is not the question that I posed above.

 

[tim]

This sounds like a outright threat!