how do you want to board

[wildirishrose]

Can someone answer THIS question about FCFS? Seniority may not seem to fair to many but though both are not perfect it seens that FCFS has the most room for problems and unfairness. Just what I have observed so far.

Maybe they should compromise like they are doing with the pay scale and give the West Coast agents a little more seniority a little sooner. Example; They have 5 years with HP, so give them 7, or even 10 (For traveling only) I mean they are going to bring the pay scale up to match East within a couple of years so why not do something similar with seniority?

 

[rjh]

Maybe they should compromise like they are doing with the pay scale and give the West Coast agents a little more seniority a little sooner. Example; They have 5 years with HP, so give them 7, or even 10 (For traveling only) I mean they are going to bring the pay scale up to match East within a couple of years so why not do something similar with seniority?

Ummm .in the very unlikely event something like that were to happen .they would have to do that for ALL of the former HP employees, not just agents.

 

[wildirishrose]

Ummm .in the very unlikely event something like that were to happen .they would have to do that for ALL of the former HP employees, not just agents.

Well, at least it would be consistent 😀

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Well, at least it would be consistent 😀

The only thing that is consistent is the inconsistency. 😉

 

[StuckHere]

There is no jumping ahead if you show up at the last minute, you need to be at the gate no later then 30 minutes prior to departure, otherwise your seniority means nothing.

We have been over this before.

I actually wasn't referring to last minute changes. I'm thinking about the non-rev connecting itinerary where you may be in the air for several hours before the second segment of your flight, and what looked good on the ground is now full of more senior stand-bys. Of course, so much else can happen in the air, we shouldn't take anything for granted about the condition of the flight (specifically, I mean equipment changes, roll-overs from other flights, etc.). Just with FCFS, when you get on that first segment, you know where you stand in line.

 

[crushed]

Just with FCFS, when you get on that first segment, you know where you stand in line.

So when you check-in 12 hours prior for your originating flight it checks you in for your connecting flight as well?
Doesn't that allow you to check in before the people in the connecting city as they would have to wait until 12 hours prior to your second flight?

 

[StuckHere]

So when you check-in 12 hours prior for your originating flight it checks you in for your connecting flight as well?
Doesn't that allow you to check in before the people in the connecting city as they would have to wait until 12 hours prior to your second flight?

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure you check in for the whole itinerary, so with FCFS you would have priority if you check in earlier than the local pax.

Can someone verify?

Thanks.

 

[crushed]

So when you check-in 12 hours prior for your originating flight it checks you in for your connecting flight as well?
Doesn't that allow you to check in before the people in the connecting city as they would have to wait until 12 hours prior to your second flight?

Can any "Westies" answer this?
If true, it seems like it would be a a huge disadvantage to those working in a hib.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I can't absolutely confirm this, but that's how it was explained in one of the early threads on this subject.

Frankly, it's one of the things I consider more fair about the HP system - someone can't be bumped in the middle of their journey by someone just starting their journey. It's really just an extension of what we already have at East - a junior non-rev can't be bumped off a through flight by a senior non-rev. This extends that to connections.

Remember that it's not just a hub vs outstation non-rev issue. For example, someone non-reving PHX-PHL-LGW would get "dibs" on the PHL-LGW segment over the PHL non-rev. Of course, someone non-reving SAV-CLT-PHX-HNL would get dibs over both.

Likewise, someone going CLT-PHX-HNL would get "dibs" on the PHX-HNL segment over the PXH-HNL non-rev.

As often as the difficulty of checking in 12 hours before departure has been brought up, this seems to fix some of that. It's entirely possible to be airborne when the check-in window opens, making it impossible to check in for a connecting flight until much closer to departure time. Being automatically checked in for connecting flights cures that problem.

Jim

 

[crushed]

I can't absolutely confirm this, but that's how it was explained in one of the early threads on this subject.

Frankly, it's one of the things I consider more fair about the HP system - someone can't be bumped in the middle of their journey by someone just starting their journey.

So everyone who works/lives in a hub boards behind anyone in an out station?
That's the most absurd thing I've heard yet!

 

[StuckHere]

If this works the way BoeingBoy explains, I think it would be more fair. It's a tougher pill to swallow getting bumped mid-trip versus at point of origin, especially if there aren't any later flights. If you live in a hub, at least you can go or stay home if the flight is full. The poor guy mid-trip would have to get a hotel room or stay at the airport.

I'm curious as to whether non-rev through passengers show up in listings and the ETC as standbys for the connecting leg, since they've already checked in for the itinerary. For example, would someone traveling CLT-PHX-HNL show up as an "SA" in the ETC for the PHX-HNL let? If not, how would they show up? Same question for Shares?

Anyone know?

 

[rjh]

I actually wasn't referring to last minute changes. I'm thinking about the non-rev connecting itinerary where you may be in the air for several hours before the second segment of your flight, and what looked good on the ground is now full of more senior stand-bys. Of course, so much else can happen in the air, we shouldn't take anything for granted about the condition of the flight (specifically, I mean equipment changes, roll-overs from other flights, etc.). Just with FCFS, when you get on that first segment, you know where you stand in line.

That's the whole thing with FCFS ..once you check in, you ALWAYS know where you stand. With seniority, you dont' know until you get at the airport ..and even then it can still change. Those in favor of DOH have consistently said you always know where you stand with DOH, but not with FCFS . .I don't see how!

So everyone who works/lives in a hub boards behind anyone in an out station?
That's the most absurd thing I've heard yet!

No, people that check in first get boarded first. That doesn't necessarily mean that those in hubs get boarded last-it all depends on the window from first leg to connecting leg, and when each person checks in.

And of course when you check in for a multi-leg itinerary, you're going to be checked in for all the flights--just like revenue passengers.

 

[crushed]

I still don't see how anyone would think that it is "fair" that employees originating in a hub should be boarded after those connecting.
So what if I can drive back home to catch tomorrows flight.
I thought FCFS was all about everyone being equal......This gives all out station employees an unfair advantage.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So everyone who works/lives in a hub boards behind anyone in an out station?
That's the most absurd thing I've heard yet!

FCFS - only if every non-rev in the out station checked in online earlier than any hub based non-rev. And only for flights outbound from the hub. When returning from a non-rev trip, most travel begins in an outstation where everyone is on a level playing field.

Under a seniority based system, senior folks from the outstations have priority over junior hub-based non-revs. If it's a through flight, junior folks from the outstations trump senior non-revs in the hub.

So it's not as simple as "Hub non-revs are always at a disadvantage under one system and never at a disadvantage under the other".

I'm curious as to whether non-rev through passengers show up in listings and the ETC as standbys for the connecting leg, since they've already checked in for the itinerary. For example, would someone traveling CLT-PHX-HNL show up as an "SA" in the ETC for the PHX-HNL let? If not, how would they show up? Same question for Shares?

Anyone know?

I have no idea about what appears in Sabre or Shares.

As far as the ETC, under the current system anything on East metal doesn't show who's checked in - only number listed - as far as I know. Of course, under the East system, no one is checked in till they get to the podium. It's my understanding that the "SA" column on the ETC is based only on seats sold, not non-revs who may be on both segments of a thru flight.

For the West system, it's my understanding that they can see who's checked in though I don't know if that's on the check-in screen of the ETC or where.

Jim

 

[rjh]

[quote name='BoeingBoy' date='Sep 1 2006, 09:23 AM'

As far as the ETC, under the current system anything on East metal doesn't show who's checked in - only number listed - as far as I know. Of course, under the East system, no one is checked in till they get to the podium. It's my understanding that the "SA" column on the ETC is based only on seats sold, not non-revs who may be on both segments of a thru flight.

For the West system, it's my understanding that they can see who's checked in though I don't know if that's on the check-in screen of the ETC or where.

Jim
[/quote]
Yes, the "SA" seats on ETC shows the actual number available ..based on capacity, and not authorization. It does not included non-revs listed, but there is a separate column.

And when you check-in online, you are shown how many non-revs within your priority are already checked in. So, that means you know EXACTLY where you stand (within your priority), and that won't change (again, for those who can't read--within your priority). Also, when you list for a flight using FCFS, you have a general idea of where you stand--if there are a lot of non-revs listed, you know you should check in as early as possible. With DOH--you have NO IDEA how many people are ahead of you, and you know that showing up earlier won't help you at all.