Here Comes the 'term sheet"

[Buck]

That is why AFW is closing and TULE is losing 2100 mechs, and 40% maintenance is being outsourced. <_<

The airline industry was different then from what it is now, when airlines started flying their aircraft overseas for OH, our world was destined to change.

Where did you here that AFW and TULE were going to lose 2100 and not just TULE?

 

[odie01]

unemployed from the airlines was at an all time high, now the industry is running on OT and mechanics are getting harder and harder to find.

OT every weekend in TAESL, I hear even the hanger is getting OT. DFW has OT out the azzz, what about ORD, MIA, JFK, LGA ect, this is a fact that the company needs OT for daily ops. I guess a layoff is now justified by the ot hours at the line and oh bases.

 

[Overspeed]

You seem to not realize that they did not even come down to where we were. What the company is looking to do is drive us lower than ever before. Remembers what Gordon Bethune said about mechanics in his book. You are not going to attract more premium passengers when the gadgets they pay for do not work and the plane never arrives or departs when it says its supposed to.

When UAL went through BK overall unemeployment may have been lower but the nuimber of unemployed from the airlines was at an all time high, now the industry is running on OT and mechanics are getting harder and harder to find.

Gordon Bethune took over after CO had filed BK twice and Lorenzo had beaten them all down. Bethune just had to start handing out chewing gum and they would have been happy. However do you know what Mr Bethune's first action was? He outsourced almost all overhaul. All the DEN staff had just moved to LAX when that was shut down and Bethune closed LAX down. Close to 2,000 got dumped in one day! Gave them their three months severance and said see you later. Then you know what he did, he had all the CO fleet repainted and refurbished with all that money he saved. Then by 2000 they finally got their pay back after freezes and pay cuts and like E said, they still came to work even after they got hammered.

Keep saying that the industry is short mechanics but that's in the US. Aeromexico is expanding and so is Aeroman where the FAA has so graciously given them 145 certificates. You don't have to have an A&P to work in those places or any other repair stations as long as they have A&P's sign for the work. You know that Bob. Stop speaking half truths. Admit it, your wrong.

And you should look at the AA Ops numbers. Delays and cancels are way down the last few months. I don't think everyone is disgruntled as you say. I would say they are more waiting for the other shoe to drop. Keeping rattling your saber Bob, keep rattling away.

 

[odie01]

And you should look at the AA Ops numbers. Delays and cancels are way down the last few months. I don't think everyone is disgruntled as you say. I would say they are more waiting for the other shoe to drop. Keeping rattling your saber Bob, keep rattling away.

Your not Joe mechanic working mids with TW off, are you part of the atd bunch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6FSiaUu0Ww

 

[chris perry]

Yes overtime is flowing the operation won't function normal without it. It will but trip's get cancelled. Too many planes not enough mechanics.

 

[Overspeed]

Your not Joe mechanic working mids with TW off, are you part of the atd bunch?

Nope I am usually working D terminal on days.

Nice video but the sound track needs work. Was union labor used for the lighting and the grips?

Interesting that so many people are blaming the TWU, ATD, AFL-CIO, Obama, AA management, consultants, NMB, and a multitude of other people for the situation we are in. Everyone on the floor though is blameless apparently.

Let me help you with how to accept personal responsibility;

* Acknowledging that you are solely responsible for the choices in your life.
* Accepting that you are responsible for what you choose to feel or think.
* Accepting that you choose the direction for your life.
* Accepting that you cannot blame others for the choices you have made.
* Tearing down the mask of defense or rationale for why others are responsible for who you are, what has happened to you and what you are bound to become.
* The rational belief that you are responsible for determining who your are, and how your choices affect your life.
* Pointing the finger of responsibility back to yourself and away from others when you are discussing the consequences of your actions.
* Realizing that you determine your feelings about any events or actions addressed to you, no matter how negative they seem.
* Not feeling sorry for the "bum deal" you have been handed but taking hold of your life and giving it direction and reason.
* Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background and awareness.
* Working out anger, hostility, pessimism and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment and misdirection.

 

[TWU informer]

Nope I am usually working D terminal on days.

Nice video but the sound track needs work. Was union labor used for the lighting and the grips?

Interesting that so many people are blaming the TWU, ATD, AFL-CIO, Obama, AA management, consultants, NMB, and a multitude of other people for the situation we are in. Everyone on the floor though is blameless apparently.

Maybe if we were not working under a "without further ratification" signed by James C Little Labor Agreement, Maybe if we did not have Secret Negotiations offering concessions for jobs, Maybe if were not witness to a failed AFL-CIO plan for labor, Maybe if we had a President that cared more about workers than campaign financing, Maybe if AA Management had not squandered the $1.8 Billion per year gave them in 2003, Maybe if the NMB would have allowed a representational election to confirm workers choice....

...Maybe then we would all look within ourselves as to our personal responsibility or blame for where we are at, but until the membership has control of the Union and the AFL-CIO, and AA Management actually becomes functional again, you are dreaming if you think we look to our own faults first.

 

[odie01]

Let me help you with how to accept personal responsibility;

* Acknowledging that you are solely responsible for the choices in your life.
* Accepting that you are responsible for what you choose to feel or think.
* Accepting that you choose the direction for your life.
* Accepting that you cannot blame others for the choices you have made.
* Tearing down the mask of defense or rationale for why others are responsible for who you are, what has happened to you and what you are bound to become.
* The rational belief that you are responsible for determining who your are, and how your choices affect your life.
* Pointing the finger of responsibility back to yourself and away from others when you are discussing the consequences of your actions.
* Realizing that you determine your feelings about any events or actions addressed to you, no matter how negative they seem.
* Not feeling sorry for the "bum deal" you have been handed but taking hold of your life and giving it direction and reason.
* Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background and awareness.
* Working out anger, hostility, pessimism and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment and misdirection.

Thanks for the self help advice, it really helps me look at others for who they are.
...................................JACKWAGON !!!

 

[Vortilon]

Nope I am usually working D terminal on days.

Nice video but the sound track needs work. Was union labor used for the lighting and the grips?

Interesting that so many people are blaming the TWU, ATD, AFL-CIO, Obama, AA management, consultants, NMB, and a multitude of other people for the situation we are in. Everyone on the floor though is blameless apparently.

Let me help you with how to accept personal responsibility;

* Acknowledging that you are solely responsible for the choices in your life.
* Accepting that you are responsible for what you choose to feel or think.
* Accepting that you choose the direction for your life.
* Accepting that you cannot blame others for the choices you have made.
* Tearing down the mask of defense or rationale for why others are responsible for who you are, what has happened to you and what you are bound to become.
* The rational belief that you are responsible for determining who your are, and how your choices affect your life.
* Pointing the finger of responsibility back to yourself and away from others when you are discussing the consequences of your actions.
* Realizing that you determine your feelings about any events or actions addressed to you, no matter how negative they seem.
* Not feeling sorry for the "bum deal" you have been handed but taking hold of your life and giving it direction and reason.
* Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background and awareness.
* Working out anger, hostility, pessimism and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment and misdirection.

D terminal on days..... Tom Athas is that you?

 

[Vortilon]

Gordon Bethune took over after CO had filed BK twice and Lorenzo had beaten them all down. Bethune just had to start handing out chewing gum and they would have been happy. However do you know what Mr Bethune's first action was? He outsourced almost all overhaul. All the DEN staff had just moved to LAX when that was shut down and Bethune closed LAX down. Close to 2,000 got dumped in one day! Gave them their three months severance and said see you later. Then you know what he did, he had all the CO fleet repainted and refurbished with all that money he saved. Then by 2000 they finally got their pay back after freezes and pay cuts and like E said, they still came to work even after they got hammered.

Keep saying that the industry is short mechanics but that's in the US. Aeromexico is expanding and so is Aeroman where the FAA has so graciously given them 145 certificates. You don't have to have an A&P to work in those places or any other repair stations as long as they have A&P's sign for the work. You know that Bob. Stop speaking half truths. Admit it, your wrong.

And you should look at the AA Ops numbers. Delays and cancels are way down the last few months. I don't think everyone is disgruntled as you say. I would say they are more waiting for the other shoe to drop. Keeping rattling your saber Bob, keep rattling away.

That's funny, I'm looking at the metrics in AA aircraft maintenance's own publication "Leading Edge" March edition - see page 36. Things are not as rosey as you say either. Just pointing out the obvious.

 

[Overspeed]

That's funny, I'm looking at the metrics in AA aircraft maintenance's own publication "Leading Edge" March edition - see page 36. Things are not as rosey as you say either. Just pointing out the obvious.

Year over year.

And keep in mind, AA MX has almost always been dead last since 2004. So when people say why would AA want to outsource when in house delivers high quality, performance, and low cost I would say, what are you talking about? The best performing airline - WN - does it with fewer mechanics and almost all overhaul outsourced. CO and DL do better than us with 50% of their maintenance outsourced. And NW recovered rather quickly from outsourcing almost all maintenance and keeping only two line stations.

The point, we are all replaceable and that sucks. Maybe if Bob had thought of all these variables and facts he would have planned better.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

So, the company is gutting overhaul because they claim it is too expensive to do our own work. Then just for good measure they kick us in the balls with something like this, http://aa-mro.com/events/mro2012/. I find the quote for their add a bit "ironic" given the closure of the most productive overhaul base. "We've been curing MRO headaches and keeping fleets healthy for more than 80 years. We've always delivered faster turn times, unmatched reliability, and superior quality and for MRO Americas 2012, we'll be delivering a NEW unbeatable offer. Stop by our booth to check it out. You'll leave feeling much better."

 

[damajagua]

Almost every union came to some kind of consensual agreement before their contracts
where abrogated by the judge in prior bankruptcies. If none of the unions at AA are able
to obtain at least a 20-25% improvements to the 1113 term sheets they are useless.
It's time to start to work. Stop playing games already and get the job done. That is what
we pay you our dues for. I know AA management is ruthless but the unions at AA have also
being in total denial for a very long time. Who cares at this point that the executives took
bonus. Stop playing games already trying to get us "industry average" crap. WE ARE
BANKRUPT. Get us some kind of relief from the 1113 term sheet or else there is really
no need to keep any of you guys representing us. And if anyone has any doubt that
the judge will not impose the 1113 term sheet just sit back and wait. I understand what
the unions have been doing; they have been trying to drag their feet so we can keep our
contract for as long as possible; well the game is over. Time to get us something a little better
than the entire 1113 term sheet impose on us.

 

[AA89]

So, the company is gutting overhaul because they claim it is too expensive to do our own work. Then just for good measure they kick us in the balls with something like this, http://aa-mro.com/events/mro2012/. I find the quote for their add a bit "ironic" given the closure of the most productive overhaul base. "We've been curing MRO headaches and keeping fleets healthy for more than 80 years. We've always delivered faster turn times, unmatched reliability, and superior quality and for MRO Americas 2012, we'll be delivering a NEW unbeatable offer. Stop by our booth to check it out. You'll leave feeling much better."

Hmmmm April 3-5 Dallas Convention Center.......I need some big plastic bags, fridge magnets and pens. I think I'll go and check it out.

 

[Vortilon]

Year over year.

And keep in mind, AA MX has almost always been dead last since 2004. So when people say why would AA want to outsource when in house delivers high quality, performance, and low cost I would say, what are you talking about? The best performing airline - WN - does it with fewer mechanics and almost all overhaul outsourced. CO and DL do better than us with 50% of their maintenance outsourced. And NW recovered rather quickly from outsourcing almost all maintenance and keeping only two line stations.

The point, we are all replaceable and that sucks. Maybe if Bob had thought of all these variables and facts he would have planned better.

Point is, for the most part - there are no new hires here. All of us knew what we were voting against on that last TA! Your pinning the blame on Bob is BS. I feel the same way he does on the issue, and so do most of the guys you work with! Define replaceable. Good god, even when a 20 year guy transfers in, he needs time to come up to speed on local rules, and where everything is etc.. As far as your assertion on NWA maintenance recovering quickly, I'll take issue with that. Even though they are Delta now - they still haven't recovered. It's more like they are doing a good job covering up their shortcomings. I have family there, and I'm told just how great they really are. I especially like the part where after NWA lost most of there AMTs and then had a miserable collection of scabs and previously unemployable retreads; anyway, it was so bad that they had to dumb down the maintenance manuals. So, yeah there are a lot of qualified AMTs waiting to replace us....not.