Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[NYer]

 
 
You can tapdance all you want NYer; fact is, the way this whole equity distribution process is going down stinks.  The international is already on shakey ground with the AMTs at AA as it is.  This only solidifies most of our negative opinions about the TWU, and the unqualified parasite weasles that run it.  Year over year, we see the international give themselves raises for poor performance - not unlike airline executives.  Bottom line is, we the membership have had enough of the TWU contstantly screwing things up - at the cost of the membership.  This deal should have been iron clad - to protect the memberships equity shares! The only people making out on this deal, will be the ambulance chasers.  Thanks again TWU, and TWU apologist - NYer!

 
Not apologizing for anyone. Rile away on the International all you want, I could care less. Most of you here want the TWU out and will take piece of information in order to drive that point. However, there are others that just the information as it is and those are the folks my information is for. You want another union, go for it. You want to start another card drive, go for it. Changing your mind on that is not my concern, but sharing information with those that want it....is.
 
This Equity process is legal process and those that believe they were not treated fairly can try to make a dent in the decision. Chances are that the distribution process and distribution itself will survive these lawsuits, since they seem to have little merit. I would be surprised if these cases aren't dismissed.

 

[exs]

 
Not apologizing for anyone. Rile away on the International all you want, I could care less. Most of you here want the TWU out and will take piece of information in order to drive that point. However, there are others that just the information as it is and those are the folks my information is for. You want another union, go for it. You want to start another card drive, go for it. Changing your mind on that is not my concern, but sharing information with those that want it....is.
 
This Equity process is legal process and those that believe they were not treated fairly can try to make a dent in the decision. Chances are that the distribution process and distribution itself will survive these lawsuits, since they seem to have little merit. I would be surprised if these cases aren't dismissed.

When you posted the information, that is what you should of started with. You made yourself an easy target when you started defending this Union and their decisions. If I had a dollar for every decision this union has made without asking the members.
 
Why not ask the membership or vote on how the legal fees should be taking care of?
 
Keep it up TWU, you will make the AMFA drive easier.

 

[AANOTOK]

Just want the money owed me NYer, from past to present to future concessions, this Equity was suppose to satisfy a minute portion of that. Again, 5% was the safeguard...now it's at 14%. Obviously I continue to lose. Is that really hard to understand. I have read, deciphered, and reread everything you have posted. None of it makes it right or justifies me continuing to lose, especially without me having a voice!!

 

[Realityck]

 
 
You can tapdance all you want NYer; fact is, the way this whole equity distribution process is going down stinks.  The international is already on shakey ground with the AMTs at AA as it is.  This only solidifies most of our negative opinions about the TWU, and the unqualified parasite weasles that run it.  Year over year, we see the international give themselves raises for poor performance - not unlike airline executives.  Bottom line is, we the membership have had enough of the TWU contstantly screwing things up - at the cost of the membership.  This deal should have been iron clad - to protect the memberships equity shares! The only people making out on this deal, will be the ambulance chasers.  Thanks again TWU, and TWU apologist - NYer!

 
 
 
 
Now how exactly could the TWU or any Union have made this deal “ironclad”? No-one has the power to prevent people who think they were treated unfairly from suing. If the TWU had overruled the decision of the AA Presidents and directed distribution of stock to retirees you would have been on this Board railing against the dictators from the International and probably would have been part of a class action lawsuit aimed at keeping the money from the retirees. The stock is now in a trust which is accountable to a federal court. The idea that the International or a bunch of lawyers could abscond with the stock under this circumstance is ridiculous. According to my Local, 12.5% of the stock is being claimed by the early retirees.  However, there are many other individual claims alleging that shares were wrongly computed or that the Company’s information was faulty. That will take up the bulk of the remaining 1.5%, not lawyer’s fees.
 
I have discussed this case with several lawyers not affiliated with the TWU and all of them believe the Union’s legal position is sound and that the case should be dismissed before trial. If that happens legal fees will be limited and half of a million dollars (or 25 to 30 dollars per member) is a liberal estimate. This was not the International’s decision, but they are fighting the case aggressively. While the prospects look good no-one can guarantee the result of a lawsuit. What I can guarantee is that if the TWU loses you will blame them and if it wins you will give them no credit. 

 

[Realityck]

When you posted the information, that is what you should of started with. You made yourself an easy target when you started defending this Union and their decisions. If I had a dollar for every decision this union has made without asking the members.
 
Why not ask the membership or vote on how the legal fees should be taking care of?
 
Keep it up TWU, you will make the AMFA drive easier.

 
 
 
I have no problem with having a vote on who pays for legal fees, so long as everyone in the union whose dues money is going to be used has the right to vote. We all have the right to have the whole union stand behind us in a fight with management. This is a fight between members. I will let you explain to a Southwest flight attendant or an Amtrak mechanic why their dues should be used to support one set of members against another over a decision they had no role in and no stake in. As I’ve said before, I agree with the decision made by the Presidents. However, I am not going to demand that non AA members get forced into this dispute in order to avoid the deduction of what will probably be less than a share of stock. 

 

[Rogallo]

So I'll lose $25-30 of eqity this time.
 
How much did I lose paying the 757 grievance?
 
When did it become practice for union members to pay for grievances?
 
What Next?
 
THIS UNION SUCKS!

 

[exs]

 
 
 
I have no problem with having a vote on who pays for legal fees, so long as everyone in the union whose dues money is going to be used has the right to vote. We all have the right to have the whole union stand behind us in a fight with management. This is a fight between members. I will let you explain to a Southwest flight attendant or an Amtrak mechanic why their dues should be used to support one set of members against another over a decision they had no role in and no stake in. As I’ve said before, I agree with the decision made by the Presidents. However, I am not going to demand that non AA members get forced into this dispute in order to avoid the deduction of what will probably be less than a share of stock. 

Thank You!!! 
 
You have just made a point why we need a class and craft union!!
 
Keep posting statements like this, you TWU kool-aid drinkers keep passing the shovel and dig that hole a little deeper.
 
Man, the TWU is the best AMFA supporter.
 
Go AMFA!!!

 

[Realityck]

Thank You!!! 
 
You have just made a point why we need a class and craft union!!
 
Keep posting statements like this, you TWU kool-aid drinkers keep passing the shovel and dig that hole a little deeper.
 
Man, the TWU is the best AMFA supporter.
 
Go AMFA!!!

 
 
How ridiculous can you be? I was clear that you had the right to the support of all members in a fight with management, just not in a fight between members (which also involves a fight between mechanic members) in which the International was just going along with the decision of the AA Presidents. No-one outside AA has any reason to get involved in this fight or pay for it including AE mechanic and related

 

[WeAAsles]

Thank You!!! 
 
You have just made a point why we need a class and craft union!!
 
Keep posting statements like this, you TWU kool-aid drinkers keep passing the shovel and dig that hole a little deeper.
 
Man, the TWU is the best AMFA supporter.
 
Go AMFA!!!

I always seem to notice that the term "Kool aid drinker" usually comes from people that never want to engage the debate for any practical purpose in disputing the facts given to them.

Whatever their personal motivations are especially if they want other people to follow them you would think especially as adults they could do a lot better than resorting to name calling?

Or maybe they can't?

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree with Bob that in the end the TWU will find a way to keep/use all the equity they can and convince the members that it was in our best interest. We keep coming back/staying for more.

That's not what I said. Let me clarify, "they" as in the Lawyers will find a way to spend as much of the 1.5% ($5.3million)as they possibly can and human nature is that if you aren't the one paying the bill there is less reason to watch and scrutinize.

 

[Vortilon]

 
 
 
 
Now how exactly could the TWU or any Union have made this deal “ironclad”? No-one has the power to prevent people who think they were treated unfairly from suing. If the TWU had overruled the decision of the AA Presidents and directed distribution of stock to retirees you would have been on this Board railing against the dictators from the International and probably would have been part of a class action lawsuit aimed at keeping the money from the retirees. The stock is now in a trust which is accountable to a federal court. The idea that the International or a bunch of lawyers could abscond with the stock under this circumstance is ridiculous. According to my Local, 12.5% of the stock is being claimed by the early retirees.  However, there are many other individual claims alleging that shares were wrongly computed or that the Company’s information was faulty. That will take up the bulk of the remaining 1.5%, not lawyer’s fees.
 
I have discussed this case with several lawyers not affiliated with the TWU and all of them believe the Union’s legal position is sound and that the case should be dismissed before trial. If that happens legal fees will be limited and half of a million dollars (or 25 to 30 dollars per member) is a liberal estimate. This was not the International’s decision, but they are fighting the case aggressively. While the prospects look good no-one can guarantee the result of a lawsuit. What I can guarantee is that if the TWU loses you will blame them and if it wins you will give them no credit. 

 
 
Well, I won't be holding my breath for anything that benefits the membership - to come out of any of these legal challenges for our equity.  It has been my experience with the TWU, that if there is a chance at a better outcome for anything - you can pretty much bank on the chance that the membership is getting screwed.  It doesn't matter if it is a contractual issue, or a deal like this equity distribution process either!  I have had enough of the BS!  The thought of being represented by these two mongrel unions (IAM/TWU) in some sort of joint representation just makes me sick.

 

[exs]

 
 
How ridiculous can you be? I was clear that you had the right to the support of all members in a fight with management, just not in a fight between members (which also involves a fight between mechanic members) in which the International was just going along with the decision of the AA Presidents. No-one outside AA has any reason to get involved in this fight or pay for it including AE mechanic and related

LOL, I'm being ridiculous? The only bring up non AA members is you. Tell me if anyone in this thread has mentioned that a non member of the TWU should pay for the legal fees? What we are saying is and Bob has pretty much explained is the union should pay. Why are you using my shares to pay? Did you even give me they courtesy to ask? Why assume its going to cost so much? 5.5 million, really? Why not finish with the lawsuit, have the lawyers bill the union and then worry about how we get the money?
 
Did F/A at Southwest or the Amtrak mechanics get Equity? Why would you even bring that up?
 
Who's being ridiculous now?

 

[exs]

I always seem to notice that the term "Kool aid drinker" usually comes from people that never want to engage the debate for any practical purpose in disputing the facts given to them.

Whatever their personal motivations are especially if they want other people to follow them you would think especially as adults they could do a lot better than resorting to name calling?

Or maybe they can't?

I am a reasonable person and when someone explains something to me and I look at the facts, I can change my mind and admit I'm wrong.
 
But these "kool-aid drinkers like Realityck, Overspeed and Nyer to name a few, come in here with there hidden agenda and defend this Totally Worthless Union and will not budge when people give them facts and admit there wrong, it's hard to debate. We still love when they post though. Like I said before keep passing the shovel.
 
Go AMFA!!

 

[NYer]

When you posted the information, that is what you should of started with. You made yourself an easy target when you started defending this Union and their decisions. If I had a dollar for every decision this union has made without asking the members.
 
Why not ask the membership or vote on how the legal fees should be taking care of?
 
Keep it up TWU, you will make the AMFA drive easier.

 
Didn't defend union, on the other hand I also do not blame them for EVERYTHING and make all their decisions wrong. That is left to the those that have the anti-TWU agenda. Simply giving information concerning the equity distribution and why it was 14%.
 
Apparently, sharing information on this forum constitute that you're against or for the TWU. Taken another step, if not against then it means you're definitely for. Not everything has to be about picking sides.

 

[NYer]

Just want the money owed me NYer, from past to present to future concessions, this Equity was suppose to satisfy a minute portion of that. Again, 5% was the safeguard...now it's at 14%. Obviously I continue to lose. Is that really hard to understand. I have read, deciphered, and reread everything you have posted. None of it makes it right or justifies me continuing to lose, especially without me having a voice!!

 
You haven't lost 5% or 14%...at least not yet. That sum was set aside in the event our fellow Members win their suit, which is highly unlikely.
 
If when the plaintiffs lose it would seem that expenses shouldn't be any more than one half of one percent as even that is a large sum.