Glad to have located our flyboys, or is it "the life of the rich and famous"

[Rhino]

<Wage and Benefit concessions has never saved an airline which is in trouble.>

CAL, TWA and SWA are exceptions.

CAL's in better shape than many carriers.

TWA employee sacrifices kept it going long enough to be aquired.

Many don't remember that SWA was often on the ropes in its formative years.

 

[Busdrvr]

----------------
On 8/31/2002 1217 AM

Busdrvr I agree, how are you doing these days? On my days off I will send an email to MR Daschle,Mr Gephardt and MR Durbin imho my home state of Texas would be a waste of good bandwith to email any of them[]
----------------

Don't be so sure. It's all about votes. They answer to YOU!. Keep in mind (and you might want to frame the discussion this way), that if UAL is able to "reduce costs" by 2.5 billion, AMR and CAL are in deep trouble. It will destabilize the whole industry. I recommend a phone call to the Wash. office. The Sens get lots of "spam", so an E-mail may get lost in the shuffle. regardless of whether or not you're willing to give any concessions, you would be wise to indicate that you WILL give a REASONABLE amount. One office I talked to for nearly an hour expressed concern because some of those who'd call had made remarks on the lines of "No way, no how, not one red cent!!" Doesn't help the cause. If you need the number for your local guys, PM me and I'll get it for you (that applies to all of Yous UAL warriors). Thanks for putting in the time to help the cause. []

 

[michael707767]

----------------
Many don't remember that SWA was often on the ropes in its formative years.
----------------

The difference with SWA being that management has consistantly treated its employees fairly, and given back to them when times were good. Most management groups love to get pay cuts in the bad times, the refuse to give back in the good times.

 

[flaptrack]

Nice Post KCFLYER,

I will send my thoughts to Susan Phillips.

 

[flaptrack]

HI-LOCK

(great handle from the HI-SHEAR Corporation in Torrance California)

Hi-Lock, I am not a scab and I would never be one! But, I would like the opportunity to make even $25 an hour. What are you making now ? $37? You got lucky and got on with United Airlines. Now if you are one of those mechs' that can fix a B-777 at the gate, then you are worth it! If you are just cutting Gilliner in the hangar, then you are not! God help me but I would like to see United and US Air go out of business so I might have more opportunities. I know this is harsh. But if you have the guts, I will give you my qualifications to back up my clain so I could make, like ,you know, even $50,000 a year, much less $77,000

 

[kcabpilot]

"I will give you my qualifications to back up my clain so I could make, like ,you know, even $50,000 a year, much less $77,000"

flaptrack:

If you work at SFO then figure that you're going to live at least 60 miles from work where you can get a $300k crackerbox house. At $50k/yr you'd better scratch that, you wouldn't even qualify for the loan.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 8/31/2002 1123 PM

&amp;quot;I will give you my qualifications to back up my clain so I could make, like ,you know, even $50,000 a year, much less $77,000&amp;quot;

flaptrack:

If you work at SFO then figure that you're going to live at least 60 miles from work where you can get a $300k crackerbox house. At $50k/yr you'd better scratch that, you wouldn't even qualify for the loan.


----------------

Or DEN or LAX or ORD or IAD. I honestly don't have a clue how our SFO CSRs survive

 

[Bear96]

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On 8/31/2002 7:57:36 PM

God help me but I would like to see United and US Air go out of business so I might have more opportunities. I know this is harsh.
----------------

Maybe I am missing something in your logic, but how are you going to have MORE opportunities with thousands more qualified people out there on the streets looking for jobs and two large employers out of business???

 

[mastermechanic]

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On 8/31/2002 7:57:36 PM

HI-LOCK

(great handle from the HI-SHEAR Corporation in Torrance California)

Hi-Lock, I am not a scab and I would never be one! But, I would like the opportunity to make even $25 an hour. What are you making now ? $37? You got lucky and got on with United Airlines. Now if you are one of those mechs' that can fix a B-777 at the gate, then you are worth it! If you are just cutting Gilliner in the hangar, then you are not! God help me but I would like to see United and US Air go out of business so I might have more opportunities. I know this is harsh. But if you have the guts, I will give you my qualifications to back up my clain so I could make, like ,you know, even $50,000 a year, much less $77,000
----------------

Before I rip flaptracks living soul out, let me say I understand to a point what you are saying...because we've all been there. But don't let this envy stray you from reality...I was a kid fresh out of the military and working on heavy equipment for $6/hr when I got on with United. I NEVER rode this union B.S and have taken advantage of every bit of training and qualifications I could get out of United, plus my own education that I paid for going to electronic and machinists schools. I am an a**hole alright, but I HAVE EARNED EVERYTHING I HAVE and then some. And when I show up to work all these years later, it's still "showtime" to me. If you think somehow our misfortune is your gain, then you are being delusional. This senority thing is crap and I have pretty good senority, and this union thing is puke too, until you have to deal with a United Airlines and you have no frigg'n choice. I don't know why I'm here and your not (especially if you are so qualified), but I left my home, and the things I knew, to play in what I refer to as the big leagues. And I thought I was going to make some good money...well believe me buckwheat...it's all relative, cause all metropolitan areas are expensive to live in. Ya, if I lived in Nioda Tennessee, this wage would be ludicrous. I don't expect to get rich from working on airplanes for someone else. But these $120 million dollar machines don't go anywhere without qualified, experienced technicians maintaining them. And this company can shove it up their a** if they think they are going to get it for free!!

 

[HI-LOCK]

----------------
On 8/31/2002 7:57:36 PM

HI-LOCK

(great handle from the HI-SHEAR Corporation in Torrance California)

Hi-Lock, I am not a scab and I would never be one! But, I would like the opportunity to make even $25 an hour. What are you making now ? $37? You got lucky and got on with United Airlines. Now if you are one of those mechs' that can fix a B-777 at the gate, then you are worth it! If you are just cutting Gilliner in the hangar, then you are not! God help me but I would like to see United and US Air go out of business so I might have more opportunities. I know this is harsh. But if you have the guts, I will give you my qualifications to back up my clain so I could make, like ,you know, even $50,000 a year, much less $77,000
----------------

Why do you undervalue your skills and licenses? We A&P mechanics as a group deserve every dime we can bargain for and then some!I am an AA mechanic who bought AMR and UAL stock after Sept 11 to put my money where my mouth is.I still hold both stocks and will stick with them until they increase or collapse.If too many people are willing to work for $50K/YR it will devalue the A&P license and drive down wages and benefits.Do you think a AA or UA mechanic living in LAX or NY thinks that $70K plus per year is too much?

 

[Tim Thorpe]

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On 8/29/2002 8:58:18 PM

As an outsider, I find this to be truly amazing. The same folks (and their unions) who never want to accept binding arbitration during &amp;quot;normal&amp;quot; contract negotiations because they believe that the neutral arbitor will &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; side with management, now want to place their faith in a judge that oversees a forum that is geared to the needs of businesses and thus is likely to be much more favorable to United's creditors and, to a lesser extent, the company itself. For the unions and their members to believe that a bankruptcy judge will offer them a better deal than whatever United ultimately proposes (after some negotiations) is IMHO naivete in the extreme.

Cosmo, no one in the maintenace division is naive. We all know that our chances with the BK judge would not be good. We also know that we will probably be taking cuts. What we can't do is give the company the changes to our Scope agreement. We also shouldn't have to take cuts that go well beyond helping the company recover. The company asked for the moon knowing full well their request was unreasonable and unacceptable. What is their real goal? Who knows.

 

[flaptrack]

Bear96. On an even playing field I have more skills than someone doing cargo pits (you know what I mean)

And to Mastermechanic and Hi-Lock, I thank you for your response. No B.S. on what you think.

 

[HI-LOCK]

[blockquote]
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On 8/31/2002 12:55:23 PM Rhino wrote:

&lt;Wage and Benefit concessions has never saved an airline which is in trouble.&gt;

CAL, TWA and SWA are exceptions.

CAL's in better shape than many carriers.

TWA employee sacrifices kept it going long enough to be aquired.

Many don't remember that SWA was often on the ropes in its formative years.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Chapter 11 protection saved CAL,not wage concessions.It gave them a big operating cost advantage over all other airlines.[FOR SEVERAL YEARS!]In the end TWA was not saved,just bought out by AA. SWA is another story within itsself.

 

[Rhino]

Hi-lock,

1) Wage concessions were an integral part of CALs recovery. To argue otherwise is absurd.

2) TWA would never have made it to be acquired without concessions.

Interesting that the IAM did squat for TWA, relative to the other work groups, yet they received better seniority.

IAM is screwing up USAir and UAL as we speak. That old steel mill/coal mine mentality of Charlie Bryan will hurt you in the long run far more than these concessions will. The security guard at my dughter's school is an EAL mech who then worked Ryan and Valujet. He'd like to retire but his pension is gone.

Max pay to the last day! Where's my retro!

 

[kcabpilot]

The IAM at UAL got their first raise since 1992 in March of this year. How do you figure that they are responsible for United's current fiscal dilema?