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Garfield1966
Veteran
Whether or not the company cares for me is irrelevant. IMO, it is not the companies job to care for me. It is their job to make money. I agreed to come to work for them. Nothing has changed as far as my job requirements are concerned. I knew when I hired on way back when that AA was open 365 days a year IN A ROW. I knew that working operational jobs I would be expected to work any shift, any day of the year and that includes, but is not limited to my birthday, my wife’s birthday, my parents birthday and anniversary, any graduations, baptisms, confirmations, bar-mitzvas or what ever else crops up. I have been give certain opportunities to get out of work such as trade, VC, TL (time card leave) and the like. If I am not able to get off work, then I show up. It’s that simple. My actions are not dependant on the actions of others.
I agree with you on the Rule 32 thing.
So TWAnr,
Let me get this straight. You really want management (whom everyone seems to hate and mistrust) making exceptions to the contract for the purposes of granting “favors†to FA’s in need? I can see the favoritism now and I can see you popping a coronary when you find out who in Crew skd is making those decisions. You obviously have not come to visit us other wise you would not be making that request. Besides, we have such flexible jobs it is, in my opinion, not needed. As long as Skymess does not have an attendance issue, calling in for a PO for that one day would not be an issue. As someone else pointed out, she also has the opportunity to fly the 6 days before or fly a red eye into the day she needs …. or countless other ways to get out of having to fly that day.
Not sure who's job it is to publish the contracts and really don't care to be quite honest. The fact that it is not online is just plain stupid. I see know reason why it should be printed though. Aside from the cost, it is envirnonmentaly unsound to print 20k contracts. This is 2005 after all. Everyone has access to the internet.
TWAnr
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 1,003
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Where does it state in the contract that days off cannot be moved for legitimate reasons?
Most large corporate entities accommodate employees in such matters and as a result enjoy much better employer-employee relations. It is a win win situation for all concerned.
With proper training and guidelines favoritism will not be an issue.
Garfield1966
Veteran
The way most of interpret the contract is by looking at what it says you can do. If it does not say we can do it, we assume we cannot. The contract does not say what food you may eat for instance. If the contract does not say we can move AVBL days for "legitimate reasons" then we cannot and we tend not to. Our job is to make sure we have adequate manning to staff the flights. Pretty much all our actions are based on that. Are exceptions made? Yes and most of us know who makes them. Should they be made? I don’t know. Guess that depends on whether or not you had an exception made for you or not. Guidelines an interpretation are a funny thing. One person could say that Skymess had 3 months to figure out how to get the day she needs off and that an exception is not warranted. Some other person could say it is warranted. If you think favoritism will not be an issue you are quite the optimist. There are 17k FA's, a hundred members of management all with different personalities. And all it takes is for one person to #### about what was done and it all blows up. I say that Skymess deserves to have the day off for what ever reason and I allow her to move the day. You come back a month later and say you need a day for X, (I really do not care what X is but it is important to you and cannot be moved) and someone else says no. You file a grievance because you think it is unfair the way your exception request was handled. How long do you think that policy will last.
The point I am trying to make is that if everyone is not treated the same with very year and precise guidelines at some point it will blow up. The current process for moving AVBL days is flawed already. You send in a request and we basically take a WAG at if we think we will need you. There are no hard and fast rules for it. I have no way of predicting how many people I will need on a given day. We assume that we will need more people in the beginning and end of the month. We assume we will need more of fri/sat and sun. We don't know for certain. I have cut AVBL loose on all those days as well as holidays at some time or another because someone guessed wrong. There are no hard and fast rules for it. At some point someone is going to get fed up and complain and there is a good possibility that the option to move AVBL days will go away (which is fine by me). I don't have kids but how many times have you heard a child say "but you did it for Billy last time" or something similar. Have you any idea how many times I hear that?
I hear that?
I have a request for you. Please define "a legitimate reason" that can be applied to all situations. For application purposes, I need to know conditions under which I must apply this rule, any time lines which apply to your rule ...etc. I'm curious what it will look like. I have tried a few on my own and I can always find problems with it that do not apply. BTW, I can pretty much guarantee that any definition that would allow Skymess to get her day moved would not fly for Crew Skd. The view would be that anyone who have 3 months fo figure out how to get the day off had more than ample opportunity to get the day off without an exception being made.
According to the union, AA is responsible for the costs associated with printing and distributing the new contract. Well, they are really taking their time and I can only assume being really thorough with it. It is almost 2006 and we still don't have the 2003 contract. Maybe former ModerAAter can get them to hurry up over there at HDQ.
operaations
Veteran
- Jul 31, 2003
- 562
- 0
Ok let me try to shed some light on this with out pissing people off.
Crew sched does not care about you. (worng) as people we do care and wish there were alot we can do. As schedulers we are bound by certain rules and we are hated for them. Garfield is right the minute i say your reason for a day off is better for someone elses is the minute someone crys foul and the entire thing blows up in my face.
Garfield is not bad he is just sick of the whining and the threatening every year of if you do not do as i ask I will call in sick. I can not get it through his head to just let it be. It is causing him an ulcer.
If on flight attendant wants to screw her crew by calling in sick and make the flight go out understaffed because she wanted to see her kids game or a doctors appointmen or what ever so be it. I am not the one that is putting the burden on your crew mates and making them work extra hard so I move right along.
This is for BOB. the 911 post you made earlier I agree with you and Garfield. I just think he did not explain it good enough. We were adives that under no circumstances are we allowed to release crew. I did not ask why I just do as I am told. If you needed to get home and were told no than by all means go.. I would not hold it against you at all but dont get pissy because i said no because i was told to say no.
Grow up and quit blaming us for what you hate in your JOB
Crew sched does not care about you. (worng) as people we do care and wish there were alot we can do. As schedulers we are bound by certain rules and we are hated for them. Garfield is right the minute i say your reason for a day off is better for someone elses is the minute someone crys foul and the entire thing blows up in my face.
Garfield is not bad he is just sick of the whining and the threatening every year of if you do not do as i ask I will call in sick. I can not get it through his head to just let it be. It is causing him an ulcer.
If on flight attendant wants to screw her crew by calling in sick and make the flight go out understaffed because she wanted to see her kids game or a doctors appointmen or what ever so be it. I am not the one that is putting the burden on your crew mates and making them work extra hard so I move right along.
This is for BOB. the 911 post you made earlier I agree with you and Garfield. I just think he did not explain it good enough. We were adives that under no circumstances are we allowed to release crew. I did not ask why I just do as I am told. If you needed to get home and were told no than by all means go.. I would not hold it against you at all but dont get pissy because i said no because i was told to say no.
Grow up and quit blaming us for what you hate in your JOB
B
B.O.B.
Guest
With comments like that, you wonder why we do what we do!
FYI, practice what you preach buddy.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Well "way back when" the company made promises, similar to the promises they are making now that these sacrifices are an investment, not a donation, but in the past after the sacrifices were made the company no longer regarded them as investments. They changed the terms, and will likely do so in the future. All Arpeys talk of sacrificing for a future is bull, all he intends on delivering in the future is less than he is today! The fact is the company was and is actively being deceptive. It has no intentions on ever paying its employees a livable wage.
You say the company's only obligation is to make money. Therefore whatever it does, no matter how deceptive and immoral to its employees is acceptable, however you hold employees to a higher standard. If the company treats their workers this way why should you be suprised or agravated when the employees are less than honest or reliable in their dealings towards the company?
Say what you want but the company should be thankful that anybody shows up at all on Christmas or other Holidays. They want to run a 24 x 7 x 365 operation but expect to pay wages and benifits that companies who work around the fact that human beings are not designed to work under those conditions pay. Yes the airlines were always 24 x 7 x 365 opertations but they used to offer more to make up for it.
Garfield1966
Veteran
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
- 4,265
- 4
TP these company bootlickers are brainwashed! get ready for the reply "If you don't like it quit" or "just be glad you have a job" or "their are thousands waiting to take your place". They say the companies only obligation is to make money, well my only obligation is to GOD and family. Going above and beyond went out the window along time ago, along with my loyalty!
TWAnr
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 1,003
- 0
There is a process. Just as I knew there was. If it needs to be tweaked with an LOA, so be it.
Skymess' situation is a perfect example of a legitimate need, a medical appointment that had to be made months in advance and which is not easily changed or rescheduled.
By the way, just because Skymess knew of it three months in advance does not mean that Skymess could hold an AVBL line that accommodates that need.
The fact that they have not distributed copies of the contract after two years is indicative of the contempt that the company feels for the contract and those who work under it.
Every month they manage to print and distribute thousands of copies of American Way but they cant fulfill their part of the agreement?
Garfield1966
Veteran
Bidding is only one way of getting the day off.
Like I said, this is one example. Show me a set of guidelines that can be used in a contractual, seniority based environment. I have tried and I cannot come up with one that will work.
Good points.
I tried to get the day off. It didn't work out bidding. Now I can plot myself on that day but there is no guarantee I would be able to get rid of the trip by dropping to another crew member or trading it with open time. I basically have my hands tied and must get a PO for the day.
It is kind of silly that I can't trade it and be available 5 days later and instead must get a PO and not be available to the company that day or a later day. Those are the rules though and that is just how it has to be. I can't concern myself with things I have no control over.
If I were to stress myself out about everything that AA does wrong I'd be dead already from a massive stroke.
