Get Ready Boyz!

[Raptor]

Good points Raptor, but might I add that some also "use" the union official's soft stance on items to cloak their own unwillingness to show aggressivenesss. To many have become comfortable with their style of living and are suspect of a change. They lay blame to their leadership, thus labelling themselves as sheep.

I'd like to see our floor's posture be one of "strike" and openly agree to each other that it is the only way to either save our profession or keep from whoring it at lower wages.

[post="201198"][/post]​

I agree with you on this one Nightwatch

And Ken I am all for fighting against the company including striking but when and if we do that we will not be the first to have tried it, many other Airline employee's have tried it before us and they have all lost the battle, that is what I believe will happen at US Air, United and eventually us, it is not a matter of whether to fight on not fight, I believe we must fight but in the end I am sure that the company's will win and we will lose, I think we are getting ready to see that at United they have AMFA as a Union and I have no doubt that they will fight as hard as they can but I also have no doubt that they will lose this battle, and in the end the company will have gotten what they wanted wether it was given to them or taken from the employee's We are fighting a losing battle no matter what Union is representing us, I do think that Industrial Unions and craft Unions both are on their way out, I think most of our Aircraft Jobs are headed over sea's and their is nothing we can do to stop it, this is the future it is all part of are one world order The strenght in numbers game only works as long as the company's want you to work for them, once they want someone in another country to work for them instead of you, numbers mean nothing what Union represents you means nothing, the past Unionized steel workers can attest to that.

I think the days of Airlines doing their own Heavy Maintenance are going away real soon and when that happens there won't be enough of us A&P Mechanics left working to matter what Union we have.

There was a time when I thought that there was something we could do to stop the Airlines from taking our pay and benefits from us but now I do not, I think that they are going to take them no matter what we do, all we can do is what the Mechanics at Pan AM and other past Airlines have done survive as best we can wether it be at the Airline for crap wages and benefits or at Home Depot in the paint Dept.
I was right all along about the NMB thing and I am pretty sure I am right about this, once again I am not saying don't fight back I am just saying start polishing up those resumes cause were ALL going to lose this battle, AMFA TWU IAM IBT everyone <_< except the Pilots and the stews they will live to fight another day as it is pretty difficult to send their jobs over sea's B)

I don't see myself as a pessimist or an optimist just a realist, We will soon see if it matters what Union we are in with the United/AMFA battle settled by the end of January, my bet is on United, although it should be noted that United is going to beat the Pilots ( real bad ) and the stews as well, the Pilots are the toughest in the Airline Industry as they have the most clout and they are the one's who will be spanked the hardest when their pensions are reduced to $44,000 ( OUCH !!! )

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I agree with you on this one Nightwatch

And Ken I am all for fighting against the company including striking but when and if we do that we will not be the first to have tried it, many other Airline employee's have tried it before us and they have all lost the battle, that is what I believe will happen at US Air, United and eventually us, it is not a matter of whether to fight on not fight, I believe we must fight but in the end I am sure that the company's will win and we will lose, I think we are getting ready to see that at United they have AMFA as a Union and I have no doubt that they will fight as hard as they can but I also have no doubt that they will lose this battle, and in the end the company will have gotten what they wanted wether it was given to them or taken from the employee's We are fighting a losing battle no matter what Union is representing us, I do think that Industrial Unions and craft Unions both are on their way out, I think most of our Aircraft Jobs are headed over sea's and their is nothing we can do to stop it, this is the future it is all part of are one world order The strenght in numbers game only works as long as the company's want you to work for them, once they want someone in another country to work for them instead of you, numbers mean nothing what Union represents you means nothing, the past Unionized steel workers can attest to that.

I think the days of Airlines doing their own Heavy Maintenance are going away real soon and when that happens there won't be enough of us A&P Mechanics left working to matter what Union we have.

There was a time when I thought that there was something we could do to stop the Airlines from taking our pay and benefits from us but now I do not, I think that they are going to take them no matter what we do, all we can do is what the Mechanics at Pan AM and other past Airlines have done survive as best we can wether it be at the Airline for crap wages and benefits or at Home Depot in the paint Dept.
I was right all along about the NMB thing and I am pretty sure I am right about this, once again I am not saying don't fight back I am just saying start polishing up those resumes cause were ALL going to lose this battle, AMFA TWU IAM IBT everyone <_< except the Pilots and the stews they will live to fight another day as it is pretty difficult to send their jobs over sea's B)

I don't see myself as a pessimist or an optimist just a realist, We will soon see if it matters what Union we are in with the United/AMFA battle settled by the end of January, my bet is on United, although it should be noted that United is going to beat the Pilots ( real bad ) and the stews as well, the Pilots are the toughest in the Airline Industry as they have the most clout and they are the one's who will be spanked the hardest when their pensions are reduced to $44,000 ( OUCH !!! )

[post="201389"][/post]​

Raptor,

You pointed out that AMFA will fight at UAL. That is because the members want them to fight FOR them. When they do fight we ALL need to do what we did when AMFA fought NWA and a PEB. We need to come to each others aid! This concept is foreign to the twu, ibt & iam in recent history. It will be up to Tulsa AMTs, NY AMTs, SAN AMTs, etc. to walk alongside each other when the time comes.

There is something we can do to stop airlines from taking our wages and benefits but the UNELECTED international officers of the twu, iam & ibt FEAR doing this! Right now as we sit at our keyboards and address these issues where is the afl-cio? Why isn't the afl-cio taking out billboard signs, canvasing the news talk shows and TELLING the public as well as all the elected political officials in Washington, (which the twu supporters say are the afl-cio's strength), as to what is happening to AMERICA'S work force? Will it take a hole in the ground from crappy maintenance done by some third world, third party facility before industrial unions in the airlines do something?

Where the Hell is jim little? Hey, the AMFA "raid" has been defeated. Right? Why isn't he raising Hell? Oh, that's right, UAL & USAir are not his problem. That's "their" problem. Well, jim little and the rest of the over paid, underworked UNELECTED industrial twu international officers are the problem. Where is bobby gless? This guy can't even go back to JFK and talk with the LINE AMTs because he knows the reception he will get. And this is a "leader" in the twu?

You can look at yourself as a pessimist or realist or agnostic. But what you need to do is act like the professional Aircraft Maintenance Technician that we are. And fight for our craft & profession. If the twu will not fight for our proud craft and AMFA will the choice is easy.

AMFA... a union that will fight for you and besides you.

twu... an organization that will fight against you... beside you and behind you! h34r:

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

You pointed out that AMFA will fight at UAL. That is because the members want them to fight FOR them. When they do fight we ALL need to do what we did when AMFA fought NWA and a PEB. We need to come to each others aid! This concept is foreign to the twu, ibt & iam in recent history. It will be up to Tulsa AMTs, NY AMTs, SAN AMTs, etc. to walk alongside each other when the time comes.

There is something we can do to stop airlines from taking our wages and benefits but the UNELECTED international officers of the twu, iam & ibt FEAR doing this! Right now as we sit at our keyboards and address these issues where is the afl-cio? Why isn't the afl-cio taking out billboard signs, canvasing the news talk shows and TELLING the public as well as all the elected political officials in Washington, (which the twu supporters say are the afl-cio's strength), as to what is happening to AMERICA'S work force? Will it take a hole in the ground from crappy maintenance done by some third world, third party facility before industrial unions in the airlines do something?

Where the Hell is jim little? Hey, the AMFA "raid" has been defeated. Right? Why isn't he raising Hell? Oh, that's right, UAL & USAir are not his problem. That's "their" problem. Well, jim little and the rest of the over paid, underworked UNELECTED industrial twu international officers are the problem. Where is bobby gless? This guy can't even go back to JFK and talk with the LINE AMTs because he knows the reception he will get. And this is a "leader" in the twu?

You can look at yourself as a pessimist or realist or agnostic. But what you need to do is act like the professional Aircraft Maintenance Technician that we are. And fight for our craft & profession. If the twu will not fight for our proud craft and AMFA will the choice is easy.

AMFA... a union that will fight for you and besides you.

twu... an organization that will fight against you... beside you and behind you! h34r:

[post="201478"][/post]​

Ken I am not willing to choose between Unions right now when we are in the middle of our toughest fight ever with the company and I think many others feel the same way atleast the people that I have talked to, but what I will do it stand beside anyone who is willing to fight against the company in this battle of endless concessions, regardless of what Union they may support, we are the one's who will ultimatly decide on wether to fight of not, it makes little difference what the Union leaders want, we out number them by quite a bit and it would not be the first time the members did not do what the leaders wanted, but don't be to surprised if the majority of MEMBERS in Tulsa vote for more concessions, I wouldn't think that they would but Tulsa MEMBERS do not have alot of back bone, most people down here allready sound whipped to me, and ya I know I sound whipped as well but they are even worse. <_<
If the TWU supporters and the AMFA supporters can work together to fight the company (something I doubt can happen) then we may be able to atleast give the company one hell of a battle. If not well theres always the paint department at Home Depot for me or maybe Walmart greeter, I can't decide. :unsure:

 

[767 mechanic]

Raptor............You need to get your meds refilled. The company and jim little just raped you. Your a dumba$$ and there coming back for more. This time they want you to swallow. You spinless piece of crap. Do you think you might fight this time or are you going to say Well................I'm just happy to have a job. Now I know why the Tulsa organizers kicked your a$$ out.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken I am not willing to choose between Unions right now when we are in the middle of our toughest fight ever with the company and I think many others feel the same way atleast the people that I have talked to, but what I will do it stand beside anyone who is willing to fight against the company in this battle of endless concessions, regardless of what Union they may support, we are the one's who will ultimatly decide on wether to fight of not, it makes little difference what the Union leaders want,


Well that may be true but isnt it also true that you make your decisions in part based upon all the information you have at your disposal? The fact is that the TWU only put out information to the members that promoted the idea of a yes vote while remaining pretty much silent about how bad the effects were going to be. Also the information they put out was misleading and unidirectional, claiming that the outcomes were narrow and certain when in fact there could have been many diffuerent outcomes from a NO vote. The TWU cited past BK cases where the company was successful in abrogating the contracts but, at least in the Printers case the contract was onerous, it required that the failing company keep workers whose skills were no longer applicable to the modern processes of printing. The TWU failed to present any arguement in favor of defending what we fought to gain over the last 50 years. If not for Local 562 you guys would not have heard any dissenting arguement against the concessions.

So while you may think that it makes little difference what they want, reality, and you say that you are a realist, is quite different when those same people are the ones providing the information that the members are using to make a decision. What they want can make all the difference because by the time the members get the rest of the information its too late. Then the TWU sits back and says "You guys voted for it".

we out number them by quite a bit and it would not be the first time the members did not do what the leaders wanted, but don't be to surprised if the majority of MEMBERS in Tulsa vote for more concessions, I wouldn't think that they would but Tulsa MEMBERS do not have alot of back bone, most people down here allready sound whipped to me, and ya I know I sound whipped as well but they are even worse. <_<

Well maybe they simply have not needed one yet. I hear that $50k still can keep you quite comfortable down there. What they foolishly do not realize is that at this point, since they have thouroughly alienated the line guys, if the company should get greedy and want Overhaul at $10 per hour they could get it. At that point they may grow a backbone but could they reasonbly expect the line guys to join their fight? Whithout the line guys how effective would their fight be?

The TWU has created this mess, and yes it does matter. If you elect officers that stand up to the International they will either remove them or isolate them. Dont think that Tulsa is too big, their 6000 is nothing compared to Local 100s 38,000.

A recent letter from Local 100 to Charles Rangel, US Congressman, who tried to broker peace between the International and Local 100 said that the International is now primarlily made up of people from small but "loyal" locals. Two out of the top five come from locals that no longer exist, while the other three are out of locals with a combined membership of well under 2,000.

If the TWU supporters and the AMFA supporters can work together to fight the company (something I doubt can happen) then we may be able to atleast give the company one hell of a battle.


Thats the point, the TWU has NO INTENTIONS on fighting the company, they would rather fight its own members than fight the company.
If not well theres always the paint department at Home Depot for me or maybe Walmart greeter, I can't decide. :unsure:

[post="201484"][/post]​

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: Doe Killer
Email: The brush pile
Employer: NWA
Station: Been around a bit
Date: Tuesday November 16, 2004
Time: 03:53:30 PM


Comments
CHAOS you idiots...AMFA just missed last time getting their balls sued off by a MSP district court judge, can any of you Alzheimer's idiots remember that deal, no job actions at all anymore or else your dear national gets it in the rear! Also noticeably absent is any sense of intelligence by any of the last two days posters, you guys sound like a bunch of Neanderthals, I feel real warm and fuzzy knowing my future is in the hands of guys like you 3-4 I hope the rest of the AMT group is smarter than you guys if not 05/06 will be the end of the line for 2000 or more of us! By the way when you consider 80% of the line is in MSP or DTW, were the hell did anyone think the 38% farm outs would come from..the back of your asses???? The hanger rats you bunch of friggin Einstein's.....You all bought into Delle's #### and were paying the price now! ..better take the 15% cut and save our ass's that's were we would have been with the IAM >>>>>>uff daa !!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Name: Doe Killer
Email: The brush pile
Employer: NWA
Station: Been around a bit
Date: Tuesday November 16, 2004
Time: 03:53:30 PM
Comments
CHAOS you idiots...AMFA just missed last time getting their balls sued off by a MSP district court judge, can any of you Alzheimer's idiots remember that deal, no job actions at all anymore or else your dear national gets it in the rear! Also noticeably absent is any sense of intelligence by any of the last two days posters, you guys sound like a bunch of Neanderthals, I feel real warm and fuzzy knowing my future is in the hands of guys like you 3-4 I hope the rest of the AMT group is smarter than you guys if not 05/06 will be the end of the line for 2000 or more of us! By the way when you consider 80% of the line is in MSP or DTW, were the hell did anyone think the 38% farm outs would come from..the back of your asses???? The hanger rats you bunch of friggin Einstein's.....You all bought into Delle's #### and were paying the price now! ..better take the 15% cut and save our ass's that's were we would have been with the IAM >>>>>>uff daa !!!!!!

[post="201495"][/post]​

So where did this pop up from? The-mechanic.com, which used that format has been closed down.

 

[James T. Kirk]

Name: The Truth
Email:
Employer: NWA
Station: MSP
Date: Tuesday November 16, 2004
Time: 10:36:54 AM


Comments
To Big Dog.
Hey Big Dog, where are you? Are you ready to admit that AMFA screwed the Airline Industry? Where is The Mechanic? Now that the AMFA members need him the most he runs and hides like a P......... Why is AMFA negotiating concession on UAL? Why is AMFA negotiating concessions on ATA? Why did AMFA negotiate concessions on SWA? I just don't see enough AMFA people coming to this Board and saying that they made a mistake. A huge mistake. The Airline industry was going through a tough time again, I realize that. but the IAM never gave away jobs as fast as AMFA. It all started here at NWA. 38% farm-out, 100% farm-out, closing of major bases (Atlanta). What do you say BIG DOG? Where is AMFA now? AMFA always said stay out of politics? Now The Mechanic blames the AMT's for not participating in the legislative arena. My, my, how things change. Something don't change though, AMFA fails again and the AMT's don't speak up, they just let AMFA keep making deals... The AMFA-McCormick group is no longer a craft union, they have Flight/Attendants also. They want to represent RAMP also. God.............. can't some people see this scam. Don't you see the SCAM BIG DOG. SPEAK UP MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you think we should be signing cards right now............. BIG DOG SPEAK UP, IT NEVER STOPPED YOU BEFORE. BETTER YET WHY DON'T YOU SIGN AN "A" CARD FOR THE IAM TODAY. LET ME HERE FROM YOU BIG DOG. or are you tired and beaten like many AMT's. Are you too defeated, I hope Not Brother. just say you made a mistake and lets fix what we can before its too late. BTW, Where is Delle?

 

[Raptor]

Raptor............You need to get your meds refilled. The company and jim little just raped you. Your a dumba$$ and there coming back for more. This time they want you to swallow. You spinless piece of crap. Do you think you might fight this time or are you going to say Well................I'm just happy to have a job. Now I know why the Tulsa organizers kicked your a$$ out.

[post="201489"][/post]​

I do like my drugs , I know the company raped me the TWU did nothing to me, I voted the way I wanted not the way the TWU wanted me to vote I have my own mind and I do not take the TWU leaders suggestions if I don't like them, as far as fighting I voted NO on the concession it was the Majority that said NO to fighting not me I was ready to fight, and No one kicked me out of anywhere I don't know where you get your information from but I said from the very beginning of the drive that I was ONLY in it for the ONE drive not drive after drive after drive and that I was willing to give it everything I had for the ONE year, I did that ALL year long right up till the end, I spent my money, alot of my time and got alot of cards signed, I also said that I would support the winner atleast to a point, the TWU won so I am doing what I said I would do from day one, I am keeping my word you may not like that but that would be your problem not mine.

So deal with it 767 it is time for you to spend your money and time fighting to get AMFA in if that is what you want, it is time for me to try and figure out what my next career is going to be when we lose this battle with the Airline and Overhaul is history. Once again I am not saying we should not go down without a fight I am saying that when the dust settles we will lose but as Bob says atleast they will respect us for putting up one hell of a fight, that is providing my fellow A&P Mechanics here in Tulsa are willing to fight instead of voting yes on the next concession and that is something I have no control over, I only have one vote as do you.

Relax 767 it sounds like you need to start taking drugs to help chill you out some, you are way too intense dude. B)

 

[Decision 2004]

Yep,

I can see all that UNITY now.

Just look at the postings by the bus fume addicts.

As soon as the TWU worshippers in Tulsa find out that a Nation Wide Strike would open up their job security provisions to a successful force majeure claim by AA, there will not be anything but cowards left. All this big talk about walkouts will turn into boot shakin Okies without any nads.

Lucky to Have a Job will be pounded into their heads by TWU leadership.

 

[Raptor]

There is no Unity and there never will be that is just one more reason why we will lose to the company, we would lose even if we were United at AA but not being United will make it much easier for AA to spank us.

Start looking for a new career are days are numbered, stay away from the paint dept. at Home Depot that job is mine.

 

[Decision 2004]

There is no Unity and there never will be that is just one more reason why we will lose to the company, we would lose even if we were United at AA but not being United will make it much easier for AA to spank us.

Start looking for a new career are days are numbered, stay away from the paint dept. at Home Depot that job is mine.

[post="201515"][/post]​

Then why don't you a least have the courtesy to leave the line guys with AMFA before you surrender?

 

[Raptor]

I might just do that but I am not surrendering just yet, I am willing to fight the company if everyone else in Tulsa is willing to fight with me.

we will just have to wait and see what happens, whatever happens I don't think we will have long to wait.

Besides as I told Bob when Overhaul is gone the door for AMFA will be wide open, No more Tulsa guys to stop it from happening.

 

[Decision 2004]

I might just do that but I am not surrendering just yet, I am willing to fight the company if everyone else in Tulsa is willing to fight with me.

[post="201520"][/post]​

You best look to the line guys for courage.

It is now more popular to suck a$$ in Tulsa than be a strong union advocate.

 

[Raptor]

A new Union won't change that attitude. :huh: