From the ALPA site

[Busdrvr]

I was working for this airline while most of you were going thru puberty. So you categorize that as a non-event while the years (useful towards your argument) are selectively put into play. Sound even handed?

Look, I was furloughed by no fault of my own. And yes, I work for a company that is very volatile during hard economic times (something about the North East market you will soon come to learn). But all the while, I have been a Pilot, an ALPA Pilot. No sense of entitlement. Just demanding what I have earned. Can you seriously look to the bottom of your list (and I say this realizing that they are most likely fine aviators as well) and say that yes, they should enjoy seniority above 18 year Pilots at AAA? That in fact, their two years buys them the right to step over us? Come on.

I hope that you realize that the words I used to reflect how you sound to me make sense.

Got Marshmallows?

When I showed up at UAL, there were pilots 10 years younger than me with a fraction of my experience in my class. And due to my last 4, they are above me on the seniority list FOREVER!! As a matter of fact, the F-n idiots in the hiring dept ignored my change of address when I moved, which cost me about 4 months of seniority. Fair? HE11 YES!! It's the rules. Get over it. Did you know ALPA merger policy? Did you know about arbitration when you accepted recall? Were you unemployed while furloughed, or did leave another job to go back to U?

Frankly, the threat that you'll "burn the place down" rings hollow from someone who just accepted recall (and didn't bypass) to come back to some of the lowest pay rates in the industry. Good luck with that. I'm sure you'll be snapped right up by Skybus.

 

[Mr Furlough]

When I showed up at UAL, there were pilots 10 years younger than me with a fraction of my experience in my class. And due to my last 4, they are above me on the seniority list FOREVER!! As a matter of fact, the F-n idiots in the hiring dept ignored my change of address when I moved, which cost me about 4 months of seniority. Fair? HE11 YES!! It's the rules. Get over it. Did you know ALPA merger policy? Did you know about arbitration when you accepted recall? Were you unemployed while furloughed, or did leave another job to go back to U?

Frankly, the threat that you'll "burn the place down" rings hollow from someone who just accepted recall (and didn't bypass) to come back to some of the lowest pay rates in the industry. Good luck with that. I'm sure you'll be snapped right up by Skybus.

Showing up for a new job and working for the same company are two completely different things. As you know, there are no lateral job moves in aviation-because of the seniority system.

"Did you know about arbitration when you accepted recall?"
Of course I did, it was in progress when I was recalled-not ruled upon. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

"Get over it."
Don't even try to tell me what to do skippy.

You're trying to argue an issue without even talking about the issue. You use examples like when I went to another company, they lost my paper work, you came back to the lowest wages in the industry.

Come on dude!!! You can do better than that.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Mr. Furlough,
The day you returned from furlough, were you on the bottom of the USAir seniority list?

Wow prechilill, your a genius! You've under covered the manner in which one group can have another groups longevity thrown out!

Today, I have a couple hundred beneath me on our list. 11 years ago, I held a Captain position with this airline. 5 years ago, I had 1600 pilots junior to me.

No matter the dressing up you do, those darn 18 years will keep coming back into this argument. As they are mine, and I have earned them.

 

[prechilill]

No matter the dressing up you do, those darn 18 years will keep coming back into this argument. As they are mine, and I have earned them.

You may emphasize your 18 years of service but unfortunately for you it does not change anything in your current situation, much like it didn't help the Eastern, PanAm or Braniff pilots. The common denominator is years of service does not equate to equal seniority at another airline, such as America West Airlines. The Eastern pilots that went on strike and were later hired by United had to start at the bottom- they were afforded no special treatment based on their service at another carrier. When merging a seniority list, there is not one measure which encompasses the complexities which go with integration- it requires many different parameters to reach a fair result. ALPA correctly understands this principle. The sooner you and your colleagues come to understand this the better you all will be.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Are you a line crosser too?? Are you just upset?? Maybe your screen name says it all
[/quote]


How many SCABS does AWA still have flying? I bet you dont even know who they are do you?

 

[Mr Furlough]

You may emphasize your 18 years of service but unfortunately for you it does not change anything in your current situation, much like it didn't help the Eastern, PanAm or Braniff pilots. The common denominator is years of service does not equate to equal seniority at another airline, such as America West Airlines. The Eastern pilots that went on strike and were later hired by United had to start at the bottom- they were afforded no special treatment based on their service at another carrier. When merging a seniority list, there is not one measure which encompasses the complexities which go with integration- it requires many different parameters to reach a fair result. ALPA correctly understands this principle. The sooner you and your colleagues come to understand this the better you all will be.

Last time I checked, my paychecks say usairways. Same as they have for my entire tenore. This is not a job change. The sooner you and your colleagues come to understand this the better you all will be.

 

[73320]

Last time I checked, my paychecks say usairways. Same as they have for my entire tenore. This is not a job change. The sooner you and your colleagues come to understand this the better you all will be.

Mr. Furlough,
Can you explain your views on this merger in greater detail. From your post it appears that because your paycheck says US Airways, you believe that the list should remain the same as before the merger and that the west pilots should be what? .... What is your fair outcome for them?

If that is so, and the company chose to keep the America West name and your pay stubs reflected that, does that change your view of how the list should read?

What if the company chose a new name like Song, oops... that one is already taken, how about Yodel, would that constitute a new company and then also change the dynamics of seniority?

Thanks

 

[CaptainZitface]

Last time I checked, my paychecks say usairways.

But they're mailed from AWA headquarters in Tempe, AZ. I knew those geniuses in marketing screwed up when they decided to keep the USAirways name.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Mr. Furlough,
Can you explain your views on this merger in greater detail. From your post it appears that because your paycheck says US Airways, you believe that the list should remain the same as before the merger and that the west pilots should be what? .... What is your fair outcome for them?

If that is so, and the company chose to keep the America West name and your pay stubs reflected that, does that change your view of how the list should read?

What if the company chose a new name like Song, oops... that one is already taken, how about Yodel, would that constitute a new company and then also change the dynamics of seniority?

Thanks

Well I'm dumfounded as to why this needs to be explained, but here we go. I currently work for the same company as I have for some 18+ years. I have not resigned my seniority number, nor has my company gone out of business, liquidated nor spun off. Same company, another merger (we have had 3 mergers since my initial employment). Therefore, the years of service stick. My pay rates, amount of vacation, ect., are based upon years of service.

In terms of my expectations are concerned, I fully expected my years of service to count for something. I also expected that I would most likely would have lost some of the attrition potential, but not all of it. I will never agree that a pilot with 18 years should be furloughed prior to someone with less tenor. And I will never except having to be in the right seat for the remainder of my career. If a Pilot is young in this company today, there is plenty of time for that Pilot to move up, and realize a good career-assuming we make it. For me, I have less than 15 years to educate my kids, and continue to build enough for retirement. Being furloughed ahead of the two year wonder boy would drive an irreversible stake in the heart of those plans.

You guys seem all too excepting of the notion that years of service count for nothing. Further, you are understandable quick to ask "why should we have to bear a portion of your problems". Well, the answer is because your company entered into a merger with us, that's why. And while you ask the prementioned question, ask yourselves this, why should all of the east pilots absorb all of the bad.

Hope this helps.

 

[michael707767]

Well I'm dumfounded as to why this needs to be explained, but here we go. I currently work for the same company as I have for some 18+ years. I have not resigned my seniority number, nor has my company gone out of business, liquidated nor spun off. Same company, another merger

As you said yourself.....another merger. Guess what, you are not at the same company you started with. Once a merger happens, be it an outright merger, and acquisition or being acquired, but a merger means it is no longer the same company. Now, this could work to your advantage, it may not. But it is not the same company.

 

[flybynite]

I know I'm going to get Flamed for this but what the hell...my insurance is paid up.

If you had an Earthling job, and you had been laid off, and got a new job in the same field, you would be credited for your expertise and would be paid accordingly. You would also be put ahead of other earthlings for promotions because of said expertise.

So...why do AWA pilots think they should get the jobs ahead of the laid off US pilots who have more years of service & expertise?

Why do the AWA pilots think it's just fine and dandy to disrespect the fine aviators who were laid off and completely disreguard thier years of service and hard work?

The award is shamefull and those who support it need to look in the mirror.

 

[AWA320]

I know I'm going to get Flamed for this but what the hell...my insurance is paid up.

If you had an Earthling job, and you had been laid off, and got a new job in the same field, you would be credited for your expertise and would be paid accordingly. You would also be put ahead of other earthlings for promotions because of said expertise.

So...why do AWA pilots think they should get the jobs ahead of the laid off US pilots who have more years of service & expertise?

Why do the AWA pilots think it's just fine and dandy to disrespect the fine aviators who were laid off and completely disreguard thier years of service and hard work?

The award is shamefull and those who support it need to look in the mirror.

According to this logic why don't we go out and get the Pan Am pilots that lost their jobs and shoot them right tothe top of the list . Hell while we're at it lets just take the Tdub folks and put them up there too?? In fact all furloughed from what ever airline you're from come on down and get top of the list billing.

Stupid statement pal!! In the REAL world when one is laid off they don't go to another company and take up space ahead of others simply because they did it longer. Only pilots have this skewed sense of logic and entitlement...

 

[awausairtech]

why do AWA pilots think they should get the jobs ahead of the laid off US pilots who have more years of service & expertise?
(IT WAS THEIR JOB THEY BROUGHT TO THE NEW AIRLINE) :huh:
Why do the AWA pilots think it's just fine and dandy to disrespect the fine aviators who were laid off and completely disreguard thier years of service and hard work?
(WELCOME TO THE AIRLINES)
The award is shamefull and those who support it need to look in the mirror.

Why do you think it's fair to replace a man who was Working because of a merger and put him on the street because the other airline employee wants his job and or A/C which he brought to the merger. Shameful Look In The Mirror.

 

[flybynite]

According to this logic why don't we go out and get the Pan Am pilots that lost their jobs and shoot them right tothe top of the list . Hell while we're at it lets just take the Tdub folks and put them up there too?? In fact all furloughed from what ever airline you're from come on down and get top of the list billing.

Stupid statement pal!! In the REAL world when one is laid off they don't go to another company and take up space ahead of others simply because they did it longer. Only pilots have this skewed sense of logic and entitlement...

Well, darlin', you apparently have never worked in the real earthling world. B)

 

[flybynite]

Why do you think it's fair to replace a man who was Working because of a merger and put him on the street because the other airline employee wants his job and or A/C which he brought to the merger. Shameful Look In The Mirror.

Now you just hold on a second. This merger created a number of problems. We as co-workers shouldn't be "eating our young".

My thoughts on this are the award should have slotted everyone, furloughed pilots included, down the line.

Most of the pilots that I know will never return. They are working for JetBlue or Southwest.

But we have pilots now that have been recalled and they are now going to go the end of the line because of this award.!? Sorry, not fair.
They have waited and earned the right to be slotted according to thier senority and expertise.

They should not be treated like new hires.