kirkpatrick
Veteran
Nancy, I agree that there was flexibility gained in the concessions of the early nineties, but I still think the overall downhill slide began with Icahn's "leadership."
MK
From a TWA F/A....Where is the Hypocrisy?
- Thread starter galleyguy4u2
- Start date
MK
jimntx
Veteran
Mike, 6 months ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. In fact, if you could go back a year or two on this board, you would see posts from me that stated emphatically that "with the current attrition rate, it is not possible for the company to go another year, much less until July, 2008, with no recalls." However, here we are two years later and no recalls since I was recalled in Nov. 2004.
The cutback in flying is getting a little scary. At St. Louis, as of February, we now have 22% fewer lines on the bidsheet than when I was recalled in Nov. 2004. The base, however, is only 11% smaller manpower-wise than it was in Nov. 2004. Look at the bid award numbers.
Now, availability is only offered when all the lines/positions, reserve and vacation relief have been covered, and there are still line f/as that month with nothing to award to them. Those f/as are given availability. Now, a few statistics for February...
(Caveat: You have to assume that the numbers posted to the flight service website are accurate. A dicey assumption.
)SLT--26% of the active f/a roster is either on reserve or on availability this month.
DCA--27%
DFW--20%
SFO--28%
Every domestic base except ORD has 20% or more of the active base on reserve/availability this month. MIA has 21% of its total roster on reserve/availability. (MIA base page on the Flight Service website does not show a breakout between active and inactive f/as like the other base pages. But that just makes the numbers that much worse when compared to the other bases.)
The company is admitting to a systemwide overage of 300-325 f/as. However, 652 domestic f/as are on availability this month even with 1125 on reserve. These are f/as on a line month with no line/position to award them.
To make matters worse, there are, systemwide, another 641 f/as who are shown as a "NO BID" for February. It is not necessarily inactive f/as because the numbers do not match from one base to the next. In some cases there are more NO BIDs than inactives in the base; in others, there are more Inactives than NO BIDs. I have emailed flight service for a clarification on this category. I have not received a reply.
I'm beginning to think that the company will do whatever they have to do--including eliminating flying or giving it to AE--to avoid a recall. I've heard that they think that the former TW f/as will come back, go through training, work one trip, then quit/retire out of spite. (I guess because that is what they would do if what was done to the TW f/as was done to them.)
I still think its crazy that AA would conspire and possible let the competition get the best of them, or not take full advantage of opportunities just to keeps a couple thousand ex twa fa's out.
I admit stranger things have happened, but just seems to improbable to be true.
I admit stranger things have happened, but just seems to improbable to be true.
Mikey -
Several thousand is way too high a number. Officially, fewer than 2500 of us remain on the recall list and that number includes many who have retired. With retirements from the furloughed group and the fact that quite a few have joined other airlines, which requires the surrender of recall rights to AA, the number is likely to be significantly lower.
I suspect that if a recall were to be offered, 35% to 40% of those asked to return would decline. Remember, if we are fortunate enough to be asked back, we will be returning to available bases, as needed, without the benefit of any seniority. The demographics are such that many will be unable or unwilling to commute to a strange base on reserve living 8 to a crash pad. The days of the slumber party have long since past for many of us.
Personally, I would just like the opportunity to come back and fly long enough to leave with something to show for my 21 years, namely passes. Unlike some would lead you to believe, we will not receive much if anything in an AA pension. While we were given credit for our TWA seniority for vesting purposes in the AA plan, we received NO credit for longevity.
It really didn't have to be this way. There were ways this horrendous furlough and resulting seniority stagnation could have been avoided. It would have taken leadership on the part of APFA that at the time was sorely lacking. If there is one thing the former TWA flight attendants know, it is getting everything possible in return for a concessionary contract. Too bad our experience was squandered in preparing for the pitiful RPA fiasco.
The good news is there is still an opportunity to remedy the situation. But, just as before, it is going to take leadership and a lot of membership education. I hope APFA is up to it. I know the furloughed flight attendants are.
Hunter
Sorry - I was flying Friday - Sunday and I completely missed this one.
It was even more than that: AMR received over $850 million as compensation for the shutdown:
http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....1&SID=02-00 (page 2)
That doesn't count the money received in round two (more cash aid plus reimbursements for reinforced cockpit doors) in 2003.
Of course AMR was entitled to this money - the $5 billion total appropriated by Congress was based on total market share on September 11, 2001, and AA had paid hundreds of millions several months earlier to gain TWA's market share.
It's too damn bad that many fine TWA employees were kicked to the curb - but OBL and his 19 worthless pieces of human garbage assistants are to blame, not AA or any of its employees.
kirkpatrick
Veteran
That number will be gone by this summer at the current rate of attrition.
Jim, we heard the same thing when natives were trained to replace us in STL. How many actually quit, two? I doubt if anyone will actually give a month of their lives to sit through a month of drudgery in DFW to turn around and quit out of spite, when they can retire now with passes and insurance. Even the few junior ones still among us would gain nothing by such a move.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Recalls will come when the company can no longer sustain the operation without an unacceptable number of cancellations and shortages. No recall between now and July 2008 means either the company is carrying at least a thousand too many FA's and for some reason not furloughing them or offering various leaves, or that some as yet unannounced cutback of flight hours is coming up. That doesn't seem logical in light of the overall performance of the airline industry in general or AA in particular.
MK
jimntx
Veteran
Well, they just announced full-month bid leaves for March in almost all bases including SLT. (There have been bid leaves every month for several months at SLT.)
jimntx
Veteran
Now, a few statistics for February...
(Caveat: You have to assume that the numbers posted to the flight service website are accurate. A dicey assumption.
SLT--26% of the active f/a roster is either on reserve or on availability this month.
DFW--20%
MIA - 23%
DCA--27%
SFO--28%
Every domestic base except ORD has 20% or more of the active base on reserve/availability this month. The company is admitting to a systemwide overage of 300-325 f/as. However, 652 domestic f/as are on availability this month even with 1125 on reserve. These are f/as on a line month with no line/position to award them.
To make matters worse, there are, systemwide, another 641 f/as who are shown as a "NO BID" for February. It is not necessarily inactive f/as because the numbers do not match from one base to the next. In some cases there are more NO BIDs than inactives in the base; in others, there are more Inactives than NO BIDs. I have emailed flight service for a clarification on this category. I have not received a reply.
If you add Reserves, Availability, Vacation Relief and NO BIDs together into a single category of "No Regular Line Awarded", 41% of the active BOS domestic base falls into this category. In fact, ORD is the only domestic base where less than 30% of the active base falls into this category.
I got a count of Active vs. Inactive f/as in MIA-D. This changes the numbers slightly, but for the worse.
Just FYI, I heard that the base managers are getting grief because the Reserves/Availability f/as are not flying their guarantees. DUH! If there's nothing in Open Time, there's nothing in Open Time.
Mark don't forget that the 75's are just starting to leave. I think around one a month. I know that isn't even a drop in the bucket manning wise. But it probably pushes out the need till later in the year. I am amazed it has been as long as it has been without any recalls. I am hoping for the best.
OP
galleyguy4u2
Senior
- Aug 9, 2003
- 313
- 2
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #57
We know how tight your manning is in certain bases and thank you IORFA for your best wishes for our return. A few AA f/a's seem to think that we will return bitter and hope that we just fall off the recall list. We are bitter however in a different way. We are bitter at the IAM for signing away our SCOPE clause, we are bitter at John Ward who never wanted us to step foot on the AA property. We are NOT bitter at the working f/a. They had no say and they had no choice in what happened to the TWA f/a's.
In the next few months I predict those who are eligible to retire and are on the recall list will. If we are recalled you will see very few TWA f/a's returning. Many of us do not want to commute and serve reserve. And those that are able to return will be the best f/a's you could work with and I hope they will be welcomed back to the line. The TWA f/a's are part of my family and we are a very unified group. I can say that I was very proud to be a TWA f/a.
In the next few months I predict those who are eligible to retire and are on the recall list will. If we are recalled you will see very few TWA f/a's returning. Many of us do not want to commute and serve reserve. And those that are able to return will be the best f/a's you could work with and I hope they will be welcomed back to the line. The TWA f/a's are part of my family and we are a very unified group. I can say that I was very proud to be a TWA f/a.
jimntx
Veteran
Galleyguy, when I work F/C out of STL, I am often asked if I am a former TWA f/a--usually in connection with a positive comment on the service I provide. I consider that to be a real compliment.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
Jim, based on your posts here, I can tell you are a true gentleman, and an asset to AA.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
I would like to echo IORFA's sentiments. I posted several weeks ago on this board that a recall would benefit both working and furloughed flight attendants, and it is my wish to see it happen soon.
