No need to yell. Why are we rehashing this again? BK was a condition of the purchase to abrogate vendor and employee contracts. Period. It was a well crafted plan.
From a TWA F/A....Where is the Hypocrisy?
- Thread starter galleyguy4u2
- Start date
No need to yell. Why are we rehashing this again? BK was a condition of the purchase to abrogate vendor and employee contracts. Period. It was a well crafted plan.
Agree 1000 percent.
Carty got his way and Bill got to pocket millions at the TWA employees and retires expense, but AAfsc will never see it our way. His one track mind will never be changed until someone buy AA and the puts the shaft to him. Hopefully that day will come sooner rather than later.
Carty got his way and Bill got to pocket millions at the TWA employees and retires expense, but AAfsc will never see it our way. His one track mind will never be changed until someone buy AA and the puts the shaft to him. Hopefully that day will come sooner rather than later.
My reply is to the original post.
And to the person who wrote, "When did AMR become a welfare state?" My answer, the minute they went in front of Congress during the anti-trust hearings. The minute they told Congress that jobs would be protected. AA did not have to offer anything to the TWA retirees, but they did. No AA employee should have anything to say about that issue. It was part of the "deal". Likewise, AA did not HAVE to offer employment to the TWA employees. BUT they did, and they should be held to the promises they made to clear anti-trust. If anyone should understand being a casualty (not victim) of 9-11, American Airlines should and NO ONE should not be allowed to return to their career if they choose. This only reenforces that the terrorists won. Please don't jump on me for my references to 9-11. AA is the entity that keeps calling the continued layoff 9-11 related.
Yeah, things were so perfect at twa; so perfect that many ex-twa people QUIT twa and came to work for AA long before the asset purchase..so much for the "family" b.s. And I am glad I never had to work with such a miserable bitter person such as yourself; you make Bob Owens and the others look like happy campers. As for Carty, I agree, he was a liar and the absolute worst CEO AA ever had.
Your so bitter about what happened to twa that you want it to happen to AA. Unlike you at twa, I have not placed all my eggs in the AA basket; I learned that lesson being former EAL. You still have not answered my question. Did you inform evil AA that you no longer want passes and insurance?
In the f/a ranks, those that quit and went to other airlines fell into several categories, 1. Crossovers during the '86 strike. As full term strikers returned, many couldn't take the shame. 2. Those terminated from TWA 3. Those will little seniority to lose. When the acquisition occurred, my Jan. '70 seniority was 774 out of 4200. Ours was a group committed to excellence and after Ichan, we were determined to rebuild our product. The consistent JD-Powers recognition validated our efforts. Every Co has their problems and employee groups have their issues, but it didn't take the malcontents long to realize how great our TWA "family" really was when compared to the "corporate culture" at AA. Many AA f/as have been amazed at the organization skills of our little rag tag group. Look at our voting record. JW had to extend the illegal RPA vote because our block vote pushed the f/as into a "no" vote. Just an example of the character makeup of this group so many want to just "go away"; when my son was injured, my peers raised enough money (even though they all knew that they would be losing their jobs) for him to have an accessible Honda Oddessy. When some struggled, the others donated to We Care so that we could have a "no strings attached", "no hoops" fund as a safety net. No, we didn't "qualify for the WINGS Foundation. We are pro-active, great f/as, and some of the nicest people you will ever meet. We are intensely loyal. Strong unionist doesn't begin to describe the activism associated with the former TWA f/a. Look at the professional picketing that was conducted when the first were pushed off the seniority list in Oct. We're still waiting for word of the "wink wink" grievance. Please don't sell us short, the fat lady isn't even warming up yet.
So what you saying is that the twaers should be guaranteed a job for life at AA no matter what? NAAtives themselves have no such guarantee from AA; and we would be entitled to that before any twaer if AA ever made such an impossible promise. You are right that AA did not have to offer anything to the twa inc. retirees but they did AND THEY ARE FULLY HONORING THE AGREEMENT. What this AA employee is responding to is the fact that twaokc is b1tching and complaining that he "got screwed" when the truth is that AA is totally honoring the agreement to the letter that they entered into; the twa inc. retirees'attorney said as much and recommended that their lawsuit be dropped; which it was. twaokc has yet to state whether or not he has cancelled the AA health insurance and passes. AA also fulfilled it's promise to the twa employees regarding employment; it hired just about all it's domestic employees and put them on the AA payroll where they got a substantial raise to industry leading wages that 75% of them enjoyed for 2 years and the remaining 25% still enjoy today. AA could not guarantee the twaers a job for life just as they can't do it for nAAtives. All of Carty's promises could not change the fact that AA does not control the union seniority lists. AA thought the UA/US merger was going to happen and was to receive 86 planes from US along with other assets. The deal fell thru, the industry collapsed and ALL airlines slashed capacity; US at PIT, AA at STL, DL at DFW, and NW at MEM. Since the twa people were at STL and that hub was severely downsized, most of the twa people ended up on the street.
The former twaers I talked to were fleetservice and pilots. The fleetservice person I worked with left twa before the asset purchase because he "saw the writing on the wall" he had about 5 years there. I asked him if he thought his ex-twa brothers should have all their seniority at AA and he said "NO". The ex-twa pilot I talked to who came to AA with the deal was ex-ozark. He told me how he got screwed at twa and how he had to take a paycut and endure inferior work rules. On SJ, a twa pilots website, one of the twa pilots said that large numbers of twa pilots had applications in at other airlines (including AA) in order to "get out of this place" meaning twa. The point is that "the big happy family myth" that twaokc says existed at twa was just that, a myth.
I am not attacking the character of the twaers. I work with many in MIA and they are good people. I am responding to twaokc's claim that "he got screwed" when in fact AA is doing what it promised. Also, I am happy that your son was helped by your coworkers. We do the same here at AA when a coworker or one of their relatives are seriously injured.
Perhaps you mean a big dysfunctional family? I believed you guys when you painted the happy rosy picture at TWA. I have been flying with former TWA pilots lately and the picture they paint aint anywhere near your bucolic scene. The boys aren't speaking pretty things about you guys. After 1986 they wanted nothing to do with your group. So are we talking about the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's? Anyone who was flying at that time has surely retired or close to it by now. So when did this Utopian company exist?
Nor'Easta
Veteran
- Mar 8, 2006
- 510
- 1
For life? I am only speaking about the AA titled 9-11 layoffs. And yes, I do think that any employee furloughed BECAUSE of 9-11 should have the OPPORTUNITY to return. Not many will as evidenced by the low number of pilots returning. When a Co is willing to accept Federal Funds to offset losses and every other airline has recalled, even those in bk, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the "game plan".
TWA-OZ f/as-DOH
TWA-pilots DOH As I understand this issue, there were 30 year old OZ Capts. and TWA pilots (FOs) with 30 years seniority not yet been upgraded. The OZ Capts. were allowed to retain the Capt. bids for 3 years and then got cycled in DOH. It is well known that TWA was very senior.
I can't speak to ground, mechs, and non-contract, because I was on strike from 3-86 to 5-88.
Ah STL, funny how our customers were forced to fly through ORD or DFW. Prices for non stops out of STL were kept abnormally high and res is required to state lowest fare first. Our regulars on STL-LGW had to fight with res to get booked on our non stop. STL-ANC, May through Sep- 2 full 757s a day, 3 on the weekends, 1 Super80 with a stop in Portland, daily. Cargo alone made those flights profitable. Charters, charters, charters. AA could have kept TWA as strictly charter, (with an aggressive marketing dept) But then the focus group, reporting to the committee, reporting to the middle manager, reporting to the executive committee, reporting to the janitor, couldn't figure that out or by the time they did, it was too late.
FAs= dollar per hour raise, but the loss of work rules, 401K contributions and cost for benefits way offset the raise. 100% loss of wages and benefits is a healthy "hit" In our work force alone, the "shared contribution" to AA's executive bonus plan is topping $600,000,000 and that is a conservative estimate. Yet no credit given by management.
It would be interesting for the other work groups to figure out the "share" their furloughed have contributed towards AAs healthier bottom line.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 892
- Banned
- #27
I guess I was wrong, I just found this:
Linda Daschle's Lobbying Efforts Have Allowed American Airlines To Avoid Financial Responsibility For Possible Security Lapses On 9/11, At Taxpayers' Expense. "Even as its planes have crashed, American has lobbied for years to water down safety and security regulations that might have helped foil the World Trade Center attacks. Yet thanks in part to lobbying efforts by Daschle---and support from her husband---American Airlines got a free pass in the recent airline bailout bill, escaping most legal liability for the hijackings and getting $583 million in cash grants---taxpayer money it will never have to repay."
[Stephanie Mencimer, "Tom Daschle's Hillary Problem," Washington Monthly, January/February 2002]
Linda Daschle's Lobbying Efforts Have Allowed American Airlines To Avoid Financial Responsibility For Possible Security Lapses On 9/11, At Taxpayers' Expense. "Even as its planes have crashed, American has lobbied for years to water down safety and security regulations that might have helped foil the World Trade Center attacks. Yet thanks in part to lobbying efforts by Daschle---and support from her husband---American Airlines got a free pass in the recent airline bailout bill, escaping most legal liability for the hijackings and getting $583 million in cash grants---taxpayer money it will never have to repay."
[Stephanie Mencimer, "Tom Daschle's Hillary Problem," Washington Monthly, January/February 2002]
AA received a 'share" for TWA too. Bottom line, recalls = current f/as getting off reserve, less reassignments, and a few people happy to have the chance to finish out their careers with a little something to show for their efforts. Not so hard to understand.
