Free Dan

[Steve Connell]

Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve,

Quit lying to yourself!

Your denying that the TWU is attempting to pad the list to prevent an election?

Actually proAmfa I believe both the TWU and AMFA are doing what they should be doing, don't you? It would be to the TWU's best interest to get allowed the highest number of employees and it would be AMFA's part to get that number lowered to satisfy the 50% card count. I see no "illegal activities" of either. I do hope that the person who obtained the roster through AA for AMFA is covered, that would be the only discreption I have seen. I understand, and do not really condemn that person, I just hope the Company does what it should in thier response to that action.

It is a game, he who plays it best wins I would say. Until the NMB gives the decision, and if a vote is to be had, the game continues until the end. Then let's hope we all survive without to much injury.

 

[Radman]

The final number I believe stands at 18,708, give or take a few. After the "cleaning" of the lists it has been determined that that many folks derserve the right to vote if one is called for according to the rules of the NMB.

The pro AMFA people on this site get reamed when they make a prediction but I guess it is OK for you to do it? This had to be a prediction because there has been no determination of class and craft as of yet. I understand your confusion though. Knowing you are twu lets me know that you are used to just taking the companies word for it.

 

[Radman]

With people like you, Buck need not be careful about using "fighting words", we have already seen how much fight you and your kind are capable of. Buck is dangerously close to crossing a line that need not be crossed!! That's another fine opinion but don't confuse my "fight" to keep a union with my fight as an American and the time I put in fighting for YOUR right to freedom you ungreatful, beaten soul!!

I have spent my time in the service in support of FREEDOM. I am now fighting for my freedom to vote in a fair election. Freedoms are fought for on many fronts not just on the battlefield. As a vet you should already know this fact. If Buck was an ungrateful soul as you said, he would be in the pasture with all the other sheep here at AA. Instead he and others have stood up for the same people who ridicule us(yes that means you too).

 

[Steve Connell]

Fights for Freedom and fights for the right to vote are all recognized. Having the ability to know when the fight is going to cost you your employment, the same employment you are attempting to nurture and enrich, is vital. There are no "martyrs" in this union takeover attempt, simply people not possessing the above stated ability.

You believe in AMFA, I do not. There lies democracy, having that ability without recourse.

 

[Decision 2004]

Fights for Freedom and fights for the right to vote are all recognized. Having the ability to know when the fight is going to cost you your employment, the same employment you are attempting to nurture and enrich, is vital. There are no "martyrs" in this union takeover attempt, simply people not possessing the above stated ability.

You believe in AMFA, I do not. There lies democracy, having that ability without recourse.

Having the ability to recognize a fear based campaign of a union geared solely for survival is more important than anything.

You completely fail to recognize that AMFA will inherit the labor agreement, including the job security, and scope clause. Are you telling us this language is weak and AA would elminate your employment as a result of union change?

On one hand you claim TWU is the best, and then you claim your job would be in jeopardy under the TWU negotiated labor agreement, simply because we change our union leadership, Constitution, and Logo? Are you claiming that you know the TWU has to be in bed with the company or you would already be gone? Or do we have a labor agreement for protection?

Please explain this puzzle to us Steve. Maybe your wisdom is what we are lacking? But simply stating factless fear based lies is not going to change our minds.

Logically speaking, your rhetoric is baseless and not factual. So explain the not-logic thinking of your in terms we can all understand? Please remove your fear, and speak to us about facts.

Question, have you ever been mis-led by an industrial union or corporate fear campaign, only to find out later you were lied to and hoodwinked?

 

[Steve Connell]

Having the ability to recognize a fear based campaign of a union geared solely for survival is more important than anything.

You completely fail to recognize that AMFA will inherit the labor agreement, including the job security, and scope clause. Are you telling us this language is weak and AA would elminate your employment as a result of union change?

On one hand you claim TWU is the best, and then you claim your job would be in jeopardy under the TWU negotiated labor agreement, simply because we change our union leadership, Constitution, and Logo? Are you claiming that you know the TWU has to be in bed with the company or you would already be gone? Or do we have a labor agreement for protection?

Please explain this puzzle to us Steve. Maybe your wisdom is waht we are lacking?

Logically speaking, your rhetoric is baseless and not factual. So explain the not-logic thinking of your in terms we can all understand? Please remove your fear, and speak to us about facts.

Fear based campaign? Who is feared Dave and why? Geared for survival? The TWU is geared for it's members survival, in that you are correct.

When I stated " Having the ability to know when the fight is going to cost you your employment, the same employment you are attempting to nurture and enrich, is vital." I was referring to Dan, not to the spin you placed on my statement.

This may be difficult for you to grasp Dave, but I do not enjoy the thought of Dan losing his employment with AA over this AMFA drive issue. Nor do I wish to see any person terminated as we all have our responsibilities and families depending on us. I wish Dan the ability to retain his job, that is what I was attempting to express in my previous statement, not your rhetoric.

Though Dan and I have had our arguments, I still see him as an individual seeking what he feels is vital to him. Though I do not agree with his, and other's opinions, peace. We can joke and throw down verbally in here, but when it comes to having someone unemployed I believe both sides have gone to far.

 

[Decision 2004]

Well reast assured, that Dan currently has superior representation. He will likely be returned to work next week.

You do not even know the facts surrounding meetings he has been in lateley. And you probably do not even know what the reason given by AA was for his termination. First you guys claimed he wasnlt fired for AMFA activity, now you claim it was. Why do you guys always change the facts in your postings as we go along?

You, like most TWU members are completely in the dark about most facts regarding what is happening around us. Most OSM's have more experience with the TWU than you have.

 

[Steve Connell]

Well reast assured, that Dan currently has superior representation. He will likely be returned to work next week.

You do not even know the facts surrounding meetings he has been in lateley. And you probably do not even know what the reason given by AA was for his termination. First you guys claimed he wasnlt fired for AMFA activity, now you claim it was. Why do you guys always change the facts in your postings as we go along?

You, like most TWU members are completely in the dark about most facts regarding what is happening around us. Most OSM's have more experience with the TWU than you have.

Dave, regardless of who is representing Dan I wish him the best. You are correct in stating I do not know the facts, nor do I seek the facts Dave, that is Dan's business, not mine. Again I state I wish him the best, I'd miss that melon of his I kid him about.

I did not claim Dan was fired for any type of fact Dave, what are you eluding to? I heard "floor talk" about Dan, that is all. I do not place confidence in , or give much creedence to,"floor talk".

And you compare the TWU at MCIE with OSM's now? Dave, take time to research your desires, surely you'll come up with better reasons for me to go your "route" than what you have given so far.

 

[Decision 2004]

Dave, take time to research your desires, surely you'll come up with better reasons for me to go your "route" than what you have given so far.

This is NOT "my" route... This is "OUR" route

The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€￾

This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€￾

In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.

Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority ruleâ€￾ and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€￾, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.

Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.

AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS

 

[RUM@AA]

The final number I believe stands at 18,708, give or take a few. After the "cleaning" of the lists it has been determined that that many folks derserve the right to vote if one is called for according to the rules of the NMB. Steve makes a good point about the 50%. Amfa does not have 50% of 18,708. I think I said this a day or so ago, it is not the fault of the TWU that amfa went by numbers given in 2002 or that they didn't consider who all could be on the voter eligibility list. Like Dave said, you now know the number needed so next time you will play a better game!! Or maybe you just need some smarter players!!

So you have no problem with dead people being included? How about former TWA employees who have resigned or retired or were laid-off 10, 20, even 30 years ago? Should they vote too?
Did you support the NMB's inclusion of non-union planners and schedulers at UAL? They were just following the "rules" as you state. Never mind that the rules say they can change the rules on "case by case" basis. :down:
Is this the "freedom and liberty" you fought so proudly for? :huh:

The freedom of roge government agencies to dictate to the people? :down:

Just curious.

 

[amt for amfa]

Hey Steve if you think its a game to lie to the government . You better hope they don't ever review your taxes. :huh:

 

[Radman]

Fights for Freedom and fights for the right to vote are all recognized. Having the ability to know when the fight is going to cost you your employment, the same employment you are attempting to nurture and enrich, is vital. There are no "martyrs" in this union takeover attempt, simply people not possessing the above stated ability.

You believe in AMFA, I do not. There lies democracy, having that ability without recourse.

None of us want to be martyrs (none that I know). What bothers me most about the way the twu is handling everything (AMFA and other issues), is they use fear to drive people the way they want them. When you use fear you create a workforce of cowards not men who will stand behind you in a fight.

 

[Thrustfuljet]

I agree Radman and God forbid we should ever go on strike or have to fight the company for anything. With all the fear generated by the twu I doubt these people here in Tulsa will ever stand together and fight. The twu has divided the membership so much with SRP, OSM, A Scales & B Scales we will have a tuff time getting anything back. Jim Little pledges on one hand to bring the membership back to solidarity yet divides his ranks with the contract. I guess I just don't get it.

 

[Steve Connell]

None of us want to be martyrs (none that I know). What bothers me most about the way the twu is handling everything (AMFA and other issues), is they use fear to drive people the way they want them. When you use fear you create a workforce of cowards not men who will stand behind you in a fight.

How is it that the TWU creates fear? And fear of what? Is it more concessions you fear? Or is it the membership voting on those concessions that you fear? AMFA supporters complain of concessions since 1983, were these contracts not voted upon? Were not the '83 contracts brought to the membership with a "VOTE NO" request by the TWU, yet they passed by over 80%. Is it your brother's ability to vote the way they desire that puts the fear into you? Will AMFA control that fear?

Show me where AMFA has brought a decent contract to it's members yet. Alaskan Air? Surely you jest. Yet the members ratified it, was it the same fear that drove them to vote yes that you fear now?

AMFA promises the world, so far I have seen the likes of Dave Stewart as it's promoter, I should be the one in fear. AMFA will not have the ability to change a man or woman's vote, the fear you have now will be present with AMFA also, and I believe you know that now but you'd like to lay blame on the TWU.

 

[Rusty]

Steve, repeating nanananananana with your fingers in your ears and blinders on will not let you see or hear the truth.

We received an AMFA contract (almost) here at AA before the twu gave it away along with 40 years of work rule concessions and benefits. I will attach the graph with a line creating an "A" for the AMFA contract so that you can distinguish the difference.