Free Dan

[twuer]

Maybe you did serve, but if you were in charge we most certainly would be speaking German, Japanese, Russian or Chinese.

The fact is the TWU will not fight. Koziatek even told me so four years ago. He said "You will never see the TWU strike at AA".

Tell us TWUEr, what exactly would be a strike issue for you? What would the company have to do to get you to be willing to strike?

Just as you say Bucks opinion means nothing to you, your claim of veterans status means nothing to me, your behavior now is that of a coward.

Your claim that we gave all these concesions to save our less senior brothers is a lie. We gave these concessions to save the TWUs payoffs and to undercut the industry. We gave these concessions to put other airlines out of business. To give AA such a competative edge that no other airline could compete and as a result AA would expand and the TWU would get more low paid members. WE are the scabs of the industry thanks to people like you. Despite your claims, we still have people in the street. We left those wounded to die now didnt we? We are not "carrying" them are we? The fact is that ever since at least 1995 we have given AA the lowest maint labor costs of all the majors. After those airlines went through bankruptcy and brought their costs more in line with AA we went and undercut them again. We undercut them deeper than anyone else ever did, including Frank Lorenzo. As a result of the TWU even non-union workers find themselves in a position of losing benifits and wages.

Outsourcing? Why outsource when its cheaper to keep it in house? When you have an in=pocket union that would agree to a contract that has as little as one week of paid vacation, only five holidays at 4 hours extra pay if eight or ten hours are worked and has wage levels that are lower than the vendors? The fact is that AA had this even prior to the concessions, they were a bonus!

With people like you, Buck need not be careful about using "fighting words", we have already seen how much fight you and your kind are capable of.

Maybe you did serve, but if you were in charge we most certainly would be speaking German, Japanese, Russian or Chinese.
Did you serve Bob???

your claim of veterans status means nothing to me,
Like I care Bob. Your unsatiable love of amfa means nothing to me.

Your claim that we gave all these concesions to save our less senior brothers is a lie.
Did I say that????? Or are you making an assumption??????? But then again YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!!!!! AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN LIFE IS THE FAULT OF THE TWU RIGHT???!!!!! (you're starting to sound like some of your whiny amfa brothers Bob!!!)

With people like you, Buck need not be careful about using "fighting words", we have already seen how much fight you and your kind are capable of. Buck is dangerously close to crossing a line that need not be crossed!! That's another fine opinion but don't confuse my "fight" to keep a union with my fight as an American and the time I put in fighting for YOUR right to freedom you ungreatful, beaten soul!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Did you serve Bob???

No I did not.

Your claim that we gave all these concesions to save our less senior brothers is a lie.
Did I say that????? Or are you making an assumption???????


Making an asumption. Did you write this?

Bottom line Buck, if you cared anything about loyalty whether it be about your country or about your profession you wouldn't be willing to kick your brother to the curb to keep 50 cents in your freakin' pocket. "
If so then what did you mean by it?

But then again YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!!!!! AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN LIFE IS THE FAULT OF THE TWU RIGHT???!!!!!
Did I say that? Or are you making assumptions?

Buck is dangerously close to crossing a line that need not be crossed!! That's another fine opinion but don't confuse my "fight" to keep a union with my fight as an American and the time I put in fighting for YOUR right to freedom you ungreatful, beaten soul!!

You are the one who volunteered, or claimed, we cant be sure either way since we dont know who you are, information concerning your status as a veteran. Benidict Arnold was a veteran too. Should we be greatful to him?

 

[The Dissident]

I ask this. What use is senoirty if the union is willing to give up the protections that come with it to supposedly save a person with less senoirty. What use is senoirty if the union is willing to roll back the job protection clause so the company didnt have to pay me the 12500 dollars for forcing me out of my station and moving to another?

 

[Buck]

You show no respect for those veterans of the past, including those who were stationed with you or fought beside you.


Your opinion of me means nothing Buck. When you tell a war veteran that they have no respect for those who came before and for those they (I) fought beside, you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. amfa has been embedded in your brain to where you babble of crap you know nothing about. I would be careful Buck because those words are fighting words. Why don't you carry a sign around the base that says all those veterans who voted yes for the concessions have a yellow streak and don't respect other veterans including the ones they fought with and saw die????? I know the reason why you won't, is because you are a true coward in every sense of the word and would be liable to get a good a** whoopin. That one would be hard to explain!!!

Why don't you take your pumped up, right-winged, attitude and sit at your crew chiefs desk with your feet kicked up like normal and get off your high horse thinking you are better then the next guy. Bottom line Buck, if you cared anything about loyalty whether it be about your country or about your profession you wouldn't be willing to kick your brother to the curb to keep 50 cents in your freakin' pocket. If a solidier is wounded or lies in a field Buck, does it matter what job they do before the combat veteran will pick him up and carry him home??? Let me answer that for you Buck. . . . . . . .NO, it's all for one and one for all with you. That's your life style.

You tout your veteran status/use your veteran status as a tool/As a veteran myself, you make me sic

You're damn right I do. I am proud of my service to this country. . . . .8 years of it including combat. My wife, my children and my family and friends are proud of me as well. That's what matters. And tell me how I use my veteran status as a tool Buck??? Again your opinion means nothing because you are nothing. I know your kind well Buck. You are a pathetic excuse for a man who spends his life riding the coatails of everyone else. Now you have my opinion of you. Does it do anything for you? If you are any kind of man it won't. A veteran not having respect and consideration for another veteran. . . . now that's sickening!!!

Your post will make for some good conversation at the base. I thank you for letting us seeing the true side of an amfa believer!! As for those signs I mentioned. . . . . .you might want to keep an eye out for them. I can quote you can't I ??????



(just in case you want to delete your post I will keep it here for quick reference and for copy and paste!!)

I for one am growing tired of you spouting your veteran status. You show no respect for those veterans of the past, including those who were stationed with you or fought beside you. You tout your veteran status and then condone the unions removal of Memorial Day and the concessions veteran American Airlines TWU members of the past have fought for. You state that you fought and continue to fight? How can you fight when you believe that conceding to the company is the best approach. As a veteran myself, you make me sick. You use your veteran status as a tool to achieve nothing, except to prevent democracy. Let us hope that no one that has served with you in the service of your country, exposes a historic yellow streak that is prominent in your unionism.

Guess I made you mad?

It is my opinion and many others who find your use of your veteran status disrespectful, when you condone the disgraceful actions of the TWU.

Are you the one who came up with the flag and coffin also?

Why is there a need to threaten me?

What I have said must hold the truth or you would not have responded with your anger.

If you feel those are fighting words, then are you running for TWU Local 514 office? You would surely qualify.

Carry a sign? I only believe that of you. I do not respect your use of your service to your country as a tool on these boards to attempt to intimidate. You condone the give back of the holiday that pays tribute to those who have served and when someone calls you on it you lose control. In your response to me you are again touting your veteran status in an attempt to threaten or intimidate me. Is this the only tool you have?


There are many members of the TWU Local 514 that never served in the military, yet they have shown more concern for their profession than you have on this board.

If you feel that you need to threaten me and since you know where I work, do what you must.

That is just it, I do not think I am any better than the next guy. Especially the OSM, the Welder or the Machinist. It is the TWU who has placed the OSM in a lower classification that they created at the request of the company. I do not want to kick anyone to the street for 50 cents, I want to raise all of the wages of the mechanic craft and class. It is the TWU who has lowered the wages since 1983.
As for you posting what I say here, go ahead. I could care less. I could also care less what any of the TWU supporters think or do. They have continually lead the industry and the profession in concessions. I have grown tired of that. As for riding on someones coat tails, look in the mirror.

If you are proud of who you are and your veteran status, why not post your name?
At least then I would know who is going to give me an a** whooping.....

Now maybe you can answer a question:

Do you like the concessionary contracts?

 

[proAMFA]

I have absolutely no respect for a person that claims to be a combat veteran for our great country and its democratic principles yet would aid and abet the quashing of a democratic process in which the employees at American Airlines can participate in an election in order to either approve or disapprove the current representation. The last vote we had for representation was in the 1940's!

Pull you head out "combat vet" and fight for the cause of democracy instead of against it. Only then can I have respect for the person you claim to be.

 

[Steve Connell]

I have absolutely no respect for a person that claims to be a combat veteran for our great country and its democratic principles yet would aid and abet the quashing of a democratic process in which the employees at American Airlines can participate in an election in order to either approve or disapprove the current representation. The last vote we had for representation was in the 1940's!

Pull you head out "combat vet" and fight for the cause of democracy instead of against it. Only then can I have respect for the person you claim to be.

I have absolutely no respect for a person that claims to be a combat veteran for our great country and its democratic principles yet would aid and abet the quashing of a democratic process in which the employees at American Airlines can participate in an election in order to either approve or disapprove the current representation.

What part of democratic process do you not comprehend? I believe the need to satisfy the 50% card count is the democratic process, you see otherwise?

 

[proAMFA]

Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve,

Quit lying to yourself!

Your denying that the TWU is attempting to pad the list to prevent an election?

 

[twuer]

Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve,

Quit lying to yourself!

Your denying that the TWU is attempting to pad the list to prevent an election?

The final number I believe stands at 18,708, give or take a few. After the "cleaning" of the lists it has been determined that that many folks derserve the right to vote if one is called for according to the rules of the NMB. Steve makes a good point about the 50%. Amfa does not have 50% of 18,708. I think I said this a day or so ago, it is not the fault of the TWU that amfa went by numbers given in 2002 or that they didn't consider who all could be on the voter eligibility list. Like Dave said, you now know the number needed so next time you will play a better game!! Or maybe you just need some smarter players!!




Just a side note. . . . I guess it wasn't "padding" when Delle did it huh Profamfa?????

 

[Rusty]

What part of democratic process do you not comprehend? I believe the need to satisfy the 50% card count is the democratic process, you see otherwise?

Democratic process??? You have got to be kidding Steve, since when is the democratic process about getting 50% + 1 signitures to get a vote??? A Democratic process is voting and the majority vote wins. To keep raising the number with ineligible voters, to prevent a vote is immoral and is in fact a crime (FRAUD). Where the hell did you go to school anyway, the Kremlin's school of basic training???

 

[twuer]

I have absolutely no respect for a person that claims to be a combat veteran for our great country and its democratic principles yet would aid and abet the quashing of a democratic process in which the employees at American Airlines can participate in an election in order to either approve or disapprove the current representation. The last vote we had for representation was in the 1940's!

Pull you head out "combat vet" and fight for the cause of democracy instead of against it. Only then can I have respect for the person you claim to be.

I didn't ask for your respect Proamfa and could care less whether I get it from you.

Prove that I am "aiding and abetting" Proamfa. You just can't handle the truth that amfa is losing so you nit-pick this process of playing by the rules. If it is determined by the NMB that they disagree with who we have on our list then a vote will be called. Why are you so against playing by the rules?? If the NMB says we can have folks on the list then they will be put on the list. All of this is done by their rules. We have EVERY right to add the folks they say can be added. Amfa did it. Oh, but you forgot about that huh??? You have also forgotten about the fact that amfa used an illegally obtained employee list. If anyone has not been playing by the rules it has been amfa.

Amfa screwed up so you blame the TWU. Typical!!!! The blame falls anywhere but on the shoulders of amfa. Been there and done that. Like I have said before, we come to expect it from you!!

 

[proAMFA]

The blame game, huh?

How about the TWU blaming the co. for not sharing the sacrifice when the TWU negotiated (if you dare call it that) and sold it to the membership under duress. Besides that the membership was lied to and told it was either this or the Vermont plan. Then after jamming the contract down our throats, one year later whinning that their is no shared sacrifice. Who's fault is that? Why must we be forced to renegotiate items in the future that have already been negotiated in the past. Why no snap backs? Why give away items we have fought for years to get?

The TWU does not measure up.

You have no problem with people who service the lavatories being considered part of the mechanics class and craft? You have no problem with people who did not even fullfill their probationary period being considered part of the class and craft? You have no problem with people who quit TWA years ago and were NEVER a part of AA being considered part of the class and craft?

Your a socialist fool!

 

[twuer]

Guess I made you mad?

It is my opinion and many others who find your use of your veteran status disrespectful, when you condone the disgraceful actions of the TWU.

Are you the one who came up with the flag and coffin also?

Why is there a need to threaten me?

What I have said must hold the truth or you would not have responded with your anger.

If you feel those are fighting words, then are you running for TWU Local 514 office? You would surely qualify.

Carry a sign? I only believe that of you. I do not respect your use of your service to your country as a tool on these boards to attempt to intimidate. You condone the give back of the holiday that pays tribute to those who have served and when someone calls you on it you lose control. In your response to me you are again touting your veteran status in an attempt to threaten or intimidate me. Is this the only tool you have?


There are many members of the TWU Local 514 that never served in the military, yet they have shown more concern for their profession than you have on this board.

If you feel that you need to threaten me and since you know where I work, do what you must.

That is just it, I do not think I am any better than the next guy. Especially the OSM, the Welder or the Machinist. It is the TWU who has placed the OSM in a lower classification that they created at the request of the company. I do not want to kick anyone to the street for 50 cents, I want to raise all of the wages of the mechanic craft and class. It is the TWU who has lowered the wages since 1983.
As for you posting what I say here, go ahead. I could care less. I could also care less what any of the TWU supporters think or do. They have continually lead the industry and the profession in concessions. I have grown tired of that. As for riding on someones coat tails, look in the mirror.

If you are proud of who you are and your veteran status, why not post your name?
At least then I would know who is going to give me an a** whooping.....

Now maybe you can answer a question:

Do you like the concessionary contracts?

Guess I made you mad?
I find your comments, not so much towards me personally, because I could care less what you think about me, but for those who have also served beside me and whom you know nothing about personally, to be pathetic and amfa-like!! So, yes I did get a bit angered.

It is my opinion and many others. . .
That's funny because I have never had a problem with my belief system with anyone else before you and maybe one or two other pathetic amfa supporters on this board who cannot differentiate service to one's country and what union he belongs to.

Are you the one who came up with the flag and coffin also?
No. Are you the one who received and used confidential information from a company stooge?

Why is there a need to threaten me?
I didn't threaten you. All I said was those were fighting words and that someone might take them to heart a give you an a** whoopin. I'm not the fist-fighting type!!

What I have said must hold the truth or you would not have responded with your anger.
What you said had absolutley nothing to do with my service to this country and I took offense to your comments.

If you feel those are fighting words, then are you running for TWU Local 514 office? You would surely qualify.
No, not running for any office.

I do not respect your use of your service to your country as a tool on these boards to attempt to intimidate.
Please Buck, show me where I have intimidated anyone with the comments I make about my service. Please!!! You claim to be a veteran, aren't you proud??? Apparantly not the way you bash other who have served.

You condone the give back of the holiday that pays tribute to those who have served and when someone calls you on it you lose control.
I didn't condone anything Buck. Again, please show me specifically where I condone giving away Memorial Day. And don't say because I voted yes for the concessions. That's a whole different issue and you know it. And lose control????? I thought I handled your blatant disrespect fairly well!

In your response to me you are again touting your veteran status in an attempt to threaten or intimidate me. Is this the only tool you have?
And again, show me specific threats and intimidation Buck. I believe you commented on my comments making you sick or something so I was defending myself. Do I not have that right Buck?????

There are many members of the TWU Local 514 that never served in the military, yet they have shown more concern for their profession than you have on this board.
Good for them!!! If I had no concern for the profession then I wouldn't be fighting you (amfa) the way I do. By concern you mean choosing amfa over the TWU? I guess we would have a difference of opinion of what "concern" means then now wouldn't we!!!! To each his own Buck!!

If you feel that you need to threaten me and since you know where I work, do what you must.
And yet again, I did not threaten you, just warning you that your comments might strike a nerve with someone else.

That is just it, I do not think I am any better than the next guy.
By your own admission of supporting amfa you have proven this!

If you are proud of who you are and your veteran status, why not post your name?
Irrelevant.


Now maybe you can answer a question:
I think I answered quite a few Buck.

Do you like the concessionary contracts?
Nope, and don't think I know of anyone who does.

 

[scorpion]

What part of democratic process do you not comprehend? I believe the need to satisfy the 50% card count is the democratic process, you see otherwise?

I see alot people who didn't have a clue they were part of the craft and class and by not being on the list they were denied the democratic process. Not that they are part of the mechanic and related but if by some mistake they were omitted from the list shouldn't they be givin the oportunity to sign a card or vote?

twuer says
You have also forgotten about the fact that amfa used an illegally obtained employee list. If anyone has not been playing by the rules it has been amfa.

Now if this list isn't factual then why do you give a rats ass how it was obtained! You guys keep saying we don't have enough cards but by this list we do. Your playing two arguments at once and they contradict each other. Either the list is accurate and was obtained under questionable circumstances or its a worthless peice of paper and who cares where it came from.

 

[RUM@AA]

If you knew me you would know that these things you say are not true so I will chalk them up to pure ignorance. Are you a veteran Rum???? Well I am. I have more respect for rights and privileges in my little finger than most of the people in this country. I FOUGHT FOR THEM!!! And continue to fight. You have every right to support who you choose. You want to support amfa, I have no problem with what you choose to do. I have never said that and never will. What I have a problem with is you thinking that you are better than anyone else. That attitude is blatantly obvious. Your hypocritical attitude as well is sickening. We all have our "choices" as to whom and what we think is best for us but don't attack my principles as an American just to make yourself feel better. It makes you look like a fool. Many times I have had to defend my patriotism on these boards when my patriotism has NOTHING to do with my choice of unions. I am happier with the TWU, period. You are not, period. You are happier with amfa, period. I am not, period. I choose and defend the TWU, you choose and defend amfa. PERIOD!!!!

I bet you are one of these people who NEVER agrees to disagree.

I take your attacking comments with a grain of salt Rum. Like amfa, you have accomplished nothing!

I'm not questioning your patriotism, just your idea of what America stands for.
I believe freedom loving Americans should have the right to support the political candidate of their choice. Don't you? Of course you do.
I believe that we freedom loving Americans should never be forced to monitarily support political candidates we disagree with and/or would never vote for. Don't you?
Then why do you support an organization that penalizes members for choosing to not support John Kerry? Or Hillary Clinton, or Ted Kennedy? You do, you know.

Check out who recieves funding from the AFL-CIO and the TWU in the form of "soft money". 90% Left Wing Marxists, with a couple liberal Republicans from New England for "diversity". And that comes right out of our dues, not COPE.

My family members, Father and Uncle fought in WWII. My Uncle is burried in France where he gave his life for our freedom. I posess his Bronze Star to this day.
Not so you or Sonny Hall could deny me membership if I don't support some Marxist of your choosing.
I may be slightly ignorant, but you're extremely confused if you think America is about political coersion.
I would suggest that you have NO RESPECT for political freedom if you support the TWU or any AFL-CIO affilliate.

However, the AMFA vs. TWU debate is not about national politics, its about representation.
Therefore I will end this discussion right here.

 

[Buck]

Guess I made you mad?
I find your comments, not so much towards me personally, because I could care less what you think about me, but for those who have also served beside me and whom you know nothing about personally, to be pathetic and amfa-like!! So, yes I did get a bit angered.

It is my opinion and many others. . .
That's funny because I have never had a problem with my belief system with anyone else before you and maybe one or two other pathetic amfa supporters on this board who cannot differentiate service to one's country and what union he belongs to.

Are you the one who came up with the flag and coffin also?
No. Are you the one who received and used confidential information from a company stooge?

Why is there a need to threaten me?
I didn't threaten you. All I said was those were fighting words and that someone might take them to heart a give you an a** whoopin. I'm not the fist-fighting type!!

What I have said must hold the truth or you would not have responded with your anger.
What you said had absolutley nothing to do with my service to this country and I took offense to your comments.

If you feel those are fighting words, then are you running for TWU Local 514 office? You would surely qualify.
No, not running for any office.

I do not respect your use of your service to your country as a tool on these boards to attempt to intimidate.
Please Buck, show me where I have intimidated anyone with the comments I make about my service. Please!!! You claim to be a veteran, aren't you proud??? Apparantly not the way you bash other who have served.

You condone the give back of the holiday that pays tribute to those who have served and when someone calls you on it you lose control.
I didn't condone anything Buck. Again, please show me specifically where I condone giving away Memorial Day. And don't say because I voted yes for the concessions. That's a whole different issue and you know it. And lose control????? I thought I handled your blatant disrespect fairly well!

In your response to me you are again touting your veteran status in an attempt to threaten or intimidate me. Is this the only tool you have?
And again, show me specific threats and intimidation Buck. I believe you commented on my comments making you sick or something so I was defending myself. Do I not have that right Buck?????

There are many members of the TWU Local 514 that never served in the military, yet they have shown more concern for their profession than you have on this board.
Good for them!!! If I had no concern for the profession then I wouldn't be fighting you (amfa) the way I do. By concern you mean choosing amfa over the TWU? I guess we would have a difference of opinion of what "concern" means then now wouldn't we!!!! To each his own Buck!!

If you feel that you need to threaten me and since you know where I work, do what you must.
And yet again, I did not threaten you, just warning you that your comments might strike a nerve with someone else.

That is just it, I do not think I am any better than the next guy.
By your own admission of supporting amfa you have proven this!

If you are proud of who you are and your veteran status, why not post your name?
Irrelevant.


Now maybe you can answer a question:
I think I answered quite a few Buck.

Do you like the concessionary contracts?
Nope, and don't think I know of anyone who does.

Nice back tracking.............

and of course you do not have the fortitude to post your name - chicken?