Flight Attendant Picketing to begin next week

[Garfield1966]

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement. The reason I made the statement was that one of the reasons stated why people call in sick during the holidays was that they wanted to be with their families during the holidays or because "they had family obligations". My point being is that generally, a job such as being a FA or some other vocation that requires one to be away (at least when starting out) is not conducive to a family life. Yes some do make it work and that is fine. I can not keep track of the number of removal slips we get due to day care issues and the like.

I have no beef with those who come into work when they are supposed to. Contrary to popular belief, I do not look down on FA's. It's a job like any other. No better no worse. I just get tired of the few who think they deserve to have the holidays off when they cannot hold it. Or think they deserve overtime, premium pay or what ever just to show up when their schedule dictates.

While I do not advocate a return to the days of 101lbs, single …etc. There does seem to have been a 'sound' reason behind it. Someone who does not have 'family' obligations is less likely to be hindered from performing their assigned duties by those obligations.

AA is free to do as they see fit with this job. This is not where I plan on staying, never has. I am here now because I enjoy the job and it is convienient for the moment. I have no intention on being in crew skd 3 or 4 years from now. It is a stopinp point along the path. What's your exucuse CurveTalker? BTW, if you would read your contract you would see that part of the requirement of a crew skd is that they be a member of management. They are the only ones allowed to give directives to a FA. Were it not for that stipulation, this would be a agent job not a management position. Not sure how that could be out sourced but again, that's a concern for me.

 

[nbmcg01]

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement. The reason I made the statement was that one of the reasons stated why people call in sick during the holidays was that they wanted to be with their families during the holidays or because "they had family obligations". My point being is that generally, a job such as being a FA or some other vocation that requires one to be away (at least when starting out) is not conducive to a family life. Yes some do make it work and that is fine. I can not keep track of the number of removal slips we get due to day care issues and the like.

I have no beef with those who come into work when they are supposed to. Contrary to popular belief, I do not look down on FA's. It's a job like any other. No better no worse. I just get tired of the few who think they deserve to have the holidays off when they cannot hold it. Or think they deserve overtime, premium pay or what ever just to show up when their schedule dictates.

While I do not advocate a return to the days of 101lbs, single …etc. There does seem to have been a 'sound' reason behind it. Someone who does not have 'family' obligations is less likely to be hindered from performing their assigned duties by those obligations.

AA is free to do as they see fit with this job. This is not where I plan on staying, never has. I am here now because I enjoy the job and it is convenient for the moment. I have no intention on being in crew skd 3 or 4 years from now. It is a stopinp point along the path. What's your exucuse CurveTalker? BTW, if you would read your contract you would see that part of the requirement of a crew skd is that they be a member of management. They are the only ones allowed to give directives to a FA. Were it not for that stipulation, this would be a agent job not a management position. Not sure how that could be out sourced but again, that's a concern for me.

Garfield, once again you're showing your bias. F/as are not the only workers with a seniority based bidding system. Nurses have to work holidays, so do residential care providers, police officers, and fire-persons. Are you implying that no-one with a family should be allowed to work in a job that might require them to work over a holiday. While I agree that some abuse the system and call off because of a sense of "entitlement", planning sometimes doesn't help the situation. It doesn't take that much longer to try and keep people on turns, on turns. Those flying longer pairings usually are willing and ready to make up time (immediately) when time is lost. You may not think it is necessary or should even be considered but in 2007 a computer is a wonderful tool. AA trading system is also archaic (I know its contract) and should have been a quality of life trade off for the illegal RPA concessions. The time formula is crazy and doesn't benefit anyone. Nor does restricting the number of trades. Green, red, purple, yellow, within very rare circumstances, trades should be free and open. All available flights should be listed for the month by base so that schedules can be tailored to meet all obligations. There is no reason to hold back that information.

And, Garfield, pilots have family obligations too. perhaps the rules you suggest are appropriate should apply to them too. And I know a scheduler would NEVER be sick over a holiday.

 

[Garfield1966]

The difference being that a law enforcement, nurse, and who ever are usually back at home in 12 hours (give or take) regardless of their seniority.

As for schedulers being sick over the holiday. I am sure there have been (I have never beenon that list) but I can assure you if I called in sick for 5 holidays in a row (I know several FA's who have) I would not be employed with AA.

I never suggested any rules. What I suggested is that people who work operational jobs based on bidding seniority (my self included) should show up when scheduled and not expect a shoulder to cry on when they miss a child baseball game or birthday or what ever. I don't care if it's a FA, Pilot or any one else. I have been in operational jobs for nearly 20 years. This will be the first time I am actually off on the 25th and that's only because I happen to have that day off (it would take 35 years to hold it on VC) on my bid. I have been at my desk every holiday prior taking calls and doing my job. My family celebrates the holiday when my schedule allows. When did I ever say that we should be held to a different standard?

I never said someone should not be 'allowed' to do any thing. What I am saying is that if someone works operational jobs, saying 'oh gee I can't because I don't have day care' or what ever lame excuse you want to use is not an option. If someone cannot do it, there are a lot of other jobs with AA that could accommodate them, or there is always the door.

And just so we are clear on the 'some people abuse the system' thing. Every christmas and new year over 1,000 FA's alone abuse the system and force whose who do come into work to work flights short staffed and to get reassigned. Just so we are clear.

Like I said, not sure why or how it turned into a career. There were a few up here who had been here for 30 years. No idea why anyone would want to spend that much time here but if that the extent of their goals so be it. If some are happy flying, great. They found their niche.

 

[nbmcg01]

The difference being that a law enforcement, nurse, and who ever are usually back at home in 12 hours (give or take) regardless of their seniority.

As for schedulers being sick over the holiday. I am sure there have been (I have never beenon that list) but I can assure you if I called in sick for 5 holidays in a row (I know several FA's who have) I would not be employed with AA.

I never suggested any rules. What I suggested is that people who work operational jobs based on bidding seniority (my self included) should show up when scheduled and not expect a shoulder to cry on when they miss a child baseball game or birthday or what ever. I don't care if it's a FA, Pilot or any one else. I have been in operational jobs for nearly 20 years. This will be the first time I am actually off on the 25th and that's only because I happen to have that day off (it would take 35 years to hold it on VC) on my bid. I have been at my desk every holiday prior taking calls and doing my job. My family celebrates the holiday when my schedule allows. When did I ever say that we should be held to a different standard?

I never said someone should not be 'allowed' to do any thing. What I am saying is that if someone works operational jobs, saying 'oh gee I can't because I don't have day care' or what ever lame excuse you want to use is not an option. If someone cannot do it, there are a lot of other jobs with AA that could accommodate them, or there is always the door.

And just so we are clear on the 'some people abuse the system' thing. Every christmas and new year over 1,000 FA's alone abuse the system and force whose who do come into work to work flights short staffed and to get reassigned. Just so we are clear.

Like I said, not sure why or how it turned into a career. There were a few up here who had been here for 30 years. No idea why anyone would want to spend that much time here but if that the extent of their goals so be it. If some are happy flying, great. They found their niche.

Garfield, in the "real" world, people get sick, have babysitting problems, and now are facing caring for elderly parents. There are even lame excuses, sick pets, and Drs appointments that cannot be rescheduled. This is not 1950 and the June Cleaver lifestyle is unfortunately a thing of the past. You seem to think these issues only occur in the airlines (and with f/as). With the contract concessions implemented, most families need 2 incomes. One to pay the mortgage and one to pay for health insurance. Why shouldn't flying have become a career? On the whole it is a lot more flexible than 9 to 5. It is strange at this point in my life to actually celebrate a holiday on the actual day.

I work for a company that respects and advocates for their employees. (yes I'm in mangt.) and daily I see this come back to the company tenfold. Loyalty is a priceless commodity. AA should try it sometime. Unfortunately, at this point and time a good portion of the employees (at AA) feel unappreciated, and undervalued. Valid or not, that is fact. And yes, at my company people get sick, have daycare closings, have personal problems requiring time off, and sometimes others have to help out to get projects finished on time. Team work is an amazing concept. To make it more interesting it is chartered that over 50% of the employees must have a disability.

In my parent's day, a stay at home wife was rewarded with a retirement package at many larger organizations in 'honor' of their commitment to home and family which allowed the "man" to do his work without family worries. I know because my father was General Counsel for the Norfolk and Western Railroad and my mother was given this benefit. In your wildest imagination, can you fathom this happening today?

Better utilization, less unproductive "sitting", more line flexibility will cut your staffing issues in half. Too bad AA wants to put a hefty price tag on no cost or cost neutral quality of life contract provisions. Games!

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I have no beef with those who come into work when they are supposed to. Contrary to popular belief, I do not look down on FA's. It's a job like any other. No better no worse. I just get tired of the few who think they deserve to have the holidays off when they cannot hold it. Or think they deserve overtime, premium pay or what ever just to show up when their schedule dictates.

While I do not advocate a return to the days of 101lbs, single …etc. There does seem to have been a 'sound' reason behind it. Someone who does not have 'family' obligations is less likely to be hindered from performing their assigned duties by those obligations.

AA is free to do as they see fit with this job. This is not where I plan on staying, never has. I am here now because I enjoy the job and it is convienient for the moment. I have no intention on being in crew skd 3 or 4 years from now. It is a stopinp point along the path. What's your exucuse CurveTalker? BTW, if you would read your contract you would see that part of the requirement of a crew skd is that they be a member of management. They are the only ones allowed to give directives to a FA. Were it not for that stipulation, this would be a agent job not a management position. Not sure how that could be out sourced but again, that's a concern for me.

First off, you most certainly do look down on the very people whose existence justifies and supports your paycheck. Personally, I love my job (still); enjoy my coworkers; and even manage to have fun with many of the passengers. If I did not, I would leave. The fact that you remain, working with (for) a group of people you despise so intensely, indicates to me that either your opportunities in the "real world" are limited due to, for example, lack of education, poor intellectual capacity to learn new tasks, or the inability to work well with others; or you are such a loser that you enjoy wallowing in your own misery. Quite frankly, I think you stick around for both reasons.

Directives can be issued by ANY member of management, NOT just a Crew Scheduler. Maybe if you spent more time learning about other parts of the company, and how they operate, rather than using company time to post on this board, as you admit to doing, you would not make such ridiculously inaccurate statements. Personally, I have never seen, or heard, of a Crew Scheduler issuing a "directive," in the strictest sense of the word. I also have never seen, or heard, of a termination occurring solely, and directly, as a result of a flight attendant failing, or refusing, to comply with a directive.

A directive, by the way, just so you know, must have several components and must be delivered correctly for it to be able to sustain a termination for failure to comply.

HR is a management function, and while they are initially outsourcing transactional functions, it won't be long before the company starts looking at the strategic functions of HR, which is where you will start seeing outsourced management.

Don't think it won't happen. Maybe they will start with Crew Schedule clerks such as yourself as an experiment.

 

[jimntx]

I work for a company that respects and advocates for their employees. (yes I'm in mangt.) and daily I see this come back to the company tenfold. Loyalty is a priceless commodity. AA should try it sometime. Unfortunately, at this point and time a good portion of the employees (at AA) feel unappreciated, and undervalued. Valid or not, that is fact. And yes, at my company people get sick, have daycare closings, have personal problems requiring time off, and sometimes others have to help out to get projects finished on time. Team work is an amazing concept. To make it more interesting it is chartered that over 50% of the employees must have a disability.

This won't happen any time soon at AMR. On March 16th my house in Houston was burned down by a 17-year old neighbor and his 12-year old brother who were bored during Spring Break. I was given POs (personal off) for the last two days of reserve before my vacation started. POs at AA are chargeable attendance occurrences.

Collect enough chargeable occurrences as a flight attendant and your job is toast. The fact that the house is one you have owned for half your life and is where your wife died is of no consequence to AMR. If it's not FMLA, it's a chargeable occurrence which is the sin against the holy ghost to them.

 

[nbmcg01]

This won't happen any time soon at AMR. On March 16th my house in Houston was burned down by a 17-year old neighbor and his 12-year old brother who were bored during Spring Break. I was given POs (personal off) for the last two days of reserve before my vacation started. POs at AA are chargeable attendance occurrences.

Collect enough chargeable occurrences as a flight attendant and your job is toast. The fact that the house is one you have owned for half your life and is where your wife died is of no consequence to AMR. If it's not FMLA, it's a chargeable occurrence which is the sin against the holy ghost to them.

How I remember Jim. We used to be able to call in and if the reserves were not flying,we could request a non paid personal day off. It was a win-win because the Co had to pay reserves their guarantee and we were able to accomplish last minute appointments, meetings at schools, or "whatever" without an attendance occurrence. You certainly would have been given awd (discretionary time off) and probably paid time off (for your loss). When AA "merged" our f/as into their system, we were given chargable POs for our AWDs which put a good portion of our flight attendants in the attendance program. Only at AA could you be held accountible for "rules" that were not a part of your former workplace. In some ways it is hard to believe that it has only been 6 years.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Got this yesterday so mind your p's and Q's

If they dont want the disruptions maybe they should forego the bonuses








AA's Labor relations is losing its luster.
*************************
American sends unions warning letter
Members say no disruptions planned over execs' bonuses

By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News
tmaxon@dallasnews .com American Airlines Inc. is sending letters to its
unions warning them that their members cannot participate in illegal
activities as they protest executive stock bonuses over the next week.

"We are delivering letters to our union," American spokeswoman Sue
Gordon confirmed Tuesday. "The purpose is to remind them of their legal
obligation under the Railway Labor Act."

The letters are telling the unions that the employees cannot disrupt
the airline's operations or otherwise violate the federal law that
governs relations between an airline and its employees.

Asked if the airline has seen or expects any illegal activities, Ms.
Gordon said it "would be difficult for us to speculate on that point.
What's important for us to do right now is to make sure that we go on
record reminding our unions of their responsibilities under the law,
and we thought that would be the appropriate and prudent route to take."

The maj or unions representing American's employees are sponsoring or
participating in events to protest American's plans to issue stock to
an estimated 874 top executives and managers.

The bonus plan, which is based on the performance of AMR Corp.'s stock
compared with that of major competitors, will award stock valued at
about $170 million to $180 million, based on current stock prices.

The Allied Pilots Association plans a protest rally and march next
Wednesday, the day that the airline will issue the stock. The Transport
Workers Union, which represents mechanics, ground workers and others,
has been invited to participate.

The Association of Professional Flight Attendants plans events,
including picketing, on Friday and Tuesday.

APFA president Tommie Hutto-Blake said Tuesday that American officials
"not only warned me, but they demanded that I direct our membership. I
said, are you nuts? That is your job, No. 1. I'm not going to direct my
membership. I'm saying it week after week on our hotline. They're
starting to play hardball."

Ms. Hutto-Blake said her union is "totally opposed" to any illegal job
actions. "First, we don't want to put our members at risk. Second of
all, we don't want to weaken our union."

American pilot Denny Breslin, a spokesman for the pilots' union, said
any illegal work actions "wouldn't serve our interests at all. You
won't find anything from us other than just simply encouraging our
folks to go to work."

A federal judge in 1999 ordered the pilots' union to pay American
$45.5 million in damages, ruling that the union had failed to stop an
illegal sickout by pilots.

American forgave the last $26 million in exchange for concessions
worth $660 million annually from pilots.

"After the sickout, it's pretty clear that if you stick your neck out,
somebody's going to cut it off," Mr. Breslin s aid. "It's unlikely
you'll hear anyone boasting that they're going to do anything."

John M. Conley, the TWU system coordinator at American, said the union
"will remind our members of the law."

"Obviously, we're going to support the provisions of the Railway Labor
Act," he said.

"We're not real sure what the company is talking about in the letter.
... It appears they have an impression of some kind of untoward action"
by union members, he said.

 

[eolesen]

Seems to me that as long as the unions aren't taking a stance on the "grassroots" efforts, the letter isn't going to much good. Unions can't held accountable for what their members do on their own. If there is a "labor action" event in the next couple weeks, AMR's going to be in a tough spot if it's happening across workgroups. They can't just go get a restraining order against one union; they need to go get one against all three, and that's going to create far more of a media frenzy than they're willing to take on.

 

[FWAAA]

This won't happen any time soon at AMR. On March 16th my house in Houston was burned down by a 17-year old neighbor and his 12-year old brother who were bored during Spring Break. I was given POs (personal off) for the last two days of reserve before my vacation started. POs at AA are chargeable attendance occurrences.

Collect enough chargeable occurrences as a flight attendant and your job is toast. The fact that the house is one you have owned for half your life and is where your wife died is of no consequence to AMR. If it's not FMLA, it's a chargeable occurrence which is the sin against the holy ghost to them.

I'm sorry to hear about that.

There's something wrong with the whole attendance system when people too junior to hold holidays suddenly, magically, become ill just in time for Christmas, Easter or July 4 but someone who suffers a personal loss/issue/tragedy can't get an excused absence to deal with that loss without personnel consequences. Those who tell the truth shouldn't face consequences not faced by the fibbers.

 

[eolesen]

This won't happen any time soon at AMR. On March 16th my house in Houston was burned down by a 17-year old neighbor and his 12-year old brother who were bored during Spring Break. I was given POs (personal off) for the last two days of reserve before my vacation started. POs at AA are chargeable attendance occurrences.

Collect enough chargeable occurrences as a flight attendant and your job is toast. The fact that the house is one you have owned for half your life and is where your wife died is of no consequence to AMR. If it's not FMLA, it's a chargeable occurrence which is the sin against the holy ghost to them.

Jim, truly sorry to hear about your loss, especially under such senseless circumstances.

As for PO's, I remember being charged with them when my wife miscarried many years back, and was told it didn't qualify as death of a family member. How's that for compassion and understanding?... A visit to HR got that changed. I was at the other extreme, and gave out a PE when one of my employee's dog died, which was never questioned by anyone.

Perhaps you might want to consider grieving it on the ground that MIA, MSY, etc. didn't do this for people who had to deal with hurricane damage two years ago. Oh, that's right. You're a white male. Sorry...

 

[AirLUVer]

If enough negative press comes out in the next few days, maybe the stock price would dip. With every dollar dip in share price, several million dollars is removed from the Senior Management PUP.

 

[eolesen]

Money is only removed from the Privileged Thousand's pockets if they cash out their stock immediately. I don't believe the amount of shares being distributed changes, so considering most of the Privileged Thousand don't need the money to begin with, they'll just hold off on turning the options into cash until after everyone forgets about this, and the stock price goes back up.

The only thing that AMR seems to notice lately is losing money.

Back in 1998, AMR claimed that the operational losses from the Reno sickout were between $200 million to $225 million. That was almost twice the $124M AMR paid for Reno in the first place.

If the APA's sickout cost $200M in 1998, it's possible that a sickout today would easily cost more than the amount of the bonus payouts, and that is what probably has AMR's attention right now.

 

[AirLUVer]

Money is only removed from the Privileged Thousand's pockets if they cash out their stock immediately. I don't believe the amount of shares being distributed changes, so considering most of the Privileged Thousand don't need the money to begin with, they'll just hold off on turning the options into cash until after everyone forgets about this, and the stock price goes back up.

The only thing that AMR seems to notice lately is losing money.

Back in 1998, AMR claimed that the operational losses from the Reno sickout were between $200 million to $225 million. That was almost twice the $124M AMR paid for Reno in the first place.

If the APA's sickout cost $200M in 1998, it's possible that a sickout today would easily cost more than the amount of the bonus payouts, and that is what probably has AMR's attention right now.

Probably misunderstanding the methodology of the payout, but I thought that the share price also determined the "value" of the shares issued. Since initially this was a cash payout, the payout is based on a monetary figure not a flat number of shares.

 

[eolesen]

You might be right. Since I never belonged to the plan, I haven't really dived into the payout calculation itself; I've only looked at the triggering events.