Fleet Service Arbitration or IAM concession

[700UW]

Dio,

Let me correct you one some stuff.

Step I-handled by shop steward.
Step II-handled by Grievance Committee
Step III-handled by the AGC/GC

Only PIT and CLT can be full time off the clock for M&R, small stations have to submit for time off, they dont work full time off the clock.

CLT had the same problem with Fleet and they had to get Canale involved and he straightened it out. And you can always file charges with the NMB if they refuse you to let you service the CBA and if the IAM fails you file a DFR against them, it has been done before.

Also when we were just East, in CLT they had no problems getting PS to service CAE and MYR.

They wont give up the change of control and the FM Grievances were voted away in Bankruptcy #1 and Concession #1, and every union in the industry lost their FM Grievances in Arbitration.

 

[barbeetantrums]

what has made the westies think they are entitled to the profit sharing? I ask this question because at least it appears to me that someone presumably from the IAM has told the westies that they will include them in the profit sharing chunk of the east siders. And can someone from the IAM finally end this issue by penning a letter to make things clear for the westies that their TWU sellout 'piss clam' contract does not entitle them to blood suck off one of the only positive provisions of the east sider contract.

Since the IAM has been silent 'on paper' in this matter I get the creeps that perhaps there might be a semblance of truth that the westies might be allowed to pimp off some of the east siders profit sharing.

regards,

There was a letter on the union message board in PHX stating that West fleet service would be included in profit sharing. That was agreed upon in the first days of negotiations for the transition agreement.

As an aside, I believe West fs should not get the profit sharing as it was not included in the TWU agreement but I won't go turning it in once I get it, either. I need the money desperately to buy a new butt. My old one has a crack in it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You could not be more far off, the IAM has stated so far the West is NOT entilted to the profit sharing and there has been numerous threads where the Westies have shown their greed by wanting money from the East's Profit Sharing, the IAM is the only union on the property not sharing it.

Here are some threads for interesting reading:

Fleet Service Profit Sharing

IAM Refuses Bonus for West

Another one about M&R

Read those threads Tim and you will see the gaul and greediness of the West Employees.

700, unless I'm reading the wrong links, the links you provided were just usaviation.com coffee shop talks. The only thing I can come up with that the IAM said about westie profit sharing is the following:
The Company was advised in our discussions it was our intent to include our West IAM membership in the current profit sharing plan but that our distribution / qualifying formula was not as yet completed for our West membership.

So it does in fact appear that 141 has explicitly negotiated that the westies be included and probably has expressed this to the westies in person at LAS or PHX.
Any chance at distribution to the westies would most assuredly have to come from the east siders profit pool, otherwise I do not see your company annexing more profit sharing for those who are not originally entitled to it. If that's the case then the discussions between the IAm and your company as expressed in the above quote is no more than hot air from the IAm to make it appear they are fighting like hell for the westies.

As a side, after reviewing your response to diogenes, it appears you may be hedging that the IAM will in fact give up the change of control grievance by making it a negotiated item, packaged in the final transition agreement for fleet to vote up or down. But make no mistake, the IAM will negotiate this away in the final transition agreement and NOT dissuade fleet service against it. That's what will happen, no doubt about it.

They did the same thing with the 1113 letters and 'no more concessions stuff. I even herad one IAM loyalist say that the IAM stood by their remarks but it was the membership that decided more concessions were necessary.

regards,

 

[barbeetantrums]

The Company was advised in our discussions it was our intent to include our West IAM membership in the current profit sharing plan but that our distribution / qualifying formula was not as yet completed for our West membership.

So it does in fact appear that 141 has explicitly negotiated that the westies be included and probably has expressed this to the westies in person at LAS or PHX.


regards,

Gonna get me some bling-bling, Homey!!! Gonna be representin'!

 

[700UW]

I just spoke with a member of a Fleet Committee and he said as of now there are profit sharing is up in the air.

The links I provided was just to give you the mentality of the West and East Employees.

You missed the part where Hemenway said the IAM was not going to share the money and the company had nothing to do with it. Someone e-mailed him and that was the response.

Well the IAM wont give up the change of control, they are moving forward and spending money and resources for the arbitration next month.

And I guess you forget Bronner telling the world he will liquidate if he does not get more concessions, and 1113 are worthless when the Judge is in the company's pocket, I sat in the courtroom and witnessed it first hand.

One thing you have to remember and you would rather blame the IAM is that when a company files Chapter 11, the Judge's responsiblity and the law ensures he takes care of the Creditors, ensures the company has a viable POR and the employees are of no concern to anyone.

Every union in the industry has taken massive concessions in and out of court, has to tell you something, even everyone's beloved AMFA got hosed at UAL and gotten beaten badly at NWA.

 

[IAM1776PHL]

700, unless I'm reading the wrong links, the links you provided were just usaviation.com coffee shop talks. The only thing I can come up with that the IAM said about westie profit sharing is the following:
The Company was advised in our discussions it was our intent to include our West IAM membership in the current profit sharing plan but that our distribution / qualifying formula was not as yet completed for our West membership.

So it does in fact appear that 141 has explicitly negotiated that the westies be included and probably has expressed this to the westies in person at LAS or PHX.
Any chance at distribution to the westies would most assuredly have to come from the east siders profit pool, otherwise I do not see your company annexing more profit sharing for those who are not originally entitled to it. If that's the case then the discussions between the IAm and your company as expressed in the above quote is no more than hot air from the IAm to make it appear they are fighting like hell for the westies.

As a side, after reviewing your response to diogenes, it appears you may be hedging that the IAM will in fact give up the change of control grievance by making it a negotiated item, packaged in the final transition agreement for fleet to vote up or down. But make no mistake, the IAM will negotiate this away in the final transition agreement and NOT dissuade fleet service against it. That's what will happen, no doubt about it.

They did the same thing with the 1113 letters and 'no more concessions stuff. I even herad one IAM loyalist say that the IAM stood by their remarks but it was the membership that decided more concessions were necessary.

regards,

DO YOU REMEMBER THE iam's POSITION ON THIS DAY ?

The US Airways Concession Stand is Closed!  

November 22, 2003 - US Airways CEO David Siegel this week discussed additional cost cutting measures with IAM representatives from Districts 141 and 141-M. Siegel did not make any specific requests to the IAM, and it appeared obvious that there is a lack of a strategic plan on the part of US Airways.

“While we are willing to discuss plans to permit the carrier to remain a viable employer, the Machinists Union today informed US Airways that we will not enter into any discussions to change the terms of our collective bargaining agreements – the concession stand is closed,â€￾ said District 141 President Randy Canale and District 141-M President Scotty Ford in a November 20 joint letter to the US Airways membership.

“Our members ratified significant cost reductions while the company was in bankruptcy, providing the carrier with the tools needed to return US Airways to profitability,â€￾ said Canale and Ford. “If US Airways’ executives are incapable of successfully running this airline within the framework of our existing collective bargaining agreements, a more capable management team should be employed.â€￾

 

[Tim Nelson]

I just spoke with a member of the CLT Fleet Committee and he said as of now there are no plans on sharing but that is not written in stone.

The links I provided was just to give you the mentality of the West and East Employees.

You missed the part where Hemenway said the IAM was not going to share the money and the company had nothing to do with it. Someone e-mailed him and that was the response.

Well the IAM wont give up the change of control, they are moving forward and spending money and resources for the arbitration next month.

And I guess you forget Bronner telling the world he will liquidate if he does not get more concessions, and 1113 are worthless when the Judge is in the company's pocket, I sat in the courtroom and witnessed it first hand.

One thing you have to remember and you would rather blame the IAM is that when a company files Chapter 11, the Judge's responsiblity and the law ensures he takes care of the Creditors, ensures the company has a viable POR and the employees are of no concern to anyone.

Every union in the industry has taken massive concessions in and out of court, has to tell you something, even everyone's beloved AMFA got hosed at UAL and gotten beaten badly at NWA.

700, I agree, the unions are very powerless in bankruptcies. I can't blame the IAM for something it doesn't have.
My problem with the 1113's was how the IAM packaged them. They basically said the 1113's were the best thing since sliced bread. The IAM loyalist presented the 1113's as iron clad but in fact the 1113's weren't worth the paper they were printed on in bankruptcy. At the time, I sat in on meetings where we were suppose to go out and sell the first TA on the basis of the security of the 1113.

Unfortunately, i was not wrong when I told people don't believe the IAM lies about the 1113's. And I really hope I'm wrong about the IAM pimping off the change of control grievance in a packaged final transition agreement. I don't believe I will be since the IAM has not made it non-negotiable.

regards,

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

the CWA/IBT sold away their rights in order for the company to recognize the association

Did the CWA sellout or was it really the IAM selling out their membership?
Did the CWA really need to pursue a "change of control" grievance 700UW?
You know the answer 700UW for I pointed it out to you before in PM's.

The CWA already has snapbacks (different then the "change of control" issue) scheduled in their CBA..not only snapback in wages, which is all the "change of control" grievance addresses, but also snapback in vacation, holidays and other issues (shown below).

CWA CBA facts---snapbacks

See CWA CBA page 176

"contract duration"
All snapback provisions of the September 2002 and January 2003 Restructuring Agreements will be eliminated except as provided for in Attachment D

See CWA CBA Attachment D page 197

Snapback date = 12/31/11
Snapback to date = 12/13/99

The 8 snapbacks are below =

1. Sick leave and pay
2. Holidays back to 10
3. Premiums-shift and job
4. Travel,training and per diem
5. Holiday premium hours worked
6. Holiday option II and pay
7. Customer Contact premium (increase)
8. Vacation accrual /Schedule (max 25 days)

How many of those 8 snapbacks above are in the IAM CBA..Zero.. nada.. none.

Does anybody wonder why the CWA CBA given to their membership contains snapback provisions for their concessions while the IAM's doesn't? Why is that? Why is it the IAM let their membership vote on a contract that had no snapback provisions in it while the CWA's did AND the IAM never informed their membership of this fact prior to or anytime after the vote?

Don't let the facts get in your way

 

[700UW]

Well I agree with you, the IAM was behind the ball as were all the unions on the 1113 letters, but since they were new to the whole bankruptcy thing and everyone was listening to Sharon Levine, who was the expert outside counsel and of course the snake in the grass, Glass was a mastermind at exploiting the laws to hose us.

Charlie,

Would you rather snapback now or four or more years from now?

Think about how much more money you would make over that time period.

Ask why the West CSA and Res are not brought up to the current East wages and benefits yet and why they are only getting it a little at a time?

I would rather get it now then wait four or more years to snapback.

And the CWA has snapbacks as they reached an agreement as the company did not want to layoff 54% of their membership, I guess you forgot the CBA was abrogated and we all voted on a final offer.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Well I agree with you, the IAM was behind the ball as were all the unions on the 1113 letters, but since they were new to the whole bankruptcy thing and everyone was listening to Sharon Levine, who was the expert outside counsel and of course the snake in the grass, Glass was a mastermind at exploiting the laws to hose us.

Just making sure this quote is saved for future use......

 

[barbeetantrums]

The Company was advised in our discussions it was our intent to include our West IAM membership in the current profit sharing plan but that our distribution / qualifying formula was not as yet completed for our West membership.

This is from a letter from Randy Canale and can be read by clicking this link.

I've already decided to use this money for lottery tickets. Feeling good about the Powerball! Feeling it in my right toe!

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

And I really hope I'm wrong about the IAM pimping off the change of control grievance in a packaged final transition agreement. regards,

If you look back I think you will see I was the first to make the statement company and union will use the transition negotiations to sell out the memberships right to the arbitration hearing on the "change of control" grievance and I still believe that is what will go down.

 

[longing4piedmont]

This is from a letter from Randy Canale and can be read by clicking this link.

I've already decided to use this money for lottery tickets. Feeling good about the Powerball! Feeling it in my right toe!

Dear Sisters and Brothers,

Your IAM Negotiating Committee met with the Company this week in CLT resuming negotiations, which could be termed substantive and meaningful in content.

The Company was advised in our discussions it was our intent to include our West IAM membership in the current profit sharing plan....

Fraternally,

S.R. (Randy) Canale
President & Directing General Chairman


How could 700 be so wrong again?

 

[Q2DETX5]

I hadn't heard about Sharon Levine being a "snake in the grass", how so?

Just a comment: After the Continental/ Eastern/ Texas Air situation I'd have thought the IAM would be the formost experts on the bankruptcy weapon.

 

[barbeetantrums]

How could 700 be so wrong again?

Because, once again, 700 is muddling up fleet information with mech information. He has a bad habit of turning a fleet discussion into a mech discussion. God forbid a fleet person interjects on a mech thread, however. He won't have any of that from our dirty lot.