Ok Im going to put in my 2 cents. After reading all these posts the part that stands out the most is the lack of communication. If some know how to get on the upgrade list and others dont, its obvious the communication is poor and probably the best thing to do is change the system. 25 hours(before web check in is allowed) each flight should run to check for elites and upgrade them regardless of whether the seat is an F or an E. This would stop elites from having to ask at ato or the gate and maybe shorten some check in lines. Also, elites should verify their elite number is in PNR. Im sure someone could improve on this suggestion but my point is that the system is broken and something should be changed. It makes me smile to see how many of you like your upgrades when there are so many complaints about the product! Just kidding, I see your point! I believe elites are able to upgrade their companion at the time of their upgrade(HP side) although we have problems with the auto system right now. Its new since 1 Mar and the program still has bugs. Call if trvling with a companion so the upgrade can be processed manually. Drifter, I believe their is a way to add tkt number to pnr to process elite on paper tkt. Havent done it for about a year so not sure if what I am remembering is the same thing. Ill pm you about it.
First Up Program
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US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
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I agree. If an elite has earned an upgrade--don't make it a game of waitlists to see who gets it. US's old system of who checks in online first stinks too--it should go by mileage flown. People who fly more than me deserve the upgrade more than me in a waitlist situation--that or ticket price.
And, yes, we do complain about FC, but if we had our choice, we would choose FC over Y--even DP puts his butt in FC rather than in the back of the plane--that surprises me and disappoints me. He and his entourage are known to take up 4 FC seats from elite members on a flight--according to his crew, the changes that are being made are to help the airline generate revenue--well, DP and friends, you just put your big butts in 4 FC seats that could have either generated more revenue for the company or instilled more loyalty in your elites which would have generated more money for the company in the long run.
How about posting this in the breakroom!
Art at ISP
Veteran
Doc,
You are completely missing the point. We are not complaining that the airine is trying to make money. We support the airline's making money. Our issue is that some agents have changed the procedures around to work to their benefit, which, while understandable in some cases, causes more overall harm than good.
We have no problem with trying to sell first ups as long as all the elites on the standby list for upgrades have been accomodated. I would glady hand the gate agents $5 from my pocket to make sure they follow proper procedure. There are a few, however, which we have seen here, who have taken it upon themselves to circumvent normal procedure and sell the upgrades BEFORE clearing the wait list of elite passengers. THIS is where we have a problem, and it is not about elites sitting in coach--if there are no seats available so be it. That is why I always go for an exit row if there is a chance my upgrade won't clear.
When US1's 2's or 3's begin to see people with no status given the opportunity to purchase an upgrade rather than the upgrade being given to them as long as the seat is available, it defeats the purpose of a loyalty program by alienating the customer who has spent tens of thousands of dollars to get that status. That customer is now going to look to another airline, and in many cases, will not be back.
So the question is, is it worth risking tens of thousands of dollars of potential revenue in order to make an extra $50 or $100? That is the question which Tempe needs to address. Furthermore, if they begin manipulating E inventory to prevent many elites from upgrading at their window, they will be creating the same problem, and will risk losing frequent higher yield customers.
The answer to the revenue side is NOT nickel and diming the customers. It is having a RATIONAL and FAIR fare structure with reasonable last minute fares, and no more of the $29-$99 stinkers which do nothing but lose money. Even HP made money with rational fares, and although they may not be the lowest, they were overall lower than the competition, especially for unrestricted travel.
If US wants to continue reducing the benefits and perks of DM, as well as the service levels on board, that is their choice to do so. It is also our choice as customers to react to those changes. The big question is do the paltry savings realized by the cuts make up for the potential loss of revenue? Personally I don't think so, but it's not my airline.
Reducing service/benefits to LCC levels without reducing the fares to LCC levels removes value from the proposition and is a sure fire way to failure.
So we're not bashing U for trying to generate income--we are pointing out that there are better ways to earn even more money.
My best to you all.
You are completely missing the point. We are not complaining that the airine is trying to make money. We support the airline's making money. Our issue is that some agents have changed the procedures around to work to their benefit, which, while understandable in some cases, causes more overall harm than good.
We have no problem with trying to sell first ups as long as all the elites on the standby list for upgrades have been accomodated. I would glady hand the gate agents $5 from my pocket to make sure they follow proper procedure. There are a few, however, which we have seen here, who have taken it upon themselves to circumvent normal procedure and sell the upgrades BEFORE clearing the wait list of elite passengers. THIS is where we have a problem, and it is not about elites sitting in coach--if there are no seats available so be it. That is why I always go for an exit row if there is a chance my upgrade won't clear.
When US1's 2's or 3's begin to see people with no status given the opportunity to purchase an upgrade rather than the upgrade being given to them as long as the seat is available, it defeats the purpose of a loyalty program by alienating the customer who has spent tens of thousands of dollars to get that status. That customer is now going to look to another airline, and in many cases, will not be back.
So the question is, is it worth risking tens of thousands of dollars of potential revenue in order to make an extra $50 or $100? That is the question which Tempe needs to address. Furthermore, if they begin manipulating E inventory to prevent many elites from upgrading at their window, they will be creating the same problem, and will risk losing frequent higher yield customers.
The answer to the revenue side is NOT nickel and diming the customers. It is having a RATIONAL and FAIR fare structure with reasonable last minute fares, and no more of the $29-$99 stinkers which do nothing but lose money. Even HP made money with rational fares, and although they may not be the lowest, they were overall lower than the competition, especially for unrestricted travel.
If US wants to continue reducing the benefits and perks of DM, as well as the service levels on board, that is their choice to do so. It is also our choice as customers to react to those changes. The big question is do the paltry savings realized by the cuts make up for the potential loss of revenue? Personally I don't think so, but it's not my airline.
Reducing service/benefits to LCC levels without reducing the fares to LCC levels removes value from the proposition and is a sure fire way to failure.
So we're not bashing U for trying to generate income--we are pointing out that there are better ways to earn even more money.
My best to you all.
Art at ISP
Veteran
Luv the 9,
Proper pricing would earn much more in revenue than nickel and diming your best customers.
If more of your colleagues were as anti customer as you, there would not be a USAirways today.
How about being constructive instead of destructive..?
JAXPax
Senior
- Jun 18, 2005
- 309
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American essentially does this.... you get 4 free 500-milers per 10K flown then have to buy additional at $25 each per 500 miles. Their top tier gets free upgrades.
Then again, they have a First Class worth upgrading into! Meals with more than a half sandwich and 5 pieces of pasta salad. Heck, I've flown JAX-DFW-STL and gotten fed twice in First.... a choice of hot breakfast on the 90 minute JAX-DFW, served with warm breads, and then a cold-plated full size sandwich, full salad, and cookies on the hour long DFW-STL. Better meals than US serves on transcons, where AA really kicks US butt.
If you're gonna charge for it, make it worthwhile.
Art, I agree. I dont think 9 deals directly with our elites or for that matter any of our customers because if he(she) did he (she) would never have made that post. Many of our elites spend more time with our employees than their own families. They spend so much time and money with us that upgrades should be made avail when possible. Many conduct business or just need a more comfortable seat when trvling. Trust me I understand. Like our employees that may be "working the system" there are those elites that threaten agents " If I dont get an upgrade on my next trip..." If I could upgrade you(over the fon) trust me I would. Nothing makes me happier to have a happy pax(customer for you Piney) instead of the ****** when they are not avail. Remember, trvling on miles tkts makes you ineligible for status upgrades. Please make note. Purchased upgrades are avail thru the normal procedure. I know the elites on this board pay lots for their tkts and more important to that is the loyalty shown over the years. As an HP employee who found this board after the merger was announced I am still awestruck over the dedication to this airline by those of you who do not make your living thru its survival. Thank you for your continued support and often times well thought out suggestions. Regards, Mama ( I dont really work for this airline I am really a voyeur!
All of you are off base. This is a revenue based program how dare anybody confront this issue. I do my job and now the company give me an avenue to bost my income and the companies revune and you all bash it because you want it for free.
Ther are seats still available for ff flyers just not as many and you all ####. I am tired of this dribble.
If I keep on the track I am on noe I will earn 12,000 more a year.
THIATS CLOSE OR AROUND 108,000 FOR THE COMPANY JUST ONE PERSON!!! CAN YOU GENERATE THAT MUCH INCOME!!! PLEASE SOME OF YOU ARE BITCHING ARE IN SALES SO SHAME ON YOU.
TELL ME DO WE LEAVE ALL 16 SEATS OR 26 SEAT OPEN FOR OF YOU AND LET THE REST GO EMPTY.
MAYBE THEN YOU WOULD BE HAPPY....WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SELL THE SEATS...........PERIOD
Ther are seats still available for ff flyers just not as many and you all ####. I am tired of this dribble.
If I keep on the track I am on noe I will earn 12,000 more a year.
THIATS CLOSE OR AROUND 108,000 FOR THE COMPANY JUST ONE PERSON!!! CAN YOU GENERATE THAT MUCH INCOME!!! PLEASE SOME OF YOU ARE BITCHING ARE IN SALES SO SHAME ON YOU.
TELL ME DO WE LEAVE ALL 16 SEATS OR 26 SEAT OPEN FOR OF YOU AND LET THE REST GO EMPTY.
MAYBE THEN YOU WOULD BE HAPPY....WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SELL THE SEATS...........PERIOD
Flying Titan
Veteran
- Oct 14, 2003
- 773
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Doc -
If you really believe this, then go all the way with it. The logical way to make sure you can sell as many upgrades as possible is to NOT offer unlimited free upgrades to your elite travelers.
Of course, if you make that move then you have to factor in the loss of many of these same elites.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to promise these upgrades, then don't turn around and sell them at the gate when the upgrades should have cleared 7, 3, or 1 day before these passengers even got to the gate.
You're right, the airline has a right to decide to sell these upgrades at the gate. It doesn't have the right to promise one thing and then deliver something less. It reduces the airline to nothing more than the stereotype of the slimy, lying used car salesman.
It won't take long to find out how loyal people are to that type of business. In most cases, I'm sure they'd be happy to take their high-revenue tickets to a carrier that lives up to its word.
If you really believe this, then go all the way with it. The logical way to make sure you can sell as many upgrades as possible is to NOT offer unlimited free upgrades to your elite travelers.
Of course, if you make that move then you have to factor in the loss of many of these same elites.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to promise these upgrades, then don't turn around and sell them at the gate when the upgrades should have cleared 7, 3, or 1 day before these passengers even got to the gate.
You're right, the airline has a right to decide to sell these upgrades at the gate. It doesn't have the right to promise one thing and then deliver something less. It reduces the airline to nothing more than the stereotype of the slimy, lying used car salesman.
It won't take long to find out how loyal people are to that type of business. In most cases, I'm sure they'd be happy to take their high-revenue tickets to a carrier that lives up to its word.
Travels2mch
Veteran
And if you did work for this airline, I'd give you a big hug!!
I think Doc didn't do so well in Economics......or spelling, or english for that matter!! :down:
Flight attendants love to have the US 1's up front. They know what they want and know what to expect. The 'wanna be's' who want caviar and dinner on a 20 minute flight who upgraded on a cheap ticket and ring their call bell every 5 seconds are a pain.
Just never expect a f/a to upgrade you or understand anything about the upgrade system as they are told nothing about it. One can get in lots of trouble for upgrading so please take care of it before boarding!
Just never expect a f/a to upgrade you or understand anything about the upgrade system as they are told nothing about it. One can get in lots of trouble for upgrading so please take care of it before boarding!
Dog Wonder
Veteran
Welcome to the "new" US`Airways. It is everyone for theirself. Whether it is a gate agent lookng for five bucks or a simple minded manager trying to protect a turf they know nothing about.
The customers pay, and the company pays, for a mindset bred from working in a place where if you don't get yours some one else will.
It has gotten worse since the merger.
The customers pay, and the company pays, for a mindset bred from working in a place where if you don't get yours some one else will.
It has gotten worse since the merger.
Barbell
Senior
- Nov 16, 2005
- 335
- 0
And it is appreciated! Well, except that the overall premise is wrong. The fares I posted were indeed discounted First Class (YA7UPN) as US1YFARE correctly pointed out. The intent of that post was to counter his assertion that US shouldn't charge the higher F fares if the product doesn't match. I would tend to agree. Legacy HP found that very few people actually paid the full F fare, and following the merger the same would be true of Legacy US. The full F fares are there, some pay them, but not enough to germinate a high-yield demand. The fares remain, but are augmented by the lower YA7UPN and YA0UPN, which more and more people are buying to get their First Class seat without playing Upgrade Roulette. I'm not going to discuss level of service here, that's been covered ad nauseum in other posts. This post is strictly to discuss fares and revenue opportunity.
Now to PB's point: we'll assume that like PB and US1YFARE I'm a PHL based business traveler. I have to to go SFO on business next Tuesday afternoon, and return Friday morning (April 18-21). My company's travel policy allows me to take the lowest logical fare, and even though I've lived in PHL for some time, I don't have true loyalty to US because I only recently started traveling regularly for business. Because I don't have access to GDS fares, we'll have to base these arguments on website data at today's fares. Fares quoted are for similarly timed flights - afternoon departure, and 5-ish arrival back to PHL - nonrefundable lowest available fare.
US n/s $610
AA x/ORD $593
DL x/ATL $610
CO x/IAH $639
NW x/DTW $610
HP x/PHX $571
F9 x/DEN $432
FL x/ATL $439
WN n/s $304
In this case I choose the US n/s (of course this poster is somewhat biased) for the following reasons:
The only other n/s is WN, but I have to fly into OAK, which is inconvenient for the business I have to do, and I like my assigned seat option. All other connections get me in between 9p and midnight, which is not conducive to the schedule I need to keep in SFO. The US arrival at 7 gets me in early enough to get to my hotel and check in before turning in.
So, yes, there are lower fares. However, business travelers will select the flight on lowest logical fare: that which meets all of their needs, not just price.
Which, also to PB's point that one traveler will stay home, we'd rather have one high yield customer than 2 low yield, so that person can stay home.
It will be interesting how Tempe responds. The company is now making quite a bit of money off seats that used to cost more than it made. An example is US305 LGA/FLL. This past week LGA sold 53 First Ups on this particular flight. Thats $5,300.00 x 52 ( some weeks more / some weeks less ) for just one flight !
