First Posted Photo's Of Roachfest 04

[700UW]

Where have you been?

The employees have taken $1.2 Billion in paycuts, workrule changes, benefit reductions and higher medical insurance per year for almost two years.

20,000 employees have been laid off.

Then the company that the employees saved by giving such tremendous sacrifices, lies to its employees, steals from them and declares war on them, instead of fixing the issues.

What "labor-friendly" company goes into a workplace at 3AM a few days before thanksgiving and tells them they no longer have a job and go home?

Also they did not move jobs to AL, they stole the work and outsourced violating a contract they agreed to and had non-us airways employees overahaul them.

You have not walked a minute in anyone's shoes out here and I am offended by your post.

 

[AtlanticBeach]

N700UW,

I regret your taking offense at the post. However, given the current reality, how do you propose to save the company?

 

[700UW]

The employees are the best source of ideas.

The IAM back in March gave the company millions of dollars worth of cost saving ideas and not one has been acted upon.

This company has no leadership and no vision. Lakefield has no airline experience, no one trust Glass.

The company has continued to layoff rank and file employees yet hire more managers and supervisors for less employees, that makes no sense.

I don't have a harvard or yale MBA, but anyone can do a better job then what Siegel and Lakefield have done.

Here are some ideas from a previous post:

Mesa and US have a revenue generating contract. Mesa is guaranted a profit on every single flight, if it has one passenger or 50.

Mesa on top of the flat rate which includes a profit also gets the following from US rembursed, cost of fuel, landing fees, ground operations, lease cost, insurance and Mesa does not have to operate a reservation system or issue tickets.

After running a bunch of tail #s through the FAA database on Mesa planes flying in the US system I come to find they are all leased.

Seems to me the money would be better kept in the group instead of making John Orenstein a rich man. Then at least you would have better quality control over the product.

Geo,

There are numerous opportunities for US to generate more revenue, look at the 5 of the 6 carriers bigger then US (southwest is the exception). All of them, CO, NW, DL, AA and UAL fly to many more international destinations in Europe and Asia. US is minimal in the international market. With US being the #1 carrier in the east and the large presence in the carribean, US could carry many more passengers and gain market share away from the big 5 and international carriers.

A bank of afternoon caribbean to carry the European passengers to the carribean is feasible. US also needs to enter the transcon market from BOS, NYC and WAS to the west coast, US needs a west coast express carrier again to feed the transcons and US all ready has a tremendous east coast presence. And US with the east coast presence, the caribbean and a west coast feeder could probably start flying to HNL, NRT and maybe Bejing.

But this management has no foresight on how to generate revenue, I remember back in the day US got NRT flight and had no plane to fly it and did not make an effort to get one. There are numerous widebodies in the MHV that with minimal effort could be converted to US Airways standards, leased cheap to add to the International and Transcon flight. AA, DL, CO and UA all fly widebodies coast to coast, US doesn't.

There are numerous opportunities for US to take on the big boys, but it takes vision and this management team only has one thing in their vision, to lower the employees standard of living and try and turn a profit out of their hydes.

You have a management team that has squandered two rounds of concessions from all employees, vendors and lesser to a tune of $1.9 Billion per year for almost two years, where has almost $ 4 billion gone?

Then you have a BOD that rewards ineptness, they paid $35 million to messers, Wolf, Gangwal and Nagin, that money could have been recovered legally through the chapter 11 process. Then they pay retainment bonuses for management who does not know how to manage an airline.

You also have a CEO who stood up at numerous Road Shows and told the employees "all furloghed US Airways employees will get employment with MidAtlantic". Has not happened and will not!

You have closed audience captive meetings where I and others were told vote for this contract the second time and you will save your scope language. Then the company blantantly violates the IAM M&R Contract and vendors out the Airbus work and the IAM takes the company to court and now arbitration.

You have the company make an RJ agreement with ALPA that restricts anything over 70 seats to W/Os. Then they buy CRJ-705's which are 76 seats to place at Mesa, then have the nerve to blame the pilots because they had to cancel that order.

Then you have F/A involuntary furloughs when their contract states the company has to offer voluntary furloughs before involuntarily laying anyone off and the AFA had to take it to arbirtration and won, when they had all ready one the same case before!

Then you have ALPA members laid off who were not suppose to be and ALPA had to take it to arbirtration and won.

Then Siegel gets fired, Cohen leaves along with him and US pays them $7 million for making the situation worse.

The bottom line is this management has proven time after time after time that they cannot be trusted, they would rather, lie, cheat and steal from the employees then to figure out how to run an airline.

No airline has ever been saved from going out of business from employee concessions alone. That is only a stop gap measure, you cant take the employees and cut their living down 50%, you can't make this airline a virtual airline, you all saw what happened to ValuJet.

The real issue at hand is revenue generating, and it shows this airline has no idea on how to accomplish this, they would rather destroy the employees standard of living (which by now is just barely surviving) then to run an airline.

US spent $233,000,000 on paying Mesa to fly 50 RJs in the US system, would it not be smarter to give our W/Os the RJs and keep the money in-house?

There are numerous opportunities to work other's airlines flights and we say no, that is throwing money away. Finally someone is waking up because US is working some of Independance Air's flights in certain cities.

US has proven they don't care about the passenger, F/C is a shame and the planes are flithy.

And still no one from the top addresses any of these issues.

I can go on for days, but I will stop here.

US Airways is a rudderless ship.

 

[PITbull]

AtlanticBeach,

Just out of curiosity...did any cockroaches ask managment what concessionary cuts they are proposing to take? Or did that not come up at this meeting?

I figure since labor costs appear to be the primary focus of pax and managment, I figure there would be at least 1 person in the room that would ask about managment future cuts.

I respect the fact the we have some of the greatest loyal customers perhaps of any legacy carrier, and that the customer cares enough to have these types of meetings with management, however, there is a point here that labor will split off with the customer......

as the fares go down, so does our yield, and the employees are being asked to subsidize that lower fare. With fuel prices at all time historical highs, and no future outlook that reveals any kind of stability, we could ALL go broke.

I hope the idea of "rational fares" still stayed in the room VS. the customer expecting any kind of cheap fares system wide and looking for the same level of service in order to stay loyal.

 

[AtlanticBeach]

Where have you been?

The employees have taken $1.2 Billion in paycuts, workrule changes, benefit reductions and higher medical insurance per year for almost two years.

20,000 employees have been laid off.

Then the company that the employees saved by giving such tremendous sacrifices, lies to its employees, steals from them and declares war on them, instead of fixing the issues.

What "labor-friendly" company goes into a workplace at 3AM a few days before thanksgiving and tells them they no longer have a job and go home?

Also they did not move jobs to AL, they stole the work and outsourced violating a contract they agreed to and had non-us airways employees overahaul them.

You have not walked a minute in anyone's shoes out here and I am offended by your post.

[post="166764"][/post]​

Had a few minutes to digest your comments and having read your subsequent post, many of your points are well taken.

However, insurance costs going up? About 10% per year here in Florida. Someone needs to pay. Do you think the customer will be willing to pay an extra $20 per ticket because the US Airways workforce is larger and older and has higher healthcare costs? Ask the Big 3 automakers the answer to that question.

Employees and business owners in other fields seeing a decrease in income? Absolutely. Not just in aviation.

The company should have done a much better job of dealing with the employees. They should have also responded to employee ideas more quickly. I completely agree with that sentiment. Based on what we heard yesterday, some of the employee recommendations are being adopted.

We agree on the payments to Wolf and Gangwal. And Siegel and Cohen.

We completely agree about using Mesa and other contract carriers. Pardon the term, but it is an abortion of an idea that is only practical when there is no source of financing.

I thought that Glass was out of the negotiations and Bruce Ashby was now involved. I don't know about Lakefield's qualifications to run an airline. His job appears to involve watching his employers investment in the company. Like it or not, some CEOs are hired for that reason.

Yesterday was the first time in many years I have heard a vision from the company. Too little, too late? I don't know.

How do you know that any other plan could have saved more jobs? I don't and have not seen any specific recommendations other than the "they stole our work" motto.

The one area that I believe is still fully incorrect is "Also, they did not move jobs to AL...". They DID! RSA's primary function is to maintain the welfare of the citizens of Alabama. Is it an improvement in quality? Most probably not. Is it less expensive? Probably not. Was it done legally or properly? Definitely, NO.

The gist of my post is that fighting the same battle endlessly will not result in a positive outcome.

You are completely correct that I have not walked this mile in your shoes. Nor have you walked a mile in mine. I have done grunt work as bad and ugly as any ramper or mechanic and been CFO of a corporation. Together, they provide for a unique perspective. Have an early morning tomorrow and am loking forward to continuing this discussion.

 

[ktflyhome]

Well, if I am living between CHM and Pit and I want a flight to MiA for a honeymoon cruise, and I can get a cheaper flight out of CHM on United, how loyal do I have to be??? Three hundred dollars difference. Aisle seat, gets me to MIA 4 hours before the ship takes off. A friend of mine, is doing just that. Hardly anyone I talk to, flys USAirways. Too expensive.

Folks in my area will drive 1 to 2 1/2 hours to get a better deal on some other airline but U.

On another note, which is really strange, my son got a companion pass to my home town. He had to fly from IAH to PIT, then home. It was cheaper for him to fly home then just into PIT. Go figure. :blink: :blink:

 

[AtlanticBeach]

AtlanticBeach,

Just out of curiosity...did any cockroaches ask managment what concessionary cuts they are proposing to take? Or did that not come up at this meeting?

I figure since labor costs appear to be the primary focus of pax and managment, I figure there would be at least 1 person in the room that would ask about managment future cuts.

I respect the fact the we have some of the greatest loyal customers perhaps of any legacy carrier, and that the customer cares enough to have these types of meetings with management, however, there is a point here that labor will split off with the customer......

as the fares go down, so does our yield, and the employees are being asked to subsidize that lower fare. With fuel prices at all time historical highs, and no future outlook that reveals any kind of stability, we could ALL go broke.

I hope the idea of "rational fares" still stayed in the room VS. the customer expecting any kind of cheap fares system wide and looking for the same level of service in order to stay loyal.

[post="166779"][/post]​

PB,

Sorry to make this quick, but NO employee issues were discussed, except giving frontline employees more latitude in dealing with customers. We (the organizers, not management) made that decision at the outset.

We have been the group advocating "rational fares" for a long time. Customers were referring to the "ridiculous $29 fare" all day. The folks who attended were very knowledgeable. They knew yield curves, distance variable CASMs and similar concepts.

 

[PITbull]

The gist of my post is that fighting the same battle endlessly will not result in a positive outcome.

You are completely correct that I have not walked this mile in your shoes. Nor have you walked a mile in mine. I have done grunt work as bad and ugly as any ramper or mechanic and been CFO of a corporation. Together, they provide for a unique perspective. Have an early morning tomorrow and am loking forward to continuing this discussion.

[post="166782"][/post]​

[/quote]


AtlanticBeach,

I am compelled to answer your post to 700UW (even though I know he can answer for himself) and I'm not taking any kind of side here....

When you speak above "is that fighting the same battle endlessly will not result in a positive outcome"....under whose definition?

I believe labor is striving for a balance.

The issue of "walking a mile in our shoes" has nothing to do with not "walking a mile in your shoes".. We are not questioning or debating YOUR company or your employment, or debating on your resolve, now are we?

 

[ktflyhome]

Well. at least our customer (base) was heard and mangement showed up to respect those that iniated this discussion. I hope it turned out to be a positive thing for our customers who still to this day....remain loyal. I can only hope that the company respects and appreciates these people and does the right thing by them.

With out the customers...U doesn't exist.

Kudos to those that attended.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Well, if I am living between CHM and Pit and I want a flight to MiA for a honeymoon cruise, and I can get a cheaper flight out of CHM on United, how loyal do I have to be??? Three hundred dollars difference. Aisle seat, gets me to MIA 4 hours before the ship takes off. A friend of mine, is doing just that. Hardly anyone I talk to, flys USAirways. Too expensive.

Folks in my area will drive 1 to 2 1/2 hours to get a better deal on some other airline but U.

On another note, which is really strange, my son got a companion pass to my home town. He had to fly from IAH to PIT, then home. It was cheaper for him to fly home then just into PIT. Go figure. :blink: :blink:

[post="166783"][/post]​

KT

This whole issue was discussed through out the day. Examples just like yours were discussed. They have been testing this in a market outside of the gofare cities and it has proved very successful. This company already has the structure in place to compete in markets that Southwest and JetBlue will never venture into. People ARE willing to pay a little more not to have to drive 2 hours. They just will not pay 2x or 3x more.

I think you are going to see more of these markets rolled out in the near future.

 

[700UW]

The employees did not start the battle, the company after each labor group agreed to concessions (with a gun to our heads) still chooses to this day to violate every groups contract and treat its employees like the enemy.

Now after two rounds of concessions and the pilots lost their pension also, you expect the employees to trust a group of management who lied and stolen from its employees?

I know myself and many others won't, but you can, but see you are not in our shoes.

And Glass is still here, Ashby is just being the front man, but at the end of the day Ashby reports to Glass and Glass controls the negotiations.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

The "quote" button is NOT working properly.

With regard to your response...

I don't believe that asking managment what their fair share of concessions will be is asking on behalf of labor...but nontheless...it wasn't brought up. Fine.

The other issue that I find rather polarizing with labor is the fact that you equate some kind of concession by not having "first class" glassware. Whoa, I'm talking about employees being able to feed their families and still provide them with medical benefits, or making a decision to feed them or pay the auto insurance premiums for the month and utlities.

When you speak of "many of you being business and business being on managment side of the fence", is where I come in and reiterate that this is where the conflict of interest comes in....

We as Labor won't always agree with your stance as a customer. Respect and understand that, that as you try to survive in your business world, we as employees are trying to survive in our business world on a personal level.

We can all leave, as you put it, and look for other jobs, as you can look for other airlines. However, we are in contract talks, and we have a right to vote, just as a citiizen of the USA has the "right to vote". If that vote does not present with the candidate of choice, they can always leave the USA and live else where.

Same principle.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Deleted by OP

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

Agreed... 😉

 

[TomBascom]

The other issue that I find rather polarizing with labor is the fact that you equate some kind of concession by not having "first class" glassware. Whoa, I'm talking about employees being able to feed their families and still provide them with medical benefits, or making a decision to feed them or pay the auto insurance premiums for the month and utlities.

You're absolutely right -- there's no comparison there. It's a stupid thing to say. (and I'm sure Piney knows better...)

Customers cannot make concessions. Thinking that they can, or worse yet thinking that they will, or the ultimate conceit of thinking that they must is a sure road to ruin.

Furthermore -- this particular issue may even be counter-productive as a "concession". If it ultimately accelerates the death spiral by further devauling the product and driving more customers away it just makes it worse for the employees. Yeah, there might be some really stupidly large number being tossed around regarding the cost of glassware. But the numbers needed to solve the financial problem aren't just stupidly large -- they are unfathomably large. Plastic cups aren't going to save the company. The term for it is penny wise and pound foolish.

What customers can do is try to enlighten management about customer desires so that they can be better served -- presumably at a profitable price that the customer is willing to pay. When positive enlightenment doesn't work customers can also complain or take their spending elsewhere. Traditionally customers just do the later -- Roachfest is different in that customers are proactively trying to get a positive message across to management. That doesn't happen very often.