Roachfest 04 Makes The Headlines

[US1YFARE]

Southwest on the other hand charges $362.80 for a fully refundable round trip. That equates to about .15 cents per seat mile. Granted, their costs are lower, but do you notice that 15 cents is 3.32 cents OVER the current CASM? Looks like they are fighting Southwest with a fare that they can match and still make money, but you can't. Imagine what the results would look like if Go Fares only attempted to match, not beat, Southwest.

[post="172419"][/post]​

That was just one example of a refundable fare. I was able to get that $250 fare, but other flights on U only had fares in the mid $300's (maybe the $362.80 you quoted). Under the GoFare concept, I have found several different fares that are refundable but at different prices. Also, I don't think U ever said they were beating WN's fares. Don't forget, U is selling paid FC tickets on some of these flights because the FC fare is so low and the flights are packed. I know a lot of people who now purchase the $700 FC ticket (even on leisure) because the price is so reasonable.

 

[ringmaruf]

You've sort of just pointed out the flaw in Go Fares....according to their last 10Q report, the CASM is 11.68 cents. It's 1,162.8 miles one way from PHL to FLL...2,325.6 miles round trip. And as you say, US will sell you a fully refundable round trip ticket for $250.

Now...when I do the simple math...$250 divided by 2,325.6, I get a result of 10.7 cents per seat mile. That tells me that they could load the plane with nothing but fully refundable ticket purchasers.... and still not make a profit on the flight. Southwest on the other hand charges $362.80 for a fully refundable round trip. That equates to about .15 cents per seat mile. Granted, their costs are lower, but do you notice that 15 cents is 3.32 cents OVER the current CASM? Looks like they are fighting Southwest with a fare that they can match and still make money, but you can't. Imagine what the results would look like if Go Fares only attempted to match, not beat, Southwest.

[post="172419"][/post]​

Well, since that flight is a bit more than the average stage length, I'd imagine CASM on there would be maybe half a cent less. Not a big difference, but there.

And as has already been mentioned, that's certainly not US's highest fare on the route.

 

[US1YFARE]

And as has already been mentioned, that's certainly not US's highest fare on the route.

[post="172447"][/post]​

Also, the fare that KCFlyer quotes is not WN's lowest. The lowest is around $98--considerably different from $350 plus. I'm not sure how many of those WN is selling, but the profit is not much as implied.

 

[Dilligas]

Dilligas

I and others who lurk here try to understand the frustration and bitterness of the employees who post on this board. I say try to understand because we don't walk in your shoes, thus we will never completely understand.

Thank you for your efforts to understand.

I'm not going to defend Piney here as he does this quiet well on his own. However, you will not find anyone, anywhere who cares more about the survival of your company. ..

We simply wanted to provide ideas that would help save the place, and your job.

I doubt the motives were all that pure. As to saving jobs, did you raise any stink about the actions of U to outsource the longstanding work of loyal U employees covered by contracts? More likely your motives were more to saving your accumulated FF miles and perks, and improving service, this is where your concerns should be. If labor issues were off the table, then obviously the Cockroach club has no interest in preserving the jobs of the good folks who strive to offer superior service under adverse conditions. Your interest is very self serving, that's fine, just don't try to color it as something it is not.

Had you been there I believe at the very least it would have warmed your heart that you have customers who care as much as you once did

You have no right or basis to make assumptions as to how much I "care."


Regardless of how you feel about Piney, when you go after him on this subject, I find it very offensive. He is trying to save your job.

Too bad it offends you, that is truly not my intent. My intent is to shine a bright light on the cockroach in the kitchen, and offer an alternative view to the ego spin on this board. And trust me, whatever Piney or anyone else in your group does, it has zero effect on MY job. Zero.

Your group has been co-opted by a few dollars, some fluff press, and a chance to feel important. You have accomplished nothing in the real world and have not improved the lot of loyal U employees one iota. But hey, some of you got some attention, and maybe your name in the paper.

But thanks for writing.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Can I buy the next round (oh, and in glassware with limes )?

 

[US1YFARE]

No but WN does sell more full fare tickets than any other airline. Just that there "Full Fare" is $299.00 one way

[post="172467"][/post]​

Even on WN only routes? (By that I mean a route where another carrier is competing against WN). Where is that information published--that is pretty interesting. I sure bought a lot of Y fares before WN came to town.

Also, what is considered a "full fare" these days? Several of the GoFares are refundable even if it isn't the highest that could ever be charged. I can't find a Y fare on any GoFare route...they all have weird fare classes. If US is selling $299 one way tickets to Florida (last minute), that is still better for the pax and US is making money on that flight. I guess my point is, why aren't GoFares something to get excited about? Loads are up--aren't they? The fares are very reasonable for pax. Why do people keep bashing them? Everywhere you look in PHL, you see a GoFare billboard, print ad, you hear a radio ad, TV ad--yeah, it's a gimick, but it's filling the planes--at least it appears to be filling the planes.

I think it is also good that US has started selling discounted premium tix. FC GoFares to the west coast, LAS, etc. Also, the discounted Envoy tickets. They are a great idea. My wife and I took advantage of them to Italy with our 2 kids (everyone had a seat). (My wife is US3 and she refuses to sweat out the upgrade on a long flight.) There are lots of people who will pay a reasonable amount to fly in the premium class. Doesn't that help yields? And with all of the bonus miles I got, I earned enough miles for a free ticket--not bad.

Why no excitement about these changes? Are they really failing that miserably?

 

[Dilligas]

Well I'm doing the best I can so thanks for the kind words. I didn't and don't know what to do all of the time. I only know that doing nothing was NOT an option. Have I done bad? yes I have. Do I try to get it right? More than you know.

When the frontliner at RF said "Thanks for trying to save my job" I knew I was on the right path.

Cue the violins, our hero, Piney Bob, single handedly saving the airline. Who knew a copier sales trainer held all the answers? Thank you Piney for saving us from ourselves.

As for you Dilligas I offer the following:

Dilligas, join me in the arena, Stand & deliver! Or does the role of critic suit you more than being the "Doer of Deeds"? A Fair question I think.

Bobby, you only THINK you're in the arena. The 20,000 former U employees let go in the past few years were IN THE ARENA. The stressed out and anxious 26-28 thousand employees left are IN THE ARENA. You are simply a sideshow, a diversion, a decoration. You're a useful tool for the puppeteers, who sold his independence for recognition and attention. What you desire most is attention and fawning, and saving your own self interests, as you have said many times. Your attempts to paint yourself as the noble protector of the working man is ridiculous.

And to CCY I offer more from TR, When the time came to charge San Jaun hill. Teddy Roosevelt did not sound the charge, He Said two simple words "FOLLOW ME" It's time to lead not lawyer.

As I told you about a year ago, and you still don't grasp the concept, these people are not "airline people" that came up thru the ranks and give a hoot about the company. They are opportunists and financiers that see an opportunity to profit on the backs of the U employees.

The company is sitting on over 700 million dollars of operational efficencies that they refuse to implement, supposedly. Bobby, if you were IN THE ARENA, you would truly know that the Emperor has no clothes and has no integrity. There never was a plan to rebuild U as a going concern, only to break labor and reap the fruits of what the employees built over the years.

Quit deluding yourself, you are not, and never have been IN THE ARENA at U. You simply found a clever way to attract attention to yourself, you live on a message board, and you crave attention. Don't insult the real, working folks that labor under some intense pressure and frustrating conditions, that you are IN THE ARENA, fighting for them. You have NO IDEA what these people are dealing with each and every day in the workplace.

That being said, have a great time on Bama Air.

 

[AtlanticBeach]

And trust me, whatever Piney or anyone else in your group does, it has zero effect on MY job. Zero.

[post="172488"][/post]​

Dilligas, I was wondering where defrocked civil service employees went after they were separated for incompetence.

If you work for this business, the actions of EVERY customer or potential customer effects your job. The contempt displayed in the prior post indicates a hatred of the people who make your livelihood possible.

This may put me in the cornfield, but your attitude needs to be adjusted in that same cornfield.

 

[KCFlyer]

Even on WN only routes? (By that I mean a route where another carrier is competing against WN). Where is that information published--that is pretty interesting. I sure bought a lot of Y fares before WN came to town.

[post="172498"][/post]​

Yep. Just go to Southwest's website, enter a one way flight from BWI to LAX tomorrow, it's $299. And even if they are the only game in town, they do not gouge. MCI-STL is one route that they "own"...AA pulled the route about a year ago. MAximum one way fare is $74. Before SWA served that route, a refunable one way fare was in the neighborhood of $250.

And in my previous post, I was trying to compare "apples to apples" - refundable fare to refundable fare. Yes, SWA offers lower fares. Some considerable lower. But....their revenue management folks seem to have figured out how many seats they can afford to sell at that rate. After the lowest fare bucket, almost every other one is at a rate that will cover costs. The problem is, many airlines trying to "out Southwest" Southwest end up selling a planeload of money losing tickets.

 

[Dilligas]

Dilligas, I was wondering where defrocked civil service employees went after they were separated for incompetence.

I think they go into dentistry.

If you work for this business, the actions of EVERY customer or potential customer effects your job. The contempt displayed in the prior post indicates a hatred of the people who make your livelihood possible.

I certainly have no hatred for airline customers. The over reaction to my post, while failing to address any facts, shows your bias and your own fear. Why do you feel the need to attempt to insult me. Use your superior intellect to destroy my argument logically. You have a high sensitivity to any criticism of the cockroach club, and you may be beginning to realize that the company co-opted your little club, and are embarrassed.

This may put me in the cornfield, but your attitude needs to be adjusted in that same cornfield.

I don't see anything in your post or in mine that warrants a censure...I try to make my points with a touch of humor, some sarcasm, and to be truthful. You really have no clue about my "attitude", you just disagree with my message. If that banishes me to a cornfield, so be it. You cockroach clubbies are a sensitive bunch, aren't ya?

Lighten up, U is not the be-all, end-all to life. Long after this turmoil is finally put to rest, we will all continue with our lives, some will lose more than others. Many will prosper and live healthier, more balanced lives. Life goes on.

Best wishes,

D

 

[Dilligas]

I wouldn't mind debating you Dilligas if you had ONE clue about what you're talking about.

Bobby, you don't debate. You pontificate, you pronounce, and then you are the attacker, certainly not I. I simply point out some observations and you take it extremely personal and resort to this high pitched emotional type posting. I can almost see the veins popping in your neck. Relax.

What I offer is that YOU have no first hand knowledge of the working conditions of the U workforce. You are cozying up to management, proud of your access, you even brag of it in this very post. That is very revealing of your inate insecurity in yourself, you need the validation of others to feel important, and the attention you get in this forum. It makes you feel better about yourself, then fine. Just don't try to paint it as a noble attempt to save the jobs for the working class folks.


As for "In The Arena" Can YOU get a Sr. Executive to take your call? I can! I don't abuse the priveledge, but I can. Not only that but I get them returned.

This means nothing to me. Does it make you feel important?


What about your dire predictions regarding front lne employees getting fired for attending? That turned out to be more vomit out of your mouth as the person in question is STILL employed?

IF you would reread my post, I never said they would be fired. I simply warned any U employee of revealing their identity to you, which is by proxy, revealing it to management. U issued a new ethics policy which was quite specific about people posting on the internet and "identifying themselves as U employees." If you think that U does not stifle debate, where are several very prominent posters that used to be on here, and did not take steps to cover their identity? By their postings, they were very obvious to many of us IN THE ARENA who they were. They have been warned, and they no longer post.


I was wondering when you would slither out of the primordial ooze to attack. Welcome back.

Thank you for the sincere, and mature welcome. Sorry I don't swallow your BS and think you're a savior. To me, you're just another opportunist exploiting the plight of the workers at U for your own personal reasons. You are similiar to the insecure turf protectors in management, that rather than thoughtfully consider any other approach or another's opinion, take any criticism as personal and react in a knee jerk and predictable fashion. Although I strongly disagree with you, I have not resorted to the tactics which you yourself implement against anyone that doesn't worship you.

 

[Art at ISP]

OK, this thread is getting derailed here by nonsense. We each play a different role in what's happening here. Dilligas you're right. We are not employees and we don't know what YOU have been going through. We DO however know what the employees we come in contact with every day go through, as in many cases they tell us about it. Enough of the Bob bashing already--Bob was instrumental in starting a group which is the ONLY grass roots group of customers which has made such an effort to save and grow a major airline. Name another airline who has such a devoted group of customers. And despite what you think of management, name another airline management team who took personal weekend time to meet with such a customer group--I will tell you there is none.

I take offense when you accuse us of being opportunists and exploiting the workers--you could not be further from the truth. We made an honest effort to help--to show another side of the issues to those who attended. We did NOT whine about privileges or perks or other nonsense although they were discussed. We tried to convey some ideas which could be helpful for ALL involved in saving and growing the company. We even told them that the lowest Go Fares are just too low! We want REASONABLE fares, not artificially depressed fares.

It was not our place to discuss labor issues with those who attended. What we DID say, however, was that the excellent EXPERIENCED employees who deal with us every day are a MAJOR reason why we stay--that your colleagues are the best in the industry.

You know what? No one on this board--neither you nor us nor any of the other members here are going to have any real say as individuals in what happens from here on--but at the end of the day my fellow Roaches and I will know we at least TRIED to help. EVERY time I deplane from a US flight I express my appreciation to the F/A or pilots for doing a great job in spite of everything that's happening. And I always thank the gate agents when boarding--it seems to mean alot to them.

I know you and your group are frustrated--but taking it out on those of us who are only trying to help is wrong. Let it go already.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread........

 

[BoeingBoy]

My two cents worth....

Most people approach the world with a particular "view" of themselves, and there are instances where the people in particular occupations tend to exihibit certain tendencies.

Most pilots fall into the "occasionally wrong but never in doubt" camp, and I absolutely include myself. Guess it's something in the environment that we work in or something - second guessing or hesitancie can be fatal.

For Bob, I can only assume that your job pretty much requires you to go out and "sell" yourself, if not every day then often enough. Some amount of ego is absolutely essential in such a career - after all, if you don't think you're the best it's hard to convince anyone else.

These character traits tend to come out over time in a forum such as this where the social niceties can fade into the background - at least I suspect mine do. That doesn't make them inherently good or bad in this setting. We all have our opinions, and we all (well, at least some of us including me) tend to express them.

As something of an aside, it is somewhat amazing to me that passengers can and do take an interest in what's happening at this place beyond their personal interests. Just this last trip, I was standing in the jetway saying "hi" to the folks as they passed when a gentleman asked how negotiations were going, and wished us good luck. Of course, he could have been a non-rev from another airline, knew someone at this airline, or whatever. Or he could have just been another passenger who happened to see something in the paper that morning.

Of course, that incident is nothing like the passion of some of our passengers that take part here. Are some of you occasionally ill-informed about the minute details of life as an airline employee - certainly. However, that doesn't mean your intentions are any less honorable.

Thanks to all of you for choosing to fly with, and support us.

Jim

 

[cavalier]

[post="172556"][/post]​

Dill, I bet you read Dean Koontz, this post was taken right out of Phantoms.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

[post="172556"][/post]​

UAIR's policy on employee postings on the internet appies to using copany rescources, not to anyting an employee does with his or own resources. At the risk or oversimplification:This would be be akin to an employee writing a letter to the editor of a newpaper; the employee woud not be permitted to use company stationery when expressing her own opinion.