Aa And Pensions

[FWAAA]

The farther behind one gets in meeting financial obligations, the more difficult it is to catch up. I fear that AA would use the money for other things, and would not be able or willing to fund the retirement plans for the rank and file.

I guess it boils down to trust and fear.

BTW, I can't remember, has AA taken a position on the Bush administration's plan to increase the PBGC funding from $19 to $30 per year per employee? Or the proposal to require higher contributions from companies that are more underfunded?

[post="278496"][/post]​

Excellent points. And if rising interest rates had nothing to do with helping to eliminate the "underfunding" then I would agree 100%. And to be fair, interest rates might not rise. But nearly everyone expects them to, and the fed has tried to raise them over the past year or so by raising the fed funds rate several times.

And the numbers don't show that AA is "falling farther behind" in its pension funding. In fact, the opposite is true - it is catching up. It is now better funded than any other airline DB plan at over 80%.

If AA had access to vast amounts of borrowed money at low rates, then AA could do what GM did last year or the year before when it issued $15 billion of new debt and contributed the $15 billion directly to its DB plans. If AA had the money lying around (or had lots of lenders willing to lend to it at low rates) then I'm guessing that AA wouldn't be trying to stretch out the catch-up timetable.

Don't know the answers to your last paragraph.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

AA will probably freeze the DB plan in the near or middle future, regardless of what congress does. It will probably be rather similar to what they did with the non union employees a few years ago.

The determining factor with regard to its palatability will be how the transition is handled and the matching percentage. The IBM thing with cash-balance still has a lot of companies wondering which way to go.

 

[enough already]

Notice that AA calls it a "contribution" rather than a required payment. A contribution is voluntary and done out of the goodness of the donor's heart. Neither applies here.

Since when does making a required payment call for a press release and a joint lovefest from the tame unions?

[post="278337"][/post]​

That reminds me, it's just about time for my 15 day letter telling me to give my dues "contribution"

 

[upsilon]

Let's see what kind of tribute he would get in the breakrooms with his speech. Anyone can get a standing O in a controlled environment with 300 handpicked employees.

[post="278476"][/post]​

Now Dave, let's also see…BTW, you are the former PB poster AMFADave, right? ….

The news article says [emphasis added by me) "Arpey and about 300 American Airlines employees, including the heads of its flight attendants', pilots' and transport workers' unions, came together in D.C. this week to tell Congress they want to save their pension plans. American wants pension reform -- but not laws that would make keeping its plans more difficult.

I am sure you and AMFA would say the national TWU head was "handpicked", since you call it a 'company' union. But the heads of the APA and APFA - real non-national 'company unions' - "handpicked empolyees"? Hardly!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Now Dave, let's also see…BTW, you are the former PB poster AMFADave, right? ….

The news article says [emphasis added by me) "Arpey and about 300 American Airlines employees, including the heads of its flight attendants', pilots' and transport workers' unions, came together in D.C. this week to tell Congress they want to save their pension plans. American wants pension reform -- but not laws that would make keeping its plans more difficult.

I am sure you and AMFA would say the national TWU head was "handpicked", since you call it a 'company' union. But the heads of the APA and APFA - real non-national 'company unions' - "handpicked empolyees"? Hardly!

[post="278759"][/post]​

AMFADAVE...No sorry, or as AMFADAVE would say...GO FISH.

So it wasn't handpicked for the APA and the APFA but when over 50 AMT's put in to go from 1 station and they choose 1 or 2 known management brown-nosers/twu bubba believers, only ones on the list, what are we suppose to call it but handpicked.

Like I said tell Aprey to peddle his pension stuff in the breakrooms and see the reaction. And for the record, AMFA doesn't tell me what to say, I speak as a un-represented twu member.

 

[High Speed Steel]

And for the record, AMFA doesn't tell me what to say, I speak as a un-represented twu member.

[post="278792"][/post]​

No "dipchit", You are represented. You are just in denial.....

 

[AMFAMAN]

No "dipchit", You are represented. You are just in denial.....

[post="278793"][/post]​

That's right union representation twu style..."that can do that brother". I guess you are correct.

You are probally also correct about being in denial. I thought almost 20 years ago that I was getting into a unionized profession. These days I'm surrounded by shop stewards and officers ratting members out and continously pumping me full of compAAny BS. :blink:

 

[Wretched Wrench]

No "dipchit", You are represented.

[post="278793"][/post]​

No, pottymouth.

I am "represented" by Jim Little. He was appointed, not elected.

.

 

[Bob Owens]

That's right union representation twu style..."that can do that brother". I guess you are correct.

You are probally also correct about being in denial. I thought almost 20 years ago that I was getting into a unionized profession. These days I'm surrounded by shop stewards and officers ratting members out and continously pumping me full of compAAny BS. :blink:

[post="278857"][/post]​

From the "Lexicon of Labor"

company union- Sometimes called an "employee representation plan", it is a union in name only because it's fostered, financed and dominated by management to discourage a bona fide union from being organized. In effect the company negotiates with itself.


OK lets see how the TWU stacks up.
"fostered" by management, Well we saw how the company added the names of dead workers, retired workers and people who never worked for AA to prevent the vote. WE also see how the company and the TWU openly embrace each other in Tulsa where the President of the Local calls top manager "Brother".

"financed" by management. The company agreed to pay $3.1 million/year to the TWU so they could make having 24,000 members spread out between 20 locals economically feasible. By making the only part of the system where democratic accountability is in place, the only part where members have a say, small and weak, it makes the International more powerful.

"Dominated", Its no longer a secret that for several years before taking office in the TWU that Jim Little was AA management, as was his father in law.

So the TWU does meet the criteria of a company union.

During the Concessions of 2003 the negotiators spent all their time, on company property, negotiating between themselves. Jim Little dictated what they could or could not do.

THe TWU at AA is an organizition that is "fostered" by AA in that AA helps to prevent raids. They want to keep their union in place.

The TWU at AA is financed by the company. Without the $3.1 million most of the smaller Locals would not be viable. Presidents of small locals would no longer be able to be off the clock and still recieve a 40 hour paycheck. Facing the prospect of having to work alongside their members these Presidenbts, like Jack Madish, will do whatever Little tells them to do.

The TWU at AA is "dominated" by management. Not only is the head of the ATD who has complete control over our contract and can and has modified it at will, management but its been a long standing trend that former officers in the TWU who do not make it to the ultimate gravy train-The International, usually get taken in and given position in management.

The facts bear out that the TWU at AA is a union in name only. They are fostered by management, financed by management, and dominated by management. They have consistantly provided AA a labor cost advantage over its major competitors for at least 20 years. As a result the TWU has been rewarded by a quadrupling of its number of dues paying "members" from AMR. AA's company union is perhaps the best deal going since they have a company union where like retiree health care, medical benifits etc they have the employees themselves bearing most of the cost.

 

[local 12 proud]

"At Least You Have A Job Brother"................tobacco juice streaming down the chin!

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

A good read if you want to get mad. CEO pensions and thier total disregard for you or your retirement. :angry:


http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P119362.asp

 

[Bob Owens]

"At Least You Have A Job Brother"................tobacco juice streaming down the chin!

[post="278967"][/post]​

Yep we got a job, but we dont have a union, we just pay for one.

 

[Hackman]

No "dipchit", You are represented. You are just in denial.....

[post="278793"][/post]​

Did you take a break from HEE-HAW (Hey grampa! Wuts fer supper?) and think of that sharp retort all by yourself? :blink: :blink:

Denial of what? That Do-little is not a unaccounable mAAnagement stooge? h34r: