AMR Announces Additional $100 Million Pension Contribution

[Bob Owens]

Actually, I suspect they have determined that they really are losing customers to United's p.s. service, and have decided to take some action to stop it.

The passengers that are buying full fare J and F on these flights, and I do believe that there are more than a few, really do know the difference between products.

Now, having said that, please don't take this post in any way as an attempt at casting doubt on the ability of management to piss away money on a variety of things. It's just that I happen to believe that this investment is a wise one.

I dont. Invest in your people first, because after all if the plane is sitting in a hangar because nobody gives a crap then those seats wont be attracting anybody.

 

[eolesen]

So are you saying that you have to spend money to make money?

The fact is that there was nothing wrong with the old seats and the passengers wouldnt have known the difference either way. They have no way of knowing when they buy their tickets if the plane has the new seats or the old ones.

Its just another example of management pissing away money while they are telling us we need to do more for less.

You really are out of touch with what customers want, Bob.

My 2007 budget for air travel is more than your pre-concession salary, and if you think I want to spend 8-10 hours in a crappy seat with ten years worth of flatulence embedded in it, you're quite mistaken.

 

[Oneflyer]

So are you saying that you have to spend money to make money?

The fact is that there was nothing wrong with the old seats and the passengers wouldnt have known the difference either way. They have no way of knowing when they buy their tickets if the plane has the new seats or the old ones.

Its just another example of management pissing away money while they are telling us we need to do more for less.

You couldn't be more wrong. Most J passengers know and quite frankly AA is a below average product. AA is in desperate need of an upgrade.

 

[flyastrojets]

Post deleted.

 

[Bob Owens]

You couldn't be more wrong. Most J passengers know and quite frankly AA is a below average product. AA is in desperate need of an upgrade.

How do they know which aircraft have the new interiors?

Like I said, if the plane is sitting in the hangar those seats wont impress anybody. They need to invest in their people first.

 

[Oneflyer]

How do they know which aircraft have the new interiors?

Like I said, if the plane is sitting in the hangar those seats wont impress anybody. They need to invest in their people first.

Because they track the tail numbers. Because they know what routes AA flies certain types of aircraft on.

Bob, if anyone though AMT productivity would improve by increasing the pay they would. But anyone that has ever walked through a Maintenance base or line mtx area has seen the the AMTs sitting there sleeping or looking annoid that someone expects them to work and that was before concessions.

 

[eolesen]

How do they know which aircraft have the new interiors?

I don't go so far as to track tail numbers, but there are plenty of people on FlyerTalk who do.

My approach is to simply avoid the 767 on AA whenever possible. Since LHR is my airport of choice when heading to Europe, it's easy enough to be scheduled to fly on a 777. But my last trip back required me to fly home on a 763 via LGW, and it's the last time I'll do that. Next time, I'll pass on the AAdvantage miles and fly back on BA or take one of the other oneworld carriers.

 

[Hopeful]

Because they track the tail numbers. Because they know what routes AA flies certain types of aircraft on.

Bob, if anyone though AMT productivity would improve by increasing the pay they would. But anyone that has ever walked through a Maintenance base or line mtx area has seen the the AMTs sitting there sleeping or looking annoid that someone expects them to work and that was before concessions.

What an arrogant bull#### comment, typical of of pro management wannabes.
They don't want to increase worker's salaries, plain and simple. Did you ever wonder that maybe on midnights you may see someone with his/her eyes closed because they were on a lunch break? The human body is NOT suited to be awake all night long. We are not nocturnal creatures.

I guess no one works as hard as a high six figure executive!

 

[Oneflyer]

What an arrogant bull#### comment, typical of of pro management wannabes.
They don't want to increase worker's salaries, plain and simple. Did you ever wonder that maybe on midnights you may see someone with his/her eyes closed because they were on a lunch break? The human body is NOT suited to be awake all night long. We are not nocturnal creatures.

I guess no one works as hard as a high six figure executive!

Since it was between normal working hours, I guess they were just taking a siesta?

Give it a rest man, no one is out to get you, or keep the little man down. For you, these are emotional decisions for management they are financial. There is a huge difference and its a big part of the reason you always end up feeling like you got screwed.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, if anyone though AMT productivity would improve by increasing the pay they would.

Thats a lie. When mechanics got their raises productivity increased dramatically, OT was eliminated and reliablity improved. Then they slashed wages and expected the same performance.Everyone knows that since they slashed wages the productive effort of mechanics has decreased dramatically, despite the huge propaganda efforts of the company and the TWU to paint a different picture.

But anyone that has ever walked through a Maintenance base or line mtx area has seen the the AMTs sitting there sleeping or looking annoid that someone expects them to work and that was before concessions.

And whose fault is that? Nobody who ever went to school to become an A&P did so with the expectation that there would be a lot of down time. Sure there are some guys that dont want to work, once again, whose fault is that? The fact is management controls the work, if a mechanic is sitting there sleeping its most certainly because he has already accomplished his assigned tasks.

As far as guys sleeping on nights, the company has unrealistic expectations to think that workers will not sleep on nights. Human beings are not nocturnal. Even management does it.

At Crandalls Presidents conference jealous workers from other departments would complain about seeing what they considered to be idle mechanics, Crandalls response was "If my airplanes are ready I dont have a problem with that. Next question." The fact is that the company determines how many mechanics they have, they assign the work and they are well aware of the fact that mechanics who have completed their tasks and are waiting for reassignment may nap until they are reassigned.

We can go back and forth about productivity but the nature of maintenance is one that makes it hard to quantify productivity. Do we measure it by manhours or wages paid vs ASMs produced? If so then the sleeping mechanic could be measured as being more productive than the one out there changing filters and lubing the gear. Lets say a mechanic is assigned to a 777, and there are no items in the book, and another mechanic is assigned to an MD-80 with a load of items. The mechanic assigned to the 777 could do nothing , while the mechanic assigned to the MD-80 works his but off yet using that measure no matter how hard he works he could never be as productive as the guy assigned to the 777. Do we measure it by tasks or repairs accomplished per manhour? If we do that then an increase in productivity could very well translate into a dramatic decrease in ASMs produced, such as when mechanics are accused of having a job action. When mechanics have job actions they dont reduce the amount of tasks they accomplish, they increase the amount.In fact when management doesnt see any mechanics in the break room they usually assume that there is a job action or something is wrong. An empty breakroom usually means delays, because if they arent there it means they are working, and if they are working it means an airplane isnt ready to go.

The fact of the matter is we sell our time, which is not renewable, to the company. Its up to them to get the most out of that time. If we are sitting around or working its up to them. Nothing prevents the company from getting 8 hours work from 8 hours pay. However if you screw us over, as the company has, dont expect that 8 hours to be delivered with the enthusiasm that makes the difference between an airplane out there making money and and airplane generating work for mechanics.Remember that if mechanics are working on the plane the owner or operator of the plane its not making money until they are done.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Because they track the tail numbers. Because they know what routes AA flies certain types of aircraft on.

Bob, if anyone though AMT productivity would improve by increasing the pay they would. But anyone that has ever walked through a Maintenance base or line mtx area has seen the the AMTs sitting there sleeping or looking annoid that someone expects them to work and that was before concessions.

They pay us for what we know not for what we do
😀

 

[Wretched Wrench]

re: idle time.......When I worked midnites, every airplane was different. If you got it fixed, you rested or helped someone else. If things were more time-consuming, you stopped only long enough to eat or wait for parts. Waiting for parts was usually good for a very long rest if you worked at the gate.

Before too many of these second-hand stories gain a life of their own, Supes also lose their jobs for allowing sleeping. Come on out and ask around.

 

[Bob Owens]

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/downloads/22770amr_pres.pdf

Scroll down to page 25 and you will see why AA put as much as they have into the pension.


So they could claim that their labor costs are the highest.

AA was point one seven cents higher than Delta and a whopping point nine nine cents higher than Jet Blue.


AA claims that their costs were a little more than half a penny more than SWA, but if we exclude all pension payments what would they be? By manipulating the payments they can make any claim they want to. So they fall behind at one point,(in fact they get the unions to lobby to allow them to fall behind even more) then add a little extra and claim that they saw an increase in labor costs. Factual-yes, Honest -NO.

 

[Hackman]

Since it was between normal working hours, I guess they were just taking a siesta?

Give it a rest man, no one is out to get you, or keep the little man down. For you, these are emotional decisions for management they are financial. There is a huge difference and its a big part of the reason you always end up feeling like you got screwed.

Usually it's one of three things smart guy;

1. Waiting for parts or equipment. Since management got rid of most of the stock (to reduce costs and increase bonuses) it takes much more time to complete an engine/aircraft. Order parts, and wait.

2. Waiting on a engineering decision. This could take days, and sometimes longer. They are asked to stick their neck out often, so I don't blame them for taking their time.

3. Waiting on a management decision. Whoa, this is a good one, many delays here. Most the time they don't know the systems or airframe (that's why they aren't repairing aircraft) so usually the desision causes more work when it finally does come, or its wrong. Often they sidestep it altogether and wait for someone else to make it for them, because they don't want to look more incompetent then they are. Can't move up the ladder that way.

I bristle at your quip that the decisions made by management are only financial. So what NWA management and Dougie Stealin' did to his AMT's (and other employees also)wasn't because of vendetta against them??? It's a well known fact he wanted to hammer them for the AMFA 2001 Industry Leading Contract. The fact they fought all the way to a PEB really pissed Dougie off. So he hatched his illegal $108 million scab plan. Cost the airline dearly, but the bankruptcy laws helped him out, he got very rich in the process. So don't state no one is out to get the middle class workers, big business is about as vindictive and evil as you get. More is never enough.

 

[eolesen]

AA claims that their costs were a little more than half a penny more than SWA, but if we exclude all pension payments what would they be?

You're only talking tenths of a cent.

If you look at the minimum payment of $223 and the actual payments of $323 vs. the $6.8B paid for wages/benefits, pension funding accounted for 3.27% and 4.74% respective of the wages/benefits line, and 1.04% to 1.50% respective when you compare to the $21.5B net for expenses.

The $100M "overpayment" had a net impact of somewhere around 0.04c per ASM. Nowhere near enough to shift the balance to where AA becomes cheaper than someone else.

Plus, you can't eliminate ALL pension payments, Bob. If the plans were terminated and shifted over to a 401K match, there'd still be an associated expense.

By manipulating the payments they can make any claim they want to. So they fall behind at one point,(in fact they get the unions to lobby to allow them to fall behind even more) then add a little extra and claim that they saw an increase in labor costs.

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