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Wait a second, this was while you were on Juliet? Our ramp tower controls all of WN's pushes...
FAVORITSM
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Wait a second, this was while you were on Juliet? Our ramp tower controls all of WN's pushes...
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
No - I am not the same pilot. But from the sound of your tone, you must be the jerk who lets WN get away with their nonsense. So $%&* you and the horse you rode in on.
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
Aircraft were being sent down to spot 11 or 12. A Southwest pushed onto Juliet and asked if his buddies could push into the line in front of him. He went on to state that they spoke to ground control and they had no problem with this little arrangement. So out come two Southwest 73's into the line ahead of twenty or more other aircraft who had been waiting their turn.
That's when I asked about what was going on. That's when I got the smart alec response - similar to OCCATC.
Hey Piedmont1984
Well pay attention and try to keep up with me since you didn’t get it the first time around. You made an accusation about preferential treatment. You didn’t ask if there was a reason. Were you the last one in line of 15 or 30 departures over a certain fix, hence your long delay? And where was WN going? Did WN have particular issues on one or both of those flights needing an expedited departure (like all airlines request and are granted when necessary). We get a lot of special requests ourselves. Apparently you didn’t read or more likely comprehend some or most of my first post. No you just made an accusation to the Controller and about the PHL facility that you could not substantiate and expected professional treatment in response and on top of that on an admittedly bad night. I can see by your attitude that you would have responded in the same fashion or worse had the Controller initiated a similar discussion. Thank you for one thing. You certainly protect my job and keep me busy repairing relationships between US Airways and the non US Airways people that we rely on for our airline network reliability. You don’t have a clue as to what the issues are and likely have spent very little of your career visiting OCC, ATC facilities etc to find out.
[/quote]
No - I am not the same pilot. But from the sound of your tone, you must be the jerk who lets WN get away with their nonsense. So $%&* you and the horse you rode in on.
[/endquote]
I remember the effects of my first beer youngster and I also remember you were the south end of the northbound horse I was riding on.
And since you elaborated further on the issue you brought up It is still quite possible that this, as you call it "little arrangement" was still something that was planned for extenuating circumstances and the Controller did not go into details about it. You want answers to something ask the right person or persons to find out the answers and not the busy Controller who doesn't have time get into a big discussion with you. There are Supervisors and Traffic Management personnel there that can look into your allegations. Many allegations that I am asked to look into when both sides of the issues are examined are not exactly as they appear or as reported when the tapes are played back. Any finally don't think for a minute that our pilots or the pilots of other airlines are squeaky clean. Reporting Nil braking action when landing just before the competitor’s flight. Blocking ramp and taxi areas etc. I have been around too long. You can't BS me.
Well pay attention and try to keep up with me since you didn’t get it the first time around. You made an accusation about preferential treatment. You didn’t ask if there was a reason. Were you the last one in line of 15 or 30 departures over a certain fix, hence your long delay? And where was WN going? Did WN have particular issues on one or both of those flights needing an expedited departure (like all airlines request and are granted when necessary). We get a lot of special requests ourselves. Apparently you didn’t read or more likely comprehend some or most of my first post. No you just made an accusation to the Controller and about the PHL facility that you could not substantiate and expected professional treatment in response and on top of that on an admittedly bad night. I can see by your attitude that you would have responded in the same fashion or worse had the Controller initiated a similar discussion. Thank you for one thing. You certainly protect my job and keep me busy repairing relationships between US Airways and the non US Airways people that we rely on for our airline network reliability. You don’t have a clue as to what the issues are and likely have spent very little of your career visiting OCC, ATC facilities etc to find out.
[/quote]
No - I am not the same pilot. But from the sound of your tone, you must be the jerk who lets WN get away with their nonsense. So $%&* you and the horse you rode in on.
[/endquote]
I remember the effects of my first beer youngster and I also remember you were the south end of the northbound horse I was riding on.
And since you elaborated further on the issue you brought up It is still quite possible that this, as you call it "little arrangement" was still something that was planned for extenuating circumstances and the Controller did not go into details about it. You want answers to something ask the right person or persons to find out the answers and not the busy Controller who doesn't have time get into a big discussion with you. There are Supervisors and Traffic Management personnel there that can look into your allegations. Many allegations that I am asked to look into when both sides of the issues are examined are not exactly as they appear or as reported when the tapes are played back. Any finally don't think for a minute that our pilots or the pilots of other airlines are squeaky clean. Reporting Nil braking action when landing just before the competitor’s flight. Blocking ramp and taxi areas etc. I have been around too long. You can't BS me.
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
OCCATC
Well, you got one thing right, you've been around too long. You are part of the problem.
I asked the controller an honest question, I received a smart alec answer - just like you gave me.
The remainder of your post is laughably wrong. You don't know a damn thing about me or how I conduct myself on the job.
When I speak to fools like you on the radio I usually bite my tongue. Here I don't need to listen to your nonsense.
Well, you got one thing right, you've been around too long. You are part of the problem.
I asked the controller an honest question, I received a smart alec answer - just like you gave me.
The remainder of your post is laughably wrong. You don't know a damn thing about me or how I conduct myself on the job.
When I speak to fools like you on the radio I usually bite my tongue. Here I don't need to listen to your nonsense.
Piedmont 1984
No you didn't ask an honest question. You made an unprofessional accusation and were waiting for an answer. I gave you the answer you deserve. I may be the newbie on this forum but Drama Queens and Keyboard Warriors like you don't bother me. Just so we part on the best of terms here is a numbers trick for you.
If 1984 is your seniority number then reverse that number to find your name on the new seniority list. Don't go in the mangroves with me you ####. Don't talk about how you act in the flight deck. You already proved that with your first post in this thread.
No you didn't ask an honest question. You made an unprofessional accusation and were waiting for an answer. I gave you the answer you deserve. I may be the newbie on this forum but Drama Queens and Keyboard Warriors like you don't bother me. Just so we part on the best of terms here is a numbers trick for you.
If 1984 is your seniority number then reverse that number to find your name on the new seniority list. Don't go in the mangroves with me you ####. Don't talk about how you act in the flight deck. You already proved that with your first post in this thread.
Is my understanding wrong? WN is more likely to depart on time while US is more likely to depart late. WN takes off using their takeoff slot. US is late so is placed in the back of the line. This is my understanding why one sees WN or AA jump the line from US. Also doesn't WN also use the express runway periodically.
But then why not offer favoritism to one who is treating you well with respect.
But then why not offer favoritism to one who is treating you well with respect.
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
Wrong again retard, I did ask an honest question and you replied with a smart a$$ answer. Giving me the answer you think I deserve doesn't cut it your arrogance. Guess you don't like pilots talkin back to you.
Go back to that mangrove swamp you came from.
And BTW s*#t for brains, 1984 isn't my seniority number.
I won't bother responding to anymore of your arrogant and inane posts, AMF.
You seem to forget your earlier post
Again you did not ask an honest question. You made an accusation. Oh yes did you also forget this post
You seem to have a lot of difficulty with others. I feel sorry for those that have to fly with you all day or is your arrogance and condescending attitude only directed toward those outside your group. I suspect so because your piers wouldn't take it from you. I don't dislike pilots, just the few that give them a bad name.
I love you though Drama Queen because you are an easy mark. You should trade in your thick skull for thicker skin.
I'm was just having some fun with you while you kept putting your foot further into your mouth on each post. Come join me in some military or motorcycle forums we need a FNG for a target.Sir,
Depending on where they are going. If either flight is going to an airport where there is a ground delay program in effect they would have a certain slot time that they would have to adhere to or they could swap that slot with another flight of theirs going to that destination airport regardless of where that other flight is departing from.
If either WN or USA was going to high-density airport even WITHOUT a ground delay program in effect they still need a slot time. It is called an APREQ delay. Approval Request. This comes from the overlying ATC Center. E.g. PHL to ATL or PHL to CLT a time to get into the overhead flow evenly spaced in the stream to that airport. That also applies going to a non high-density airport and/or different airports but just getting into the stream on a busy airway.
Imagine you have a heavy bank going to CLT ATL ORD or where ever leaving out of the northeast. There may be 10 flights departing out of the NY metros and New England to one certain airport. Each tower will call the Center for a release time. It is first come first served. You take a 10 minute delay a whole bunch of other flights from the same or other airports will get their wheels up time and you are the last one because all the airways are pretty full and shared.
They put out Mile In Trail restrictions to airports or for airways because if they are feeding ATL from four corner posts onto one runway 20 miles in trail becomes 5 miles in trail on final for ATL.
Most of that line jumping that you see is a result of what departure fix or direction they are initially headed. On occasion that AA flight or whatever was someplace on the field waiting for a takeoff time and he was out of the way until his time was close.
Yes on the WN utilizing runway 17 or 35 more frequently however it is less frequent now with the runway shortened due to construction. USA also used it on select flights depending on the aircraft type and landing weight but right now only the lightest of the B737’s will use it if at all unless the wind is very strong down the runway. Eventually it will be longer after the construction.
That is very interesting. I was in PIT about a year ago and was waiting to pay my food bill at McDonalds of all places. When I asked if I recieved a discount, she asked what airline I worked for, I stated US, could of said HP, she said the same thing, unfortutenly we don't give a discount to US Air employees because the company don't pay there bills!! This was at McDonalds for heaven sake! I also asked how this has to do with US as a company, her reply was ask the city of PIT authority for the airport why they refuse US discounts. How ridiculous is that???
I know in PHX, WN has gotten many special requests at Sky Harbor for taxi, and takeoff for many years now. Just ask the HP pilots. :down:
Piedmont1984
Veteran
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,737
- 897
In the interest of accuracy, above is my original post, addressed to no one in particular and meant to relate a specific incident and shed some light on the subject of WN receiving preferential treatment.
Note, for the benefit of one grammatically challenged poster with a chip on his shoulder, that the conjunction "why" was used. This indicates a question, not an accusation. Why was Southwest being given preferential treatment.
The answer from the controller at the time was unprofessional and inappropriate. It was a smart a$$ response. The unsolicited remark from one arrogant poster here was "you got the answer you deserved" and to "grow up" - another smart a$$ remark.
Sounds like it's ATC that is a little thin skinned when the subject of WN getting favors comes up.
Evidence of ATC using a double standard with respect to Southwest and USAirways is plentiful, particularly when they first began operating out of PHL. Of course, no ATC controller would ever admit that.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Do you guys realize the booty the company shills had to shell out to get good slots in FRA? And, that's just for starters...good slot times in the EU require wining, dining, and 'professional' measures...if you know what I mean.
Later,
Eye
Later,
Eye
Bob,
I agree entirely. The tight leash you mention not only covers gifts/gratuities etc but even extends to stock ownership in airlines and the companies that supply engines, aluminum etc etc.
I’m not really new to this forum I left it years ago for other interests and don’t even remember my old screen name but you and I both know there are a lot of Type A personalities in this forum and throughout the aviation system. You give crap and that is what you get in return. It is only Human Nature. Some give it yet can not take it.
I have been observing and working with Controllers since the 1960’s. Is it a perfect system? No, not by any means but they do a good job. Each facility is very parochial about its own airspace. They do not want holding, which screws things up. They do not want a tarmac littered with airplanes and will fight with adjacent facilities to keep their traffic moving but with safety being the top priority they have to dot all of the I’s and cross every T.
The airlines also share a lot of the blame in what they schedule when and where. In many cases young, inept so-called marketing experts in many cases do not listen to those experienced in the operations end and then they ask “Gee, why are we taking a delay at 8:00 am going to CLT. Well look at the schedule. You gave them the equivalent of 90 aircraft in a 20 to 30 minute window. They can’t land at the same time even in perfect weather conditions so a few are delayed. Kind of like WTF don’t you understand about this. Worse yet when the cloud cover and/or visibility are below what is needed for visual conditions..(very high at many airports because the Pilot needs to be able to see his traffic the before he can provide his own separation) the airport acceptance rate has to be lowered.
On the human nature side of it, if you come to work and mistreat the customers you eventually lose them, and similarly if you start spats with a busy Controller you have become part of the problem. It doesn’t improve your situation or help the customer in the back that is paying your salary.
I agree entirely. The tight leash you mention not only covers gifts/gratuities etc but even extends to stock ownership in airlines and the companies that supply engines, aluminum etc etc.
I’m not really new to this forum I left it years ago for other interests and don’t even remember my old screen name but you and I both know there are a lot of Type A personalities in this forum and throughout the aviation system. You give crap and that is what you get in return. It is only Human Nature. Some give it yet can not take it.
I have been observing and working with Controllers since the 1960’s. Is it a perfect system? No, not by any means but they do a good job. Each facility is very parochial about its own airspace. They do not want holding, which screws things up. They do not want a tarmac littered with airplanes and will fight with adjacent facilities to keep their traffic moving but with safety being the top priority they have to dot all of the I’s and cross every T.
The airlines also share a lot of the blame in what they schedule when and where. In many cases young, inept so-called marketing experts in many cases do not listen to those experienced in the operations end and then they ask “Gee, why are we taking a delay at 8:00 am going to CLT. Well look at the schedule. You gave them the equivalent of 90 aircraft in a 20 to 30 minute window. They can’t land at the same time even in perfect weather conditions so a few are delayed. Kind of like WTF don’t you understand about this. Worse yet when the cloud cover and/or visibility are below what is needed for visual conditions..(very high at many airports because the Pilot needs to be able to see his traffic the before he can provide his own separation) the airport acceptance rate has to be lowered.
On the human nature side of it, if you come to work and mistreat the customers you eventually lose them, and similarly if you start spats with a busy Controller you have become part of the problem. It doesn’t improve your situation or help the customer in the back that is paying your salary.
