A tale of two airlines in irregular ops

[Bear96]

...at least I was right to bring them through EWR....

???

What was so "right" about that?

You just said their flight out of EWR CANCELLED, and they ended up flying out of a DIFFERENT AIRPORT!

 

[Art at ISP]

If they had flown into PHL, they'd still be there......

 

[kao]

Your skepticism of the agent is correct: ATC doesn't cancel flights. The do, however, limit the number of operations per hour and that makes USAirways have to decide which flights to cancel. For obvious economic reasons they'll almost always cancel RJs over mainline flights.

In addition to SWA being a better-run airline overall it must be pointed out that their point-to-point vice hub-and-spoke operation is intrinsically easier to handle when a hub is under pressure.

and when you are smaller you often have the upperhand....I work in a hub ( another carrierS hub)...and our little operation at the time seemed to always get the least atc DELAY....WHILE THIERS WAS DELAYED

 

[SKY HIGH]

The grief and anger would be minimized if they were simply delayed and at least felt that they had lots of company.

sky high states: Refer to TOPIC--------> http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36980


ABCnews.com Video Passengers say ENOUGH




Only stating opinions

 

[JS]

I was flying from BNA to PHL last night. After a few delays to the 330pm flight (2440, operated by PSA), they canceled it outright around 430pm. The following flight at 711pm (3834 operated by Wisconsin) was also canceled.

I was on the WiFi at the time of the cancellation announcement in the gate area and immediately pulled up southwest.com. Not only were their flights operating to PHL (one nonstop and a few one stops), but they were charging a measly $160 WALK UP fare. My canceled US flight was credited back at $219 (leg 2 of a roundtrip). This was a no brainer and I let everyone in the area know that they can grab seat(s) on WN if they hurry. Fortunately, I already secured mine and checked in online in the 5 minutes since the US flight was canceled and the very long line was formed at the desk.
...

But you didn't have an assigned seat on WN. Oh no!

 

[BoeingBoy]

But you didn't have an assigned seat on WN. Oh no!

No, but there's 44 aisle and 44 window seats for the 60 "A" card holders to choose from......

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Now I confused again.

FAA=ATC

Crew Timeouts = US Airways.

Where did SWA get crews to operate their flights? I don't think they carry inflatable Flight Attendents.

Isn't part of planning and scheduling the consideration of irregular ops? We hear how hard it is to get your hours flying reserve so why do we have this disconnect???

USAir should have recalled more than 1,000 pilots and FAs over a year ago. They have been operating on fumes (as far as crew manning goes) for years.

 

[tadjr]

US also had to deal with the main runway closed in PHL yesterday for restriping didnt they? More than just weather affected ATC to take into account. Also, if the flight is running so late that 44 out of 50 people bust conx, does it really make sense to fly into PHL for the 6 people left on the plane, delay the flight the next am, or just canx and reposition the plane for the next am so we're back on time today. Didnt have any crew rest issues in station today so they did something right with the preplanned canx they did last night (repo to PBI instead of the major delay to PHL). It sucks, and the full plane to PHL was a pain to reroute (on top of the other 2 canx), but at least they didnt drag things out then canx like they've done in the past. And why cant PHL do the painting at night during non rush hour? Overtime payout?

 

[PHL]

Mr. PHL I think you need to get your facts in order, at a hub the airline with the dominat carrier will have most of the
cancelled flights and you may check that with the FAA if they will release that info to you.......................If you go to the other hubs for the major airlines Exp... ORD, DFW, ATL you will find the same situation, so in conclusion it seems you
don't not know what you are speaking about.... I for one will bad mouth US anytime they screw up but when it is not their fault then i will speak up..................and you did say the flight was delayed...I rest my case................best wishes
flying southwest....................

Aside from trying to follow your broken sentences....I get the gist.......I think.......WN at BWI....their hub......flights were operating in and out the same day, with the same weather/ATC delays.......WN flights still flew, even with delays.

Yes, I did say the flight was delayed, and I was ok with that because I knew the weather was not cooperative. The main frustration was that USX canceled and WN didn't, all other things being equal. As a customer, I don't care if one person dispatches US Mainline and another dispatches each USX carrier. All I know is I paid "USAirways" to get me there.

And, as Jim pointed out the cancellation rate of US compared to other carriers on this particular day was much, much higher.

 

[madders]

While you're right, especially at a smaller WN "focus" city like PHL, let's look at somewhat matching operations.....

US @ PHL - cancelled 15.3% of mainline departures and 18.4% of mainline arrivals according to flightstats

WN @ BWI - cancelled 2.2% of departures and 8.1% of arrivals

CO @ EWR - cancelled 3.9% of mainline departures and 2.0% of mainline arrivals

Both WN and CO operate more mainline flights at those airports than US does at PHL.

Jim

Hey Jim what is the stats for AA and UA out of ORD or DL out of ATL

 

[PA18]

USAir should have recalled more than 1,000 pilots and FAs over a year ago. They have been operating on fumes (as far as crew manning goes) for years.

Not only that, but many furloughed pilots are either not accepting recall, accepting recall then not showing up for class, or showing up, then walking out of class if they don't like their domicile and equipment assignment.

As a result, the pilot staffing is stretched to the limit, with many more 90+hour monthly lines, and many more 13+hour duty days. (The FAA maximum scheduled duty day is 14 hours. Mainline pilots may be kept on duty up to 15 hours due to irregular operations, and may remain on duty up to the FAA drop-dead maximum of 16 hours, at the pilot's choice. Most pilots will not remain on duty one second over 15 hours, however.)

I am not familiar with the average duty period of WN or the regionals, but this scheduling to the max at mainline causes the operation to implode every time, when weather and/or ATC delays start. It then carries over to the next morning, when crews who arrived late at their overnight have to delay their flights back to the hub in order to get a legal -- but hardly sufficient -- rest period.

Plus, it's August. It's hot. The stress of 95-hour schedules (and that means 95 hours of when the airplane is in motion, not the total time the crew is on duty), 14-hour duty days, and weather and ATC delay issues every single day takes its toll. People get fatigued. And they also feel compelled to use some of their 60 hours of sick time before they lose it -- i.e, give something else back to management -- at the end of the year.

 

[brokenwrench]

DL Cancellation rate for JUL was 0.169 per 100 Departures.

Regards.

 

[Singleflyer]

Art,

The ONE single thing I used to be able to bank on and the primary reason for my loyalty was I KNEW I could count on the staff to get me there if it was remotely possible.

Twice in 5 years I got stuck and that included weather events.

Now I'm not even certain I'll get off the gate and the last few times I had to get out the Gorilla Suit to get reaccomdated to a resonable itinerary.

That is why I left. I could not count on them ANY longer, especially when the computer system "drops" my reservation.

Two weeks ago when NW canceled my flight due to lack of crew. I knew 24 hours in advance, and they re-booked me. I called them up and asked for a different flight Z(which suited me better than the orignal) and they changed it and instantly upgraded me. In the pas US gave that type of service to the elite flyer, but NO more.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hey Jim what is the stats for AA and UA out of ORD or DL out of ATL

Unfortunately, flightstats only has daily data for a 3 day period - day before, current day, and day after (for those checking status of their next day flights). So day before yesterday is gone as far as I know. I didn't pull them up at the time because I was only looking at operations close to PHL - same wx and same ATC issues.

Jim

 

[Hope777]

If they had flown into PHL, they'd still be there......

Art,
FYI, All Three PHL-LAX Non-Stops Operated yesterday. Yes they departed on the average One and a Half hours Late, but they did operate.
Part of the problem here has been touched upon briefly. WN operates and controls ALL their flights as they do all their flying. LCC on the other hand is a mess with numerous airlines operating the flights. One hand DOES NOT talk to the other. Just last week out of EWR, the first three EWR-CLT flights Cancelled. The 5am departure is operated by Mesa,the 650am was operated by US-East and the 8am was operated by US-West. After a bunch of phone calls were made, we got the same response, we didnt know they had cancelled. We have too many airlines flying for US and each of them have numerous problems of their own. To bring back more reliable service, the number of Vendors flying for LCC must be reduced, this can not continue and if it does the numbers are only going to get worse. And as a side note, EWR-IAD on UA is operated by Trans States Airlines.