FA furloughs and STL transfers

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 10:17:53 AM coldplay wrote:
SARS, 9/11, and the economy, the main scapegoats of the majors, instead of mismanagement and egos.
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If you do not think that SARS, 9/11, Iraq war and the economy did not in some way affect all airlines then you''re naive.
SWA and other domestic LCCs may not have been affected too much by SARS since they do not operate flights to HongKong/China.
SW and other LCCs do not operate trans-atlantic flights where the overblown fear the war in Iraq caused a large decrease in passenger traffic.
Richard Reid did not intend to blow up a LCC flight over the corn fields of Iowa. The SWA or Airtran or jetBlue paint on the fuselage is not as much an inviting target to terrorists as say AMERICAN, or UA, or US etc.
Granted mamagement-employee relations have not been perfect, but they''re not the main cause/the only cause of the trouble airlines are in.

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quit blaming those as the reasons, trim the fat, get some real managers who work for a change, and then maybe we''d see some type of profit damn it!
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Trimming the fat - I hope you''re referring to not only cutting more AA management, but also more AA employees. Don''t tell me that you can''t trim employees, because I think you can, there is room to make cuts, there always is.

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The Airline industry is in the state it is because of simple Mismanagement and swell-headed egos of their respective management teams who don''t give a rat''s ass about its employees...well, except for SWA. You want to see real management in action that does the WHOLE company good, then look at SWA and take a cue from how they operate. People first, their people are important, treat them well but i guess that''s just too much to ask from AA because damn it, we''ve got to get those planes out on time! what a freakin'' joke.
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I''ve said this before, if you hate your AA job then go work at SWA or elsewhere. If your airline job is so crummy, then why be a glutten for punishment and not find employment elsewhere? Is it because maybe your current job is still the best out there?

 

[coldplay]

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On 5/28/2003 4:59:15 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:

I''ve said this before, if you hate your AA job then go work at SWA or elsewhere. If your airline job is so crummy, then why be a glutten for punishment and not find employment elsewhere? Is it because maybe your current job is still the best out there?


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Who said anything about hating my AA job? I love my job, it''s just the way it is managed by fools who''ll place the blame on everyone and everything else except themselves that I don''t like about it.
I''ll go on doing my job because I love what I do, all I ask is for someone on top to acknowledge that they''ve made mistakes and are capable of making huge egoistical mistakes and not cover it up by saying "oh have you seen the state of the economy lately?" or "9/11, that''s all we have to say..."
Instead they''ll come up with press releases that gullible people like you placing the blame on the employees who already have given up so much for the company. it''s funny, I come to work and do what management says. I don''t make the decisions but when something goes wrong, it''s my fault?
I want my management team to be leaders, act like leaders, talk like leaders, and show the world how smart they really are. Instead, we get people who don''t give a crap just as long as they get a SeRP fund protecting them in case of bankruptcy and point fingers at everyone else except themselves for the problems they face.

a "glutten" for punishment? since when did working here become a case of having a wheat-free diet?

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 5/28/2003 7:55:01 PM coldplay wrote:
Who said anything about hating my AA job? I love my job, it''s just the way it is managed by fools who''ll place the blame on everyone and everything else except themselves that I don''t like about it.

I''ll go on doing my job because I love what I do, all I ask is for someone on top to acknowledge that they''ve made mistakes and are capable of making huge egoistical mistakes and not cover it up by saying "oh have you seen the state of the economy lately?" or "9/11, that''s all we have to say..."

Instead they''ll come up with press releases that gullible people like you placing the blame on the employees who already have given up so much for the company. it''s funny, I come to work and do what management says. I don''t make the decisions but when something goes wrong, it''s my fault?

I want my management team to be leaders, act like leaders, talk like leaders, and show the world how smart they really are. Instead, we get people who don''t give a crap just as long as they get a SeRP fund protecting them in case of bankruptcy and point fingers at everyone else except themselves for the problems they face.
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It seems to me that many employees, you being one of them, just have an axe to grind with management. Yes, I''ll somewhat agree with you that things at AA are not the best, but not all of it is managements fault. If you believe that then you are the gullible one. Furthermore, you are even more gullible if you chose to remain to work for such a bad company where the management has no clue as to what they are doing.

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a "glutten" for punishment? since when did working here become a case of having a wheat-free diet?
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Sorry, my English is not so very good looking.

 

[Garfield1966]

Seems to me that the main reason SWA and Jet Blue are able to make money has less to do with their managent as it does with the set up of their airline. Both are single aircraft airlines. SWA is a no frils nich airline. They have no international routes. It seems like those who ask why all of us (the national airlines) are not making money and why the others SWA etal are making money are comparing apples and oranges. We can never be like them and I for one would not want too. We can transport our customers all over the world either on us or on one of our partners. SWA and Jet Blue cannot.

Not sure what the answer is but for as big an advantage as they seem to have over us in the current economy, they do not seem to be doing that well either. I do not think their managment is any more competent that that of any other national airline.

As for the take over of TWA. As I recall, most of the articles I remember reading said it was a great deal. We were getting major assets at a fraction of their value. We would be able to nail UA to the wall in ORD and we would come out smelling like a rose. No one could fortell 9/11 and the econmic down fall. Hind sight is 20/20.

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 5/29/2003 12:31:39 AM Garfield1966 wrote:

As for the take over of TWA. As I recall, most of the articles I remember reading said it was a great deal. We were getting major assets at a fraction of their value. We would be able to nail UA to the wall in ORD and we would come out smelling like a rose. No one could fortell 9/11 and the econmic down fall. Hind sight is 20/20.

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People keep seeming to (conveniently) forget that the TWA purchase was BEFORE 9/11. Kind of tough to argue that TWA was the downfall of the airline when that fact is pointed out. But that horse has really been beaten to death.

And FWIW, the words are "Glutton" and "gluten". Can we get a spellcheck installed around here? Please?

TANSTAAFL

 

[xsqueezeme]

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On 5/28/2003 8:22:04 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:

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It seems to me that many employees, you being one of them, just have an axe to grind with management. Yes, I''ll somewhat agree with you that things at AA are not the best, but not all of it is managements fault. If you believe that then you are the gullible one. Furthermore, you are even more gullible if you chose to remain to work for such a bad company where the management has no clue as to what they are doing.


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for what it''s worth I believe that even with an incompetent management group, the employees are what makes one stay on the job because they''re the ones who work with each other and makes the job tolerable. You rarely see the employees working side by side with management, unless it for some type of PR promotion or some bigwig suddenly gets a promotion and decides it''s time to mingle with the peasants, kind of a one day walk in my shoes type of thing, just so the employees would say "wow, what a great manager!".

For someone to say "if you hate it so much, quit" is always the type of remark someone with a limited idea of how the employees interact with each other. Of course there''s always going to be that division between management and employees. Different jobs, different personalities. You may hate management but still love the job because of the people you work with. People may always think they''re smarter than their bosses because they''re the ones doing the actual job while the bosses theorize on how to make the job effective. A manager could say, for example, we need to get that plane off the gate 2 minutes before ETD or else. employee says, yeah great idea but have you thought about how we''re going to do that everytime when there''s a chance it may be snowing, or raining, or the jetbridge breaks down, or we a have a pax running from a nearby gate because the inbound flight was 5 minutes late arriving, etc. Manager says "I don''t care, just do it."
there lies the conflict and how an employee could suddenly say "what an idiot, he has no clue as to how things work around here" and management says "they have to change how things work over there and they don''t want to try.". vicious cycle.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 5/28/2003 10:17:53 AM coldplay wrote:

the bottomline is they''re still PROFITABLE while facing the SAME problem the majors are facing. If that does not tell you something about their management team then what other proof do you need?

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Sure, it is a reflection of their management. It is also a reflection of their employees. Go read this week''s PlaneBusiness for more, but the fact is that their unions work with management, as opposed to against management. That has more to do with WN''s success than anything that management can do.

With the exception of WN, unions who work with management are branded as weak. Look at the postings here for the past two months -- when John Ward and Jim Little actually worked with the company to find a solution, the membership started screaming for a recall.

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On 5/28/2003 10:17:53 AM coldplay wrote:

SARS, 9/11, and the economy, the main scapegoats of the majors, instead of mismanagement and egos. quit blaming those as the reasons, trim the fat, get some real managers who work for a change, and then maybe we''d see some type of profit damn it!

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And what are the main scapegoats of the unions? Buying TWA, management greed, and management incompetency. There are two parties involved here, and neither one is without fault or their own scapegoats.

Again, from this week''s PlaneBusiness, there''s a lot of discussion over how much more productive it is for management and labor to work together to fix the problem. AA has a some positive momentum there, and if that can continue, perhaps we''d see some type of profit even sooner.

Compare it to government. Just think how much more effective government would be without party politics. Instead, the Democrats blame the Republicans, the Republicans blame the Democrats, and somehow the Libertarians still find people to run in elections they have no hope of ever winning.

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On 5/28/2003 10:17:53 AM coldplay wrote:

You protect Management so much because you''re one of them, you have no clue about what goes on in the real world, and base things on numbers and statistics.

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No, I just have a far different view of things because I deal with the airline as a whole daily as part of my job. I may use statistics to argue a point, but that doesn''t mean I''m some wet behind the ears MBA recruit -- I started out on the front line at ORD, JFK, and DFW before moving over to the dark side, and have followed the industry for the past 17 years. I might be in management, but that doesn''t automatically make me stupid.