FA furloughs and STL transfers

[L1011Ret]

TWAnr pretty much answers the question. However, the language is pretty clear that TWA F/As may use their occupational seniority at STL. That is being denied them. AA F/As way junior to them will take their places. It would appear that this is a violation of the integration agreement in that TWA F/As are not being allowed to exercise their occupational seniority at STL. Most people interpreted the fence around STL and the requirements that STL not grow by a certain percentage greater than ORD & DFW as their own Domicile with protection from without. Apparantly this is a new interpretation of the contract. I believe Jane Allen once said no AA F/As could transfer into STL. Remember too that Jane Allen denied Overage Leaves system wide in previous TWA F/A furloughs claiming the overage existed only in STL. Now the overages have spread to the AA native F/As and overages are offered system wide to those not being furloughed. But every nAAtive base is not in overage. This appears as quite inconsistent. This is being added to the legal charges in the NY DFR case.

 

If that is the case I hope the foks at STL will see their jobs back. If that is what was negotiated and not re negotiated than it is not fair

 

[TWAnr]

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On 5/14/2003 754 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

I''m NOT trying to stir up a "stink" here on ALL members of APFA(you guys know I''m a big fan),
But plz. refresh "ol'' black bears" memory.

1. How was LLC''s occ seniority placed(on the "whole" list), in STL ??

2. How was LLC''s occ seniority placed(on the "whole" list, outside of STL ?

I knew the answer to my questions "sometime" back, but I truly don''t remember.

Thanx,
NH/BB''s

----------------​

From the APFA website:






TWA LLC SENIORITY INTEGRATON AGREEMENT HIGHLIGHTS
[*]
TWA LLC Flight Attendants who qualify to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority at STL or ISL and who remain based at St. Louis will maintain their TWA LLC occupational (bidding) seniority date at STL or ISL for bidding purposes.

TWA LLC Flight Attendants may not transfer into an American Airlines flight attendant base until all furloughed American Airlines Flight Attendants have been recalled.

TWA LLC Flight Attendants who qualify to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority at STL or ISL and who transfer into an American Airlines flight attendant base (provided no American Airlines flight attendants are still on furlough) will use their American occupational seniority date (either April 10, 2001 or December 17, 2001, depending on their circumstances as described above) for occupational (bidding) purposes at such base.

TWA LLC Flight Attendants who qualify to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority at STL or ISL and who transfer into an American Airlines flight attendant base (provided there are no American flight attendants still on furlough) and return to STL or ISL within two years, can continue to use their TWA LLC occupational seniority if they then remain at STL or ISL. However, this can only be done one time. They will lose any right to continue to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority if they transfer into an American crew base following their initial return to STL/ISL or if they remain at an American crew base for more than two years after the first transfer out of STL or ISL.

During the continued existence of TWA LLC, TWA LLC flight attendants who are eligible to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority at STL or ISL and who are based at STL will be offered openings at ISL before any American Airlines Flight Attendants. Thereafter, openings at ISL will be offered to American Airlines flight attendants. Following transfer to STL or ISL, American Airlines flight attendants will use their American Airlines occupational (bidding) seniority at such bases.


A. An AA flight attendant may transfer/proffer to fill a vacancy in and fly trips assigned to a St. Louis domicile in accordance with the provisions for transfer/proffer provided in the CBA in the event the opening has been offered for bidding by TWA-LLC flight attendants based at St. Louis Domestic who meet the criteria set forth in paragraph VI. of this Agreement and a vacancy remains after honoring the bids properly submitted by such TWA-LLC flight attendants. An AA flight attendant who transfers to a St. Louis base will be able to use her/his AA occupational seniority at such base for all purposes for which occupational seniority is applicable under the CBA.

 

[coldplay]

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On 5/15/2003 11:53:15 AM L1011Ret wrote:

I believe Jane Allen once said no AA F/As could transfer into STL.

----------------​

uh, yeah! I also believed Carty once said he would not ask for employee concessions, or that the unions knew about the executive pension/SERP fund, or that he was sorry, or that everything was fixed by the time he got to the gate at DFW for his trip to PVR so he had no knowledge of anyone being bumped off the flight, or that he would treat every TWA employee "fair and equitable", etc.

Jane also once said that it is only a rumor that they have leased Mercedes Benzes, company paid membership in country clubs, special parking priviledges at airports for management, or that she has never had sexual relations with that woman (oh wait, that was Clinton!)....

when are you guys ever going to see that when their lips move it''s only because they''re lying??

 

[MiAAmi]

----------------
You can say DRAMA QUEEN all you want but I would sure keep that resume handy. You too will need it soon.

----------------

Thats pretty general advice. That could be said for anyone at any company in any industry. Why all the doom and gloom? AA has not even declared BK yet. If eventually AA does declare BK, they will still operate. I agree these are not the best of times at AA but I believe that AA will be around for quite some time yet. More than the year from now that you predicted in your earlier post.

 

Drama Queen hit the nail on the head. Flyboy4u or shall I say exflyboy4u.. If you are out of the industry or out of a job at AA and have moved on than why do you continue to post on a message board such as this one. You should probably concentrate on your new job. If you do not have one already I wish you the best of luck finding one, and hope you get recalled soon if there are any recalls.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

The "special" occ date only relates to bidding within the STL/ISL base.

Furloughs are another story altogether. It doesn''t matter what base you''re at if your below the cutoff...

 

[MiAAmi]

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On 5/15/2003 11:36:31 AM TWAnr wrote:



----------------​

From the APFA website:






TWA LLC SENIORITY INTEGRATON AGREEMENT HIGHLIGHTS

TWA LLC Flight Attendants who qualify to use their special TWA LLC occupational seniority at STL or ISL and who remain based at St. Louis will maintain their TWA LLC occupational (bidding) seniority date at STL or ISL for bidding purposes.
----------------

Note that it clearly states for bidding purposes. Occ seniority does not keep LLC''ers from being effected by reduction in force.

 

[coldplay]

----------------
On 5/15/2003 1:57:26 PM MiAAmi wrote:
----------------​

Occ seniority does not keep LLC''ers from being effected by reduction in force.


----------------

FYI:
proper use of the words AFFECT & EFFECT :

AFFECT:
af·fect1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-fkt)
tr.v. af·fect·ed, af·fect·ing, af·fects
To have an influence on or effect a change in: Inflation affects the buying power of the dollar.
To act on the emotions of; touch or move.
To attack or infect, as a disease: Rheumatic fever can affect the heart.

EFFECT:

ef·fect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-fkt)
n.
Something brought about by a cause or agent; a result.
The power to produce an outcome or achieve a result; influence: The drug had an immediate effect on the pain. The government''s action had no effect on the trade imbalance.
A scientific law, hypothesis, or phenomenon: the photovoltaic effect.
Advantage; avail: used her words to great effect in influencing the jury.
The condition of being in full force or execution: a new regulation that goes into effect tomorrow.

Something that produces a specific impression or supports a general design or intention: The lighting effects emphasized the harsh atmosphere of the drama.
A particular impression: large windows that gave an effect of spaciousness.
Production of a desired impression: spent lavishly on dinner just for effect.
The basic or general meaning; import: He said he was greatly worried, or words to that effect.
effects Movable belongings; goods.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

it''s just starting to get real ANNOYING to see all you well-versed individuals in here continually misuse the words.

Hence proper sentence would be :

Occ seniority does not keep LLC''ers from being AFFECTED by reduction in force.

thank you very much.

 

[coldplay]

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On 5/15/2003 3:13:58 PM MiAAmi wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for not watching my use of words more closely. (I''m being sincere in case this sounds sarcastic)

----------------​

no offense taken. It usually makes a powerful statement when one can use the proper words to express themselves. Making a grammatical mistake Once or twice is okay, I may think it''s a typo, but when I see others replying to a post and using the same words over and over, mixing them up, especially words like effect-affect or their-they''re or wear-were, it makes me wonder where the poster took his grammar and spelling lessons from.

I''m not trying to sound like some Grammar know-it-all. It''s really irritating to see things like that, especially since we live in country where we speak, read, write and consider English as the primary language.

 

[Senor Pelon]

The seniority of the former TWA F/A''s should have never been combined with the nAAtives until the fence came down in STL. What has been done to them to totally ROTTEN and dirty by the same union that is supposed to represent them. I do not consider the APFA a labor union nor will they ever have my support.

 

[MiAAmi]

Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for not watching my use of words more closely. (I''m being sincere in case this sounds sarcastic)

 

[MiAAmi]

Well thats real interesting because the courts do consider APFA a union. The courts also agreed with APFA during the Reno merger and it is my humble opinion that they will agree with us once again. Please forgive me in advance for continuing this seniority thread. My concerns are for all our fellow f/a''s that continue to be on furlough and the ones that will see fuloughs come JUL 01. Good luck to all and hopefully we will see everyone back sooner than later.

 

[flydcoop]

 

[bicaal]

I would like to know where in the history of APFA/AA has the union allowed a f/a transfer to another company. It is the same as moving AA flight attendants laterally to fly for Eagle. TWAllc is a separately held company. There is a different operating certificate. Different FAA requirements. Where is the outrage from the AA flight attendants and their union over being forced into another company?