F/a's Receive Company Counterproposal

[BoeingBoy]

Rico,

Thanks for clarifying that for me. All is absolutely clear now.

Given your sentiments, you will surely not be offended when the IAM and related, CWA, or AFA don't wish to endure even more long term cuts (remember, these proposals go thru 2010 and 2011) just so you can recoup your relatively short-term pain. After all, each member of those groups is just as entitled as you to consider only what is best for them, even if it hurts you or is "unreasonable" to you.

Jim

ps - since you've given "only" 40%, is it ok for me to insist that the next concessions be imposed on you since I've had a 46% cut in pay, an 87% cut in retirement, 50% cut in vacation value, plus all those work rule changes?

 

[diogenes]

Hey, USA320,

Since ALPA has already cut a deal, and the company, according to you, is going to be able to manuever at will, via the judge, against the uppity unions, why are you wasting bandwidth trying to convince us of anything?

If the company is going to b%$#hslap the malcontents (and I suspect you're keen for that), why not sit back and let it happen?

Or, perhaps the outcome is not a lead pipe cinch, so you're "keepin' the skeer up."

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Sadly, I think that it isn't either:

it's a lead pipe cinch OR
he's 'keeping the skeer up.


I think it's likely to be both. He just can't leave it alone.

 

[700UW]

And the MAINLINE employees are the ones who took concessions to pay for the Brazilian Barbie jet he flies.

He seems to forget that.

And there are many mechanics who took a 50% paycut as they have been forced back to utility.

You will get no sympathy from the IAM M&R.

 

[USA320Pilot]

This topic was created to discuss the AFA contract proposal(s) versus other union issues. Could we return it to the AFA situation? Thanks.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Rico]

I realize who my audience very well, and for me to be fuzzy about my motives is a sure way to lose credibility. I understand quite well the situation CSA's endure, I married one. I know damn well what the Mechanic's deal with, as my broither is one at another Legacy. So why sugarcaot things instead of talking straight...?

Fact is, that people are reacting with emotion rather than reason. Lashing out at things from a sense of fustration, rather than dealing with the situation they find themselves in. While you are still employed, you might think you have that luxury, yet when you are unemployed, trust me that reality has a much stronger effect on you.

Like I said, once this company closes down, there will be no more "deals" to be made, no turning back, so consider your otons with a seriopus and realistic view.

I am just trying to give my perspective, having been through a BK and liquidation at another airline. Fault me for that experience having coloring my opinions? Well, that still does not change the reality that I have been through what many of you have not. I have collected unemployment, looked for a job, moved everything I had just to "start over"...

Take my word for it, it is better to go from something old to something new, than it is to try and go from nothing to something new.

ps - since you've given "only" 40%, is it ok for me to insist that the next concessions be imposed on you since I've had a 46% cut in pay, an 87% cut in retirement, 50% cut in vacation value, plus all those work rule changes?

I have no retirement, I work under rules that pale in comparison to what even ALG had, I have 8 days of vacation instead of the three weeks I was due, and I came from making far less than what you did, down to far less than you do now. I will be more than glad to trade jobs and paychecks with you tomorrow, as would the many guys I fly with, that used to share the very same cockpits with you Jim...

Profit sharing will go to you, it will not go to any of the MDA pilots, have something to say about that...? Guess not eh? So enough with your version of "holier than thou" please...



Point is, that I have made a sacrifice to make a future, and I will fight for this company to survive and succeed. Anyone that is here should do the same or leave, that is the only real choice each one of us has. You might not like your situation, but it is the economic reality that all jobs face nowadays, not just this little bubble so many of you live in called "US Airways".

If you think this situation is exclusive to us alone, then you have not noticed the other legacy carriers, nor have you noticed the situation in many other industries as they outsource work, cut health plans, and layoff thousands.

The "Pity Party" is getting old, I "feel" bad too, but I am trained to deal with a situation, and not just sit there and complain. MDA/Mainline Express have made their cuts, ALPA and the TWU units have made their cuts too, it is time to finsih this process and move forward.

Time is running out.

 

[700UW]

The point is Rico, you made that choice voluntarily and did not have gun held to your head by Dr Bronner or Dave Siegel.

 

[N628AU]

628 you are just a union hater.

[post="197872"][/post]​

Maybe I sould now go run to the mods about this uncalled for ad hominem attack and request some cornfield time for you as you do everyone else.

This quote is telling of your inability to have a thoughful discussion of the issues. When there is nothing left to say in your defense, you proceed to attack someone who's views may differ from yours.

You say I am a union hater because I believe:

(1) I should be able to advance on my own merits.

(2) My own abilities, and not simply a DOH hire number, should reflect my compensation and worth within the marketplace.

(3) I know what is best for me, and do not require big brother to watch over me.

(4) The door that brings me into an employer swings both ways, I can leave just as easily as I came in.

(5) The bottom line of a business is profitability, and not benevolence.

(6) I can spend my own money more wisely than letting the government dictate what is best.

(7) Anyone who sacrifices his own personal liberty to someone else does not deserve liberty.

(8) The AFL-CIO is not truthful in giving "dues objectors" the true costs that are germane to the contract, and by giving away any union monies to politcal causes flies in the face of the intent of the founding fathers of our nation.

(9) Everyone should have an inalienable right to join a union or not through their own free will, not by force of "closed shop" regulations.


Call me a union hater if you wish, but I would much rather be in the mold of Washington, Jefferson, or Franklin than Norma Rae any day of the week.

 

[Rico]

And the MAINLINE employees are the ones who took concessions to pay for the Brazilian Barbie jet he flies.

He seems to forget that.

[post="197983"][/post]​

And you seem to forget that MDA was set up as a place for Furloughed Mainline pilots, Flight Attendants, AND Mechanics to take employment if they so choose.

It was set up for them, not me.

And they have made far greater concessions than you, or your IAM M&R, and for that matter me.

So, enough already with making it sound like you gave in my behalf. MDA was set up by, and for the mainline union membership first and foremost.

And your hypocritical statements about what "others" gave, while you 700UW have maintained your position, and all but a few thousand a year in salary pales to what those who returned to what YOUR union gave them. You want to go to the IAm guys at MDA and tell them that you yourself "payed for their jobs", Please do, I would love to watch that...

You have a complaint, tell it to those you used to work with now working at MDA, Mainline Express, or still unemployed. See how far your high horse will carry you then.

 

[700UW]

Franklin as in Roosevelt?

Lets see what FDR said about unions:

It is one of the characteristics of a free and democratic nation that is have free and independent labor unions

 

[700UW]

A few?

I was in a higher classification, I took over a $10,000 a year paycut, that is a lot more then a few.

Go ask the laid-off stock clerks, or utility who were not affored the same as your J4J at Mesa or MDA. The company chose to farm it out intead of the promise that Siegel made " MDA will have job for ALL our Furloghees."

The over $2.4 billion in concessions since 9/02 paid for the RJs and was the driving force why US got out of Chapter 11 the first time.

I would not expect you to know that since you were not a Mainline employee.

Go ask the 20,000 plus laid-off Mainline Employees how MDA has not offered or given them a job.

A shame that an Auto Mechanic makes more then a AMT fixing your E-170.

 

[N628AU]

That would be Founding Father Benjamin Franklin.

Speaking of FDR, what he said is true. There should be a free and independent process when it comes to union membership. Maybe the AFL-CIO and IAM leadership should crack open the dictionary and see what it means to be free and independent. Accretion without a vote and closed shop rules are the opposite of that.

Could it be that they refuse to let go of this type of activity because of the constant rate of decline of union membership and the fact that most would not join if not forced to?

 

[Rico]

Seriously, talk to those E-170 mechanics, and see what they think of your 10.000$ less a year. I would love to watch you do that.

Oh, and BTW, the BS notion that the wholly owneds are not as much as, and in the same boat as the remainder of US Airways Group just does not hold water.

So enough already with the finger pointing, has nothing to do with, nor will it chance the reality that the company and you yourself face.

#### at me all you want, that fact will not change.

Time is running out

 

[700UW]

Closed shop rules is a negotiated item. And is it fair in an open shop that a union has to represent the non-members without them paying what is germane to the contract?

From Thomas Jefferson:

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Rico,

Rather than taking the time or space to go point by point, let me just say you're right - it all is about what's best for you. It's just a shame that everyone else can't understand how much you've sacrificed and just do whatever it takes for you to achieve what you so rightfully deserve....

As you said, though, this is life. Everyone gets to do what they perceive to be in their best interests. Whether you perceive it to be in their best interests or not, whether it's in your best interests or not.

Jim