New Open Replacement (AVBL) 2000-2999

[TWskyliner]

I just figured out why Nor'Easta and skymess want me to shut up and just take it with line 2000 cr*p. They are junior enough that if those f/as that will be stuck with this say, "Enough, I quit," they will be the ones on perpetual reserve.

Well, get ready. As I said, I suspect that the Law of Unintended Consequences will kick in after this summer, and some people are going to find themselves back on reserve despite the APFA's "solution."

But, I'm tired of this topic. I agree. All you 8-15 year people are totally right, and I am totally wrong. That's what seniority gets you--other than the ability to whine about how good it was in the old days--the right to be right all the time, especially when telling a junior f/a that they don't know what they are talking about. "I had to put up with being treated like a red-headed stepchild; therefore, so do you."

As I told the senior mama who thought I should have to pay service charges because she did, "Yeah, well. We used to run this route with a wagon train, too. But, you know, times change."

You're too funny Jim. It would have been fun to fly with you.

 

[jimntx]

You're too funny Jim. It would have been fun to fly with you.

No, I'm not funny. I'm bitter. Haven't you been paying attention to what the expert has been saying? Maybe one day he/she will grow up enough to tell the difference between anger and bitterness. You can't be bitter about a new event, no matter how bad. Bitterness requires time, repetition of the event, and powerlessness to change the situation. The 2000 series is new, it hasn't happened yet (much less been repeated), and of the things I am, powerless to change my situation is not one of them.

 

[Skymess]

No, I'm not funny. I'm bitter. Haven't you been paying attention to what the expert has been saying? Maybe one day he/she will grow up enough to tell the difference between anger and bitterness. You can't be bitter about a new event, no matter how bad. Bitterness requires time, repetition of the event, and powerlessness to change the situation. The 2000 series is new, it hasn't happened yet (much less been repeated), and of the things I am, powerless to change my situation is not one of them.

I've been paying attention to the fact that you like to complain a lot but you lack any proactive approach to the problem at hand.

Once again, what would you have done differently to keep the reserve list lower? Or would you simply have told the majority of the membership that the company plan to raise reserve was acceptable?

 

[jimntx]

I've been paying attention to the fact that you like to complain a lot but you lack any proactive approach to the problem at hand.

Once again, what would you have done differently to keep the reserve list lower? Or would you simply have told the majority of the membership that the company plan to raise reserve was acceptable?

Reserve lists going up doesn't bother me in the least. I won't live long enough to clear reserves--even in St. Louis. Reserve is part of the package. And, the need for reserves varies from month to month and year to year. Anyone who thinks that they have a "right" to be totally off reserve forever is mistaken. It's always a possible part of the package. At the US Airways base in PIT, at one point they had people with up to 29 years on straight reserve because everyone below them had been furloughed.

Actually, I'm surprised that there hasn't been an uproar at DFW and ORD that reserve goes to 17 years there and only goes to about 8 years at SLT. Another rank unfairness that I'm sure THB and company can find a "solution" for.

And, as I tried to make clear to you and Nor'Easta and you both refuse to see. I'm not complaining. I'm mad. Not for me. I'm just senior enough among the junior people at SLT, that I probably don't have to worry about the 2000 series with the possible exception of August when most of the people below me will be on reserve next. But there are people junior to me for whom this "solution" will be a great hardship. If they quit, I'll sink to the 2000 series, and since I don't have to work, I may re-think the glamor of this job myself. Then if I quit, people like you and Nor'Easta will have to be on perpetual reserve (and that's what this is). You should care about what's being done to people junior to you. They are why you are a line holder and without them, you won't be. Or, Horrors! The company will be forced to recall those evil former TW flight attendants.

I'm mad as a matter of principle. Doesn't it seem just a little ironic to you that you and Nor'Easta claim to be union people, but you have this "your-junior-That's-the- way-it's-always-been-Just-live-with-it" attitude? The entire union movement was started by people who were not willing to accept work conditions as they were and "had always been."

 

[Nor'Easta]

jimntx,

Didnt you say in a post that AA is your 5th or 6th career? Why not find a 6th or 7th? If you have all the answers; Then run for APFA President in 2008! Until then, quit the b**ching!

 

[jimntx]

Like I would take advice from you. 😛 And, it's a public forum, if you don't like what I post, don't read it. There's a lovely ignore feature on this forum. Use it and as far as you are concerned I will never post again.

But, then anyone who dares to disagree with you is a malcontent. And, you obviously enjoy getting your panties in a wad when people disagree with you.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Like I would take advice from you. 😛 And, it's a public forum, if you don't like what I post, don't read it. There's a lovely ignore feature on this forum. Use it and as far as you are concerned I will never post again.

But, then anyone who dares to disagree with you is a malcontent. And, you obviously enjoy getting your panties in a wad when people disagree with you.

I don't care if people disagree with me or not. The point is, that you just complain until its your way or the highway!

No need to use an ignore feature with you. I like watching you b**ch and complain. You act like a woman during that special time of the month. 😉

 

[FA Mikey]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='377313' date='May 3 2006, 05:31 AM']You act like a woman during that special time of the month. 😉[/quote]
Class statement. Was it your plan to belittle or trash more than 1/2 or the world population?

 

[Skymess]

Reserve lists going up doesn't bother me in the least. I won't live long enough to clear reserves--even in St. Louis. Reserve is part of the package. And, the need for reserves varies from month to month and year to year. Anyone who thinks that they have a "right" to be totally off reserve forever is mistaken. It's always a possible part of the package. At the US Airways base in PIT, at one point they had people with up to 29 years on straight reserve because everyone below them had been furloughed.

Actually, I'm surprised that there hasn't been an uproar at DFW and ORD that reserve goes to 17 years there and only goes to about 8 years at SLT. Another rank unfairness that I'm sure THB and company can find a "solution" for.

And, as I tried to make clear to you and Nor'Easta and you both refuse to see. I'm not complaining. I'm mad. Not for me. I'm just senior enough among the junior people at SLT, that I probably don't have to worry about the 2000 series with the possible exception of August when most of the people below me will be on reserve next. But there are people junior to me for whom this "solution" will be a great hardship. If they quit, I'll sink to the 2000 series, and since I don't have to work, I may re-think the glamor of this job myself. Then if I quit, people like you and Nor'Easta will have to be on perpetual reserve (and that's what this is). You should care about what's being done to people junior to you. They are why you are a line holder and without them, you won't be. Or, Horrors! The company will be forced to recall those evil former TW flight attendants.

I'm mad as a matter of principle. Doesn't it seem just a little ironic to you that you and Nor'Easta claim to be union people, but you have this "your-junior-That's-the- way-it's-always-been-Just-live-with-it" attitude? The entire union movement was started by people who were not willing to accept work conditions as they were and "had always been."

Jim,

I am not for trashing the junior population to benefit me because I fully realize that if decisions effect all of us somewhere down the line.

I don't think the 2000 avbl is the most ideal situation but I find it better than more reserves.

The thing that scares me about the senior reserve lists is that somewhere down the road I anticipate APFA having another "do you want straight reserve or 1 on 1 off until you can hold off reserve" vote and that everyone will vote for it.

I do not believe in having things remain how they are because they have always been that way. What I do believe is that regardless of how many changes you make there will still be the less desirable routes being flown by the most junior, and the least desirable paychecks will be cashed by the most junior.

Let's come back to the issue at hand. I think that given the circumstances, APFA came up with an alternative that MIGHT be better than reserve. The alternative might stink but remember that it is only a test. At least they didn't make it a permanant letter of agreement.

I would also not be opposed to a call back. I don't care if ex TWA FAs were online. I would welcome all call backs and FAs on the line.

As for seniority in DFW vs. STL. STL is a smaller base and it was a less desirable base for most senior people to transfer to. The reason the reserve lists are so "senior" is because we have not hired anyone for a few years. If the lists were 22 years at DFW when we first furloughed they are going to be 29 years now because we haven't hired.
It will keep climbing until we hire again.

 

[jimntx]

Jim,
I do not believe in having things remain how they are because they have always been that way. What I do believe is that regardless of how many changes you make there will still be the less desirable routes being flown by the most junior, and the least desirable paychecks will be cashed by the most junior.

And, I have no problem with flying those "less desirable" routes (though, in my situation, ANY line is better than no line, and in some months I can hold a really nice line) or the lesser paycheck. I have a sufficient income from my investments. That's what I meant by the 2000 situation does not affect me directly. However, I have a lot of friends that may not be able to afford this glamorous career with this new thing. The way they can afford reserve month is flying high time on the other 3 months. The 2000 series people will not have this opportunity.

You all keep posting, "Well, it's only going to affect about 200 people systemwide." Well, if that is half of AVBL lines, then doing away with AVBL would have put only 400 more people on reserve systemwide. What's the big deal? These are people who are, at best, the most junior people on backup reserve during those months. So, for the summer months, a few of them would slip back to reserve instead of backup. This would affect maybe 50 people at DFW or ORD, less at the other bases. Some of them were already having to serve reserve once a year in NOV or DEC. So, now they would serve reserve two times a year. Oh, the horror! How unfair!

As far as being on reserve, when I was at DFW, I looked forward to reserve months because I got trips on reserve that I would NEVER hold on a line month--24 hour NYC layovers, 3-day trips with 2 legs a day. (Ah, the good old days back in 2000. ) I still don't mind reserve, because for me it's part of the package, and always will be. But for 3 months per year per the contract. This is nothing more than THB and company finding a way to trash another contract provision, and put the most junior people on straight reserve without having to call it that or hold a vote on it.

For those of you who don't seem to care that every time they turn around the current APFA officers and BOD are circumventing the contract, as well as our own by-laws and Constitution, I hope you are not surprised when whole parts of the contract are declared null and void by some court. In labor law there is a principle called "practice of the shop." If the union allows or abets the company in violating the CBA, then the violation has the force of law and the contractual wording is null and void.

But, then I'm only a junior flight attendant. I should just pay my dues and keep my mouth shut. I will fly for AA, at most, 5.5 more years (until I get my 10 years and lifetime travel benefits). A number of you are going to have to live with the actions of the current APFA administration for a long time. Enjoy!

The Great Jimoni will now make a prediction...

At the end of this "experiment" in September, regardless of any input from the people who get stuck with the 2000 series lines, the company and its pet union, APFA, will declare the experiment a smashing success, and it will be made permanent and year-round. No side letter will have to be signed because AVBL, per se, is not contractual, and since it will not be called reserve it will not be a violation of the contract.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Class statement. Was it your plan to belittle or trash more than 1/2 or the world population?

No, because I am part of that 1/2! 😉

 

[umpieumkn]

I am not for trashing the junior population to benefit me because I fully realize that if decisions effect all of us somewhere down the line.


yes, it will affect all of us both directly and indirectly. Good example of directly; how many times have you heard this? "I forgot to bid or I missbid this month and I got availabilty. I haven't done availabilty in years. I don't even know how"!

On my last trip I came across two FA's who didn't even know about these lines...didn't even know what I was talking about. One of them "kind of heard something about it". Well, it's really going to be comical when the remark changes to; "I forgot to bid/missbid and got this 2025 line...what the heck is that?"

And there won't be much a bidding service can do for you when you get one of these prized lines. You'll be on your own....unless you have a service that will plot for you each morning before and call you to let you know what you'll be doing the next day.

So getting a 3000 line by mistake will be one thing, but getting one of the 2000 lines by mistake...mmm mmm mmm. I guess they should have been paying attention...oh that's right...it didn't affect them.

I'm not disputing or arguing about anything you said...because I know you agree. I used your remark above to make this point.

 

[FA Mikey]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='377461' date='May 3 2006, 10:55 PM']No, because I am part of that 1/2! 😉[/quote]
Oh yea that makes it OK then.

 

[nbmcg01]

Oh yea that makes it OK then.

Now don't yo all go worrying your heads about straight reserve. That won't happen until the APFA can insure the former TWA f/as are going to be recalled. Then you'll see some quick action to change the reserve system so that they will be on reserve for the remainder of what is left of their careers. It would be funny if it wasn't so true.

 

[FA Mikey]

Now don't yo all go worrying your heads about straight reserve. That won't happen until the APFA can insure the former TWA f/as are going to be recalled. Then you'll see some quick action to change the reserve system so that they will be on reserve for the remainder of what is left of their careers. It would be funny if it wasn't so true.

For that to work They would need exTWA f/a's at every DOM and INTL base and enough to cover them. Just don't see that ever happening.

I don't see straight reserve happening either. It would likely be enough to pull me off. I am just be against it. Making anyone go through that waiting for a call living by the next ring of the phone for 12 months straight is way to much to ask of anyone. Complaining because you have to do it 3 times a year, Ohh boo hoo. So tired of 12-18 years f/a who believe they are superior to reserve and shouldn't have to do it anymore. The proverbial I am too good for it, and my stuff don't stink complex.