F/A contract

[galley princess]

"First, Bravo to us all. US f/as saw through a concession ridden shuffling of nonsense and rejected it for what it was.

However, now the devil details are our own.

I have tried to analyze what is necessary for a fair agreement. These are just some ideas:

Remove PBS as a defacto part of any contract.
Remove pilot separation as part of any new contract.
Remove CSD program as part of any new contract.
Remove any discussion of elimination of rest seats on International flights.

Retain EAST bidding system and bidsheet.
Retain / improve scope in discernable, clear and unfettered English.


So then what?

Well, after discussing it with some reserves, contrary to what I had thought, shifts are a bad idea. US is a commuting airline. Period. Amen. Reserve has to be a system that lets these people work and go home. Shifts just prolong the agony and would be untenable to commuting reserves. Also, every contract has a number, IMHO, reserves don't want to pay the increased cost for a new system that doesn't help them. they'd rather have another day off.

Just an idea:
Negotiated buyout. Something in the range of United's offer. Something that the senior f/as would actually take WITH health benefits until medicare kicks in, and retention of sick bank for COBRA regardless.
Then, reserve rotation up to twenty five years, with the top ten percent as 1st in 1st out and excess of twenty years limited to two reserve months per year.
12 days off.
2 hour call out.
OPRs for quick calls.
Equal sick.
Equal vacation.
(Obviously this is predicated on a significant response to a buyout and subject to the math of certain bases)

Significant raise for all f/as
West vacation for all f/as
three year term with 3% raises per year exceeding the contract term.
Penalty pay for contract violations (liked that one)
Explicit and expanded section on hotels.
Analysis on "service creep" and triggers for better staffing.
Explanation: Post 9/11 our staffing was gutted. So were services, so less staffing made sense. 2012, service levels are increasing as US decides to compete, yet staffing remains at the FAA minimums. This needs addressing and any discussion of "adding amenities" must be viewed through the prism of: " if you're going to give PAX free wine on international, where's my raise?"

Again, it would be nice if this could be an unadulterated conversation for f/as. Posts that obfuscate or politicize are an obvious deliberate interference of what should be a constructive conversation.

And just to put it to bed, as long as a f/a can walk up and bump a pilot off of a f/a jumpseat as necessary within the 10 minute time period (as they close the door) accorded to seniority, I'm fine with pilots on a f/a jumpseat. I don't like leaving people behind, so peace and quiet on that one okay?

 

[FlyUs]

"First, Bravo to us all. US f/as saw through a concession ridden shuffling of nonsense and rejected it for what it was.

However, now the devil details are our own.

I have tried to analyze what is necessary for a fair agreement. These are just some ideas:

Remove PBS as a defacto part of any contract.
Remove pilot separation as part of any new contract.
Remove CSD program as part of any new contract.
Remove any discussion of elimination of rest seats on International flights.

Retain EAST bidding system and bidsheet.
Retain / improve scope in discernable, clear and unfettered English.


So then what?
Only if we can ride the cockpit jumpseat
Well, after discussing it with some reserves, contrary to what I had thought, shifts are a bad idea. US is a commuting airline. Period. Amen. Reserve has to be a system that lets these people work and go home. Shifts just prolong the agony and would be untenable to commuting reserves. Also, every contract has a number, IMHO, reserves don't want to pay the increased cost for a new system that doesn't help them. they'd rather have another day off.

Just an idea:
Negotiated buyout. Something in the range of United's offer. Something that the senior f/as would actually take WITH health benefits until medicare kicks in, and retention of sick bank for COBRA regardless.
Then, reserve rotation up to twenty five years, with the top ten percent as 1st in 1st out and excess of twenty years limited to two reserve months per year.
12 days off.
2 hour call out.
OPRs for quick calls.
Equal sick.
Equal vacation.
(Obviously this is predicated on a significant response to a buyout and subject to the math of certain bases)

Significant raise for all f/as
West vacation for all f/as
three year term with 3% raises per year exceeding the contract term.
Penalty pay for contract violations (liked that one)
Explicit and expanded section on hotels.
Analysis on "service creep" and triggers for better staffing.
Explanation: Post 9/11 our staffing was gutted. So were services, so less staffing made sense. 2012, service levels are increasing as US decides to compete, yet staffing remains at the FAA minimums. This needs addressing and any discussion of "adding amenities" must be viewed through the prism of: " if you're going to give PAX free wine on international, where's my raise?"

Again, it would be nice if this could be an unadulterated conversation for f/as. Posts that obfuscate or politicize are an obvious deliberate interference of what should be a constructive conversation.

And just to put it to bed, as long as a f/a can walk up and bump a pilot off of a f/a jumpseat as necessary within the 10 minute time period (as they close the door) accorded to seniority, I'm fine with pilots on a f/a jumpseat. I don't like leaving people behind, so peace and quiet on that one okay?

 

[BungeeJumper]

I have tried to analyze what is necessary for a fair agreement. These are just some ideas:

Remove PBS as a defacto part of any contract.
Remove pilot separation as part of any new contract.
Remove CSD program as part of any new contract.
Remove any discussion of elimination of rest seats on International flights.

Retain EAST bidding system and bidsheet.
Retain / improve scope in discernable, clear and unfettered English.


So then what?

Well, after discussing it with some reserves, contrary to what I had thought, shifts are a bad idea. US is a commuting airline. Period. Amen. Reserve has to be a system that lets these people work and go home. Shifts just prolong the agony and would be untenable to commuting reserves. Also, every contract has a number, IMHO, reserves don't want to pay the increased cost for a new system that doesn't help them. they'd rather have another day off.

Just an idea:
Negotiated buyout. Something in the range of United's offer. Something that the senior f/as would actually take WITH health benefits until medicare kicks in, and retention of sick bank for COBRA regardless.
Then, reserve rotation up to twenty five years, with the top ten percent as 1st in 1st out and excess of twenty years limited to two reserve months per year.
12 days off.
2 hour call out.
OPRs for quick calls.
Equal sick.
Equal vacation.
(Obviously this is predicated on a significant response to a buyout and subject to the math of certain bases)

Significant raise for all f/as
West vacation for all f/as
three year term with 3% raises per year exceeding the contract term.
Penalty pay for contract violations (liked that one)
Explicit and expanded section on hotels.
Analysis on "service creep" and triggers for better staffing.

Some really great points here in this post. Thanks for the detail! What percentage increase were the topped out F/A's offered, and what (realistic) percentage would be considered significant enough? I'm still a little confused about how a 24hour reserve period is better than a 12 hour period. If you're on the 1AM-1PM shift, and your day is done at 1PM, isn't that better than being on call the entire 24 hour day? Also, what is it about PBS that makes it undesirable? Everything I've read about PBS, from people who actually use it, is really positive. And isn't the expectation with PBS that it will create more lineholders because every trip will be awarded...thus meaning fewer people would be on reserve? Love the buyout idea...I think management totally missed out on that opportunity. Thanks again for posting this detail...I think it's things like the detail you've posted that really make folks understand where you're coming from and it helps to gain support.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

"First, Bravo to us all. US f/as saw through a concession ridden shuffling of nonsense and rejected it for what it was.

However, now the devil details are our own.

I have tried to analyze what is necessary for a fair agreement. These are just some ideas:

Remove PBS as a defacto part of any contract.
Remove pilot separation as part of any new contract.
Remove CSD program as part of any new contract.
Remove any discussion of elimination of rest seats on International flights.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me PBS and CSD are? Thanks!

 

[BungeeJumper]

Would someone be kind enough to tell me PBS and CSD are? Thanks!

PBS=Preferential Bidding System. Instead of the company taking trips and building lines from it, and then the FA's bid lines, with PBS, FA's can build their own lines with specific trips (i.e PHL-CDT=PHL each week) or with generic preferences (such as "I want trips starting after 11AM with no redeye flights and layovers in DEN, ATL and BOS and I don't want to work with Suzy Q). In seniority order, it goes through and creates lines and awards those lines to the FA's, based on the selections.

CSD=Cabin Service Director. The CSD leads, directs and is in charge of the activities of the cabin crew on board Transoceanic International flights.

 

[ebwgs]

"First, Bravo to us all. US f/as saw through a concession ridden shuffling of nonsense and rejected it for what it was.

However, now the devil details are our own.

I have tried to analyze what is necessary for a fair agreement. These are just some ideas:

Remove PBS as a defacto part of any contract.
Remove pilot separation as part of any new contract.
Remove CSD program as part of any new contract.
Remove any discussion of elimination of rest seats on International flights.

Retain EAST bidding system and bidsheet.
Retain / improve scope in discernable, clear and unfettered English.


So then what?

Well, after discussing it with some reserves, contrary to what I had thought, shifts are a bad idea. US is a commuting airline. Period. Amen. Reserve has to be a system that lets these people work and go home. Shifts just prolong the agony and would be untenable to commuting reserves. Also, every contract has a number, IMHO, reserves don't want to pay the increased cost for a new system that doesn't help them. they'd rather have another day off.

Just an idea:
Negotiated buyout. Something in the range of United's offer. Something that the senior f/as would actually take WITH health benefits until medicare kicks in, and retention of sick bank for COBRA regardless.
Then, reserve rotation up to twenty five years, with the top ten percent as 1st in 1st out and excess of twenty years limited to two reserve months per year.
12 days off.
2 hour call out.
OPRs for quick calls.
Equal sick.
Equal vacation.
(Obviously this is predicated on a significant response to a buyout and subject to the math of certain bases)

Significant raise for all f/as
West vacation for all f/as
three year term with 3% raises per year exceeding the contract term.
Penalty pay for contract violations (liked that one)
Explicit and expanded section on hotels.
Analysis on "service creep" and triggers for better staffing.
Explanation: Post 9/11 our staffing was gutted. So were services, so less staffing made sense. 2012, service levels are increasing as US decides to compete, yet staffing remains at the FAA minimums. This needs addressing and any discussion of "adding amenities" must be viewed through the prism of: " if you're going to give PAX free wine on international, where's my raise?"

Again, it would be nice if this could be an unadulterated conversation for f/as. Posts that obfuscate or politicize are an obvious deliberate interference of what should be a constructive conversation.

And just to put it to bed, as long as a f/a can walk up and bump a pilot off of a f/a jumpseat as necessary within the 10 minute time period (as they close the door) accorded to seniority, I'm fine with pilots on a f/a jumpseat. I don't like leaving people behind, so peace and quiet on that one okay?

I like most of the bullets points, however I like the CSD program and I strongly feel the F/A jumpseat should be limited to flight attendants. But on the major economic and work rule issues we are in agreement. As euphoric as everyone has been this weekend over our rejecting the TA, I frankly am rather sad. Don't get me wrong: I voted against that ill-fated TA because it was an insult. I'm sad because we were presented with a TA that 75% of us couldn't vote to ratify. We don't just want a new deal but a fair deal. I look forward to voting on a tentative that I can support.

 

[SparrowHawk]

One of the things that leaped out at me was the length of the contract. Now I'm just a customer but in attempting to put myself in someones shoes, if someone threw me a 5 year deal that will take an additional 2 to 3 years to get a new one can print the offer on Charmin and wipe their ass with it.

Three Years is long enough. Unless there is a back end provision that forces the company to negotiate and have a deal done at the end of five years.

Something like a 2% raise YoY with a 6% raise for every month past 60 until a deal is done. that way you mitigate the risk of a five + two year contract.

The reality is due to the RLA a contract even with "good" airlines can take YEARS. Didn't WN take 4 years to get their F/A contract done and they are actually a well managed company unlike US Airways.

 

[galley princess]

It seems to me that we need to start with our present agreement, and address what isn't working for us.

At the same time, a baseline of industry standard should also be a starting point.

One of the serious mistakes of the negotiating committe was how and when they negotiated compensation.

That should be first. Base raises are a priority. After that, if US wants more efficient work rules, we can horse trade.

They want PBS? That's a huge value item and we want the value in another form, whether it be money or work rules. For example:
-78 hour reserve guarantee
-Time and a half holidays
-Zero weekend/ holiday touch
-MONEY

PBS was a product of a concessionary bankruptcy contract. It wasn't enacted. That was an oversight on the part of US, not f/as. It's not an existing entity, which mean it's either off the table or needs to be paid for. Had US come to an agreement with the union and actually purchased an acceptable program, it wouldn't be an issue, it would simply be a fact, that they didn't pursue it means that it is theoretical and a concession for US f/as.

CSD program? I am not opposed but it is a value item. I want something in return. MONEY.

The defunct TA in a bundle actually would have cost US less than our present contract. Assuming all the efficiency wishes that US wants, there is a signifiant raise in order to get it. For whatever reason, US believes that f/as are unaware of the value of our work rules. That isn't the case, and if they want them changed, they need to understand that compensation above inflation necessitated raises is required.

Business works this way. That's why it's called negotiating.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The East pilot contract currently authorizes PBS, the West pilot's use PBS, and I believe the pilot's Negotiating Committee has agreed to PBS in their comprehensive proposal, which will create East Pilot-F/A separation when the pilot's get to a joint contract.