EXECUTIVE BONUSES MAKE ME SICK!

[Bob Owens]

So if I am following this thread correctly, mechanics have the capacity to understand what it is like to do other peoples' jobs, but no one else has the capacity to understand what it is like to be a mechanic.

Did I get that right?

Wrong again.

The fact is that WE DID OUR JOB. The executives are the ones that screwed up, and they demand that we take paycuts to make up for their screwups.

If planes were falling out of the sky due to maintenance then you and every other a$$40le would have every right to criticize us, but thats not happening.

We are supposed to maintain aircraft to the standards set by the company and approved by the FAA. We have done that consistantly.

Management is supposed to run the company profitably, they have failed.

They failed and we took pay cuts. They failed due to outrageous capital expenditures such as billions spent on unneeded terminal alterations, the failure to hedge fuel, the failure to adjust the companies operations and headcount after 9-11, the purchase of another airline, rediculously expensive first class modules etc. This management team pissed away billions in capital and failed to steer the company through the difficulties after 9-11. Every officer at HDQ should have been fired.

One of the reasons why Bear69, Oneflyer,Eolson, and FWAAA hate us so much is we say what we feel. They spend their lives sucking ck and kissing a$$ just to get ahead. AA is like the TWU, except more educated.

We just want a fair days pay for a fair days work. They detest such a concept. They dont want a fair days pay, they want millions and they will do anything except a fair days work to get it. They really feel they are worth millions, because of what they had to do to get there. We see executives at money losing companies getting bonuses and million dollar paychecks because other a$$kissing whores determine what executives get paid, if it was based on merit they would be unemployed.

What really pisses these guys off is that they feel that everybody owes them respect for where they have landed and they dont get it from us.

 

[eolesen]

One of the reasons why Bear69, Oneflyer,Eolson, and FWAAA hate us so much is we say what we feel. They spend their lives sucking ck and kissing a$$ just to get ahead. AA is like the TWU, except more educated.

Another example that only mechanics know facts, eh?

One reason some people might not have a lot of respect for you is because you (and a few others) seem to think that your opinions are the only ones that count, Bob. Everyone here has an opinion, and nobody is going to be right 100% of the time. Except for you, of course.

We just want a fair days pay for a fair days work.

And management wants a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. Where you and management differ is on what constitute a fair days work, and what constitutes a fair days pay.

 

[Hopeful]

Another example that only mechanics know facts, eh?

One reason some people might not have a lot of respect for you is because you (and a few others) seem to think that your opinions are the only ones that count, Bob. Everyone here has an opinion, and nobody is going to be right 100% of the time. Except for you, of course.
And management wants a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. Where you and management differ is on what constitute a fair days work, and what constitutes a fair days pay.

The bottom line is that no matter who does a fair day's work and how it is determined, management are the ones that get rewarded. PERIOD!

 

[Bear96]

Wrong again.

The fact is that WE DID OUR JOB. The executives are the ones that screwed up, and they demand that we take paycuts to make up for their screwups.

If planes were falling out of the sky due to maintenance then you and every other a$$40le would have every right to criticize us, but thats not happening.

We are supposed to maintain aircraft to the standards set by the company and approved by the FAA. We have done that consistantly.

Management is supposed to run the company profitably, they have failed.

Please. The industry changed. Deal with it. It (like ANY business or industry) is ALWAYS changing. Change happened particularly rapidly to the airline industry over the last five years.

Good thing you weren't a Pony Express driver.

Still waiting for a bunch of disgruntled mechanics to start their own airline and show all the others how they can pay all front line employees six figures yet still be profitable, given the realities of today's market.

 

[Hopeful]

Please. The industry changed. Deal with it. It (like ANY business or industry) is ALWAYS changing. Change happened particularly rapidly to the airline industry over the last five years.

Good thing you weren't a Pony Express driver.

Still waiting for a bunch of disgruntled mechanics to start their own airline and show all the others how they can pay all front line employees six figures yet still be profitable, given the realities of today's market.

I don't recall reading here where anyone is demanding six figure salaries for mechanics.
You are right about the industry having changed.
Management has forced the changes on the workers by filing or just, as in AA's case, threatening bankruptcy.

Did I mention that when Redding was at JFK several weeks ago, he said that he had suffered too? He hadn't been getting what "others" had been in terms of compesation.
Did I mention that?
But what has not changed are the executives compensation and greed!
That has not changed one bit!
You defend management to the end, but they are still getting rewarded!

Why is it, Bear, that you and other pro management defenders can so easily tell the mechanics that if we don't like it, leave if we think we can do better elsewhere?
Why don't you tell that to Redding and the other poor souls who are hurting so much because AA can't pay them what other executives get paid?

The difference is that guys like Martinez and Redding tell the workers to leave if they aren't happy at AA, but when they tell Arpey that they aren't happy at AA, AA manges to pay them to keep them.

Why is that Bear?

And spare me the "market rate" rhethoric. It is old and stale because these guys' "marker rate" is determined by their peers!

 

[TWU informer]

 

[Bear96]

I don't recall reading here where anyone is demanding six figure salaries for mechanics.
You are right about the industry having changed.

So just what does a topped-out AA mechanic working full time make these days? What is a good average figure for annual gross earnings? And how much do you want it to be -- you know, this magic figure that will make the nonstop wailing cease? Let's get some numbers on the table.

Management has forced the changes on the workers by filing or just, as in AA's case, threatening bankruptcy.

So AA could have just continued on without any changes, with the cost structure of the late 1990s, and everything would have been just fine. Is that what you are saying?

Why is it, Bear, that you and other pro management defenders can so easily tell the mechanics that if we don't like it, leave if we think we can do better elsewhere?
Why don't you tell that to Redding and the other poor souls who are hurting so much because AA can't pay them what other executives get paid?

If I see them complaining about what they are getting paid, I would tell them the exact same thing.

The difference is that guys like Martinez and Redding tell the workers to leave if they aren't happy at AA, but when they tell Arpey that they aren't happy at AA, AA manges to pay them to keep them.

Why is that Bear?

It all comes down to how easy it is to replace someone. Apparently AA has decided it is easier to replace front-line folk than it is to replace senior management. You, of course, are free to disagree with that. You are also free to start your own business if you think you know so much about it.

 

[FWAAA]

Meanwhile, over at Delta, 1,200 top managers are seeking about 2.4% of the new stock, tentatively valued at about $240 million:

Delta's 1,200 managers will get $240 million overall, or about $200,000 each on average. But they will not get cash, and unlike regular employees, who can sell their stock immediately, the managers' awards are in the form of restricted stock, stock options, and performance shares, vested for periods between 6 months and three years.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/20/news/compa...rce=yahoo_quote

Managers at UAL take 8% of the new stock of that company, valued at about $480 million upon bankruptcy exit; DL execs seek about $240 million, yet the whining continues about the greedy bastard AA execs taking about $300 million in stock.

Let the paycheck envy continue.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

And how much do you want it to be -- you know, this magic figure that will make the nonstop wailing cease? Let's get some numbers on the table.

Well, since you ask, restoring what was taken away under the threat of bankruptcy (and with all the pap about "shared sacrifice") in 03 would do it for me.

Or just put us back where we were vis-à-vis the cost of living in 84 or so.

Either one would be a "magic figure" you seem so interested in.

I believe the legal plea would be "make me whole".

It all comes down to how easy it is to replace someone.

Unfortunately, that is true. The continuing influx of cheap (and rapidly multiplying) unskilled labor is adversely affecting the entire labor force. And, as if that were not enough, maintenance work is being outsourced to cheaper labor countries, too. The work is of execrable quality, but the planes keep flying and making money.

 

[Bear96]

Well, since you ask, restoring what was taken away under the threat of bankruptcy (and with all the pap about "shared sacrifice") in 03 would do it for me.

Riiiiight. Mechanics have been complaining for 20 years now, and going back four would make you happy? Doubt it. You'd still be complaining, even with 2003 wages.

Still want to see some numbers though. What did a full-time mechanic make in 2003? What about today? How does that compare to the median wage in the U.S.? Are you all really as poverty-stricken as you make out to be?

 

[FWAAA]

They failed and we took pay cuts. They failed due to outrageous capital expenditures such as billions spent on unneeded terminal alterations, the failure to hedge fuel, the failure to adjust the companies operations and headcount after 9-11, the purchase of another airline, rediculously expensive first class modules etc. This management team pissed away billions in capital and failed to steer the company through the difficulties after 9-11. Every officer at HDQ should have been fired.

Over 20,000 AA/TWA employees furloughed in the immediate wake of September 11, 2001; a reduction of 20% of the flight schedule, and yet you think management failed to properly "adjust operations" and "headcount?"

You really hate those first class Flagship Suites, don't you? It's too bad you don't understand what drives the big revenue in NYC. You understand fixing airplanes - of that I'm certain. The problem is that you don't understand that the Flagship Suites are one reason why AA's yields didn't fall as much as at UA or DL or CO in the wake of September 11. AA doesn't buy them and BA and VS capture all the high-yielding customers, leaving AA with the garbage fare vacationers.

Probably should have never bought those 777s either. Much too expensive for Budget-Minded Bob Ownes. Should have kept the 707s and DC-10s. Expensive airplanes are for others.

For a mere couple hundred million you guys could have bought enough of the stock in Feb-March of 2003 to enable you to take over the board and fire all the management. But easier to not do that and complain.

You said that AA "pissed away billions in capital." In one respect, I agree with you. From September, 2001 thru April, 2003, AA borrowed about $3 billion to make payroll. Used it for wages for employees instead of demanding wage concessions in early October, 2001. "Pissed away" $3 billion it didn't have. Oh, I see, it's only pissed away if it was spent on something with which you disagree. OK.

One of the reasons why Bear69, Oneflyer,Eolson, and FWAAA hate us so much is we say what we feel. They spend their lives sucking ck and kissing a$$ just to get ahead. AA is like the TWU, except more educated.

You really can be an ignorant ass, can't you? I don't hate anyone at AA, least of all the people who post here. Dunno about the other posters you listed - but I don't hate. I don't always agree with you, but that's disagreement, not hate. Anyway - very classy of you nonetheless.

We just want a fair days pay for a fair days work. They detest such a concept. They dont want a fair days pay, they want millions and they will do anything except a fair days work to get it. They really feel they are worth millions, because of what they had to do to get there. We see executives at money losing companies getting bonuses and million dollar paychecks because other a$$kissing whores determine what executives get paid, if it was based on merit they would be unemployed.

If you'd read any of my posts, you'd know that I fully support you and the other line maintenance guys getting more like $100k or $120k ($50 or $60 an hour) for what you do. Couple of problems with that, however: One is that you (meaning the line guys in the expensive big cities) showed up for work for the current $31/hr even though you claim it's not enough. Another is that AA is never gonna pay the guys in Tulsa or Kansas City or Fort Worth that much.

A few weeks ago, someone (TWU Informer?) posted that $90k to $100k was not unheard of in Tulsa prior to the concessions. That's like $200k in New York. Bunch of guys in one of the cheapest places to live in the entire country have been eating too much of the pie, leaving nothing but scraps for you and Mr MacTiernan and the others. That's wrong. But whatcha gonna do? You're all in the same union and I doubt any of those OH guys are gonna voluntarily give up more pay just so you can be fairly compensated for that day's work.

What really pisses these guys off is that they feel that everybody owes them respect for where they have landed and they dont get it from us.

I post here as a diversion, not because I'm seeking your respect or approval. And I certainly don't get angry or pissed off about it.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I post here as a diversion............

My heart goes out to you for not having more rewarding things commanding your attention.

I can think of all sorts of Wiki or Google activities far more interesting than posting on a discussion board where I have no compelling interest. That would almost seem like trolling.

Sports? Hobbies? Financial? Home Improvement? Recipes? Pets? Travel?

Newspapers? Magazines? Oprah?

Are you important enough to surf porn at work?

Anything.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -----NEWS FLASH!!! Delta's CEO refuses Bonus after Delta leaves Bankrupcy!!!!

 

[aafsc]

<_< -----NEWS FLASH!!! Delta's CEO refuses Bonus after Delta leaves Bankrupcy!!!!

But the Delta employees lost a LOT more than we did.

 

[nbmcg01]

But the Delta employees lost a LOT more than we did.

I don't think any AA employee would begrudge any executive the same amount of shares we were given..... The flight attendants received 198. Sounds fair for the "big" guys.