EXECUTIVE BONUSES MAKE ME SICK!

[Bear96]

NO....Bear96, Bob Owens and I are not saying "destroy" AA !

Aren't you retired?

You "seem" to think, that IF the "good ol' boys" in TUL stopped "going the extra mile", that AA will immediately go into BK-11.

I do? When did I say or imply anything like that?

And BTW, are we really talking about "going the extra mile" here, or simply doing one's job (you know, the tasks one is expected to do to get a paychek), about going out of one's way to harm the company?

Bob Owens and I are suggesting that IF the "good ol' boys" stopped going the extra mile, that AA WOULD go to "plan B"(along with THEIR union..the twu) to RELUCTANTLY have to "sweeten the pot" in the upcoming contract negotiations.

And I am suggesting it is miserable way to go through life hating your employer so much. It is not good for your mental or emotional health, and if on top of that you feel you have been "robbed" or are being woefully undercompensated, it is not good for your (and your family's) finances either. Find a fulfilling job if the 21st Century airline industry isn't doing it for you. Or go start your own airline and show the rest of the industry how it can pay front-line employees six-figure salaries and still make a profit.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

bear96,
"And I am suggesting it is miserable way to go through life hating your employer so much."

It is also a miserable way to go through life hating your employees.

Who "hated" whom first? :huh:

 

[Bear96]

Both started at about the same time.

But what does it matter?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

And BTW, are we really talking about "going the extra mile" here, or simply doing one's job (you know, the tasks one is expected to do to get a paychek), about going out of one's way to harm the company?

If we did our job by the book like we are supposed to do nothing would leave the ground.

Especially when it comes to line maintenance

ponder that for a while 69

 

[jetmechjer]

If we did our job by the book like we are supposed to do nothing would leave the ground.

Especially when it comes to line maintenance

ponder that for a while 69

That is so true!! If we followed even 70% of Eh Eh's rules this place would shut down!! I mean 20 miles an hour on the ramp, do not drive behind aircraft with engines running or beacon on, take unsafe vehicles out of service, get all the paperwork for every job, get all the correct tools for every job if we even have them and so on.........
Many years ago here in DFW all the departments did this for about a week and it made me proud to see the unity for once. Maybe we could all work safe for a while thru out the system to ensure we are all around to make more money for management BONE US es!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bear96]

If we did our job by the book like we are supposed to do nothing would leave the ground.

Especially when it comes to line maintenance

ponder that for a while 69

Not much to ponder, except why on Earth you haven't been doing that all along?

All the posts here about how your name and license are on the line when you sign the logbook so it is so important to do it precisly right, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam, and now you are saying no one follows the rules they are supposed to be following?

And if you had been following the rules you would have gotten management's attention long ago?

What have you been waiting for?

How about all those dramatic stories that you would get thrown in jail if you don't follow all the rules? Have there been mass mechanic arrests I wasn't aware of? Why would you put yourselves at risk like that?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Not much to ponder, except why on Earth you haven't been doing that all along?

All the posts here about how your name and license are on the line when you sign the logbook so it is so important to do it precisly right, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam, and now you are saying no one follows the rules they are supposed to be following?

And if you had been following the rules you would have gotten management's attention long ago?

What have you been waiting for?

How about all those dramatic stories that you would get thrown in jail if you don't follow all the rules? Have there been mass mechanic arrests I wasn't aware of? Why would you put yourselves at risk like that?

Your not being an AMT prevents you from understanding what it means to be an AMT.

 

[Bear96]

Your not being an AMT prevents you from understanding what it means to be an AMT.

And your not being a manager prevents you from understanding what it takes to manage a business.

Your simplistic attitude kinda leaves everything at a stalemate without any hope for improvement, doesn't it.

 

[TWU informer]

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

And your not being a manager prevents you from understanding what it takes to manage a business.

Your simplistic attitude kinda leaves everything at a stalemate without any hope for improvement, doesn't it.

Yea, thats the typical "simplistic" answer I used to receive from UALs management too.

Funny thing, I'm a manager now (albeit not in aviation) and its still a BS answer.

Just before I left UAL, and arguments of this sort were the flavor of the day, one of our (then) divisional managers had his hat handed to him by a rather astute Lead AMT. The DM was (like most) trying to defend the indefensible with an argument very similar to the one you stated above, the veteran Leads response...

".....I don't know how to make movies, but I know a bad one when I see it."

 

[eolesen]

I'm not a supporter of the way the bonuses are triggered, but they've got a point when it comes to compensation at other companies -- AMR management and executives have always been on the bottom rungs as far as base pay goes.

If it's fair for you to compare yourselves in bad times to profitable airlines like SWA and UPS as far as contracts go, then it's fair game to expect execs to do the same.

The difference is that all we can do is COMPARE and talk about it and never get anything, while the execs actually GET SOMETHING!

It's all in the negotiations. I've said it before -- when you've got someone emotionally attached to the contract representing you at the table instead of a neutral party, you're not going to get the best deal possible.

In the case of execs, they usually have either a professional recruiter or employment lawyer working their contract. That's how my last employment contract was negotiated -- I listed what was really important, and what was nice to have. The resulting agreement was better than I would have been able to get myself, mainly because the third party had negotiated hundreds if not thousands of agreements, knew what would be an easy sell and what would cause more heartache than it was worth.

I know you think execs have a blank check when it comes down to compensation, but that's not the fact. It's really no different than the NFL's salary cap -- there are only so many salary dollars to go around, and the salary you bring someone in at today has to leave you room for bringing in new talent in subsequent years...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Your not being an AMT prevents you from understanding what it means to be an AMT.

Ditto

 

[Bear96]

Yea, thats the typical "simplistic" answer I used to receive from UALs management too.

Funny thing, I'm a manager now (albeit not in aviation) and its still a BS answer.

What's funny about that? I wasn't talking to you.

".....I don't know how to make movies, but I know a bad one when I see it."

How about this. I don't know a thing about being an AMT, but I know a bad one when I see one.

Fair?

Of course, it's probably lost on you that, to an extent, both of us are really saying the same thing, and pointing out how ridiculous Ken's "logic" is.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

And your not being a manager prevents you from understanding what it takes to manage a business.

Your simplistic attitude kinda leaves everything at a stalemate without any hope for improvement, doesn't it.

AA's answer to business management is take from the employees to keep the airline afloat and then reward management for it. Sounds simple enough to me.

Hope for improvement. Thats a laugh. We gave enough look for improvements else where because it sure wont be from me.

Here is a better one...
I witnessed this a very long time ago a manager on a rant and yelling at a mechanic who was downgraded to a cleaner because of a RIF it went like this

Manager: "Just remember one thing I'm the boss and youre nothing"

Mechanics reply: " I guess that makes you the boss over nothing"

 

[Hopeful]

The difference is that all we can do is COMPARE and talk about it and never get anything, while the execs actually GET SOMETHING!
It's all in the negotiations. I've said it before -- when you've got someone emotionally attached to the contract representing you at the table instead of a neutral party, you're not going to get the best deal possible.

In the case of execs, they usually have either a professional recruiter or employment lawyer working their contract. That's how my last employment contract was negotiated -- I listed what was really important, and what was nice to have. The resulting agreement was better than I would have been able to get myself, mainly because the third party had negotiated hundreds if not thousands of agreements, knew what would be an easy sell and what would cause more heartache than it was worth.

I know you think execs have a blank check when it comes down to compensation, but that's not the fact. It's really no different than the NFL's salary cap -- there are only so many salary dollars to go around, and the salary you bring someone in at today has to leave you room for bringing in new talent in subsequent years...

Executive compensation is a product of the Good Ole Boys network. You make me laugh when you say that executives "negotiate" their compensation packages. Give me a break!

$350,000 a year vs...$325,000. Wow!

The difference is that their executive peers are the same ones who have their executive compensation determined by other executives...

Take CEO pay...The board of directors compensation committee decides CEO pay. Who are the board of directors?????????? Usually CEO's and other executives of other corporations who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee who have their compensation determined by their respective company's board of directors compensation committee..................

all while these same greedy SOB's decide what the market rate is for the employee.