EXECUTIVE BONUSES MAKE ME SICK!

[Wretched Wrench]

I don't know a thing about being an AMT, but I know a bad one when I see one.

You have NO idea.

The simplistic definition of a good mechanic is one who fixes every complaint and performs all service and inspections with no delays.

Oh, yeah. One who works cheap and tugs his forelock every so often in abject obeisance.

 

[Bear96]

So if I am following this thread correctly, mechanics have the capacity to understand what it is like to do other peoples' jobs, but no one else has the capacity to understand what it is like to be a mechanic.

Did I get that right?

 

[MCI transplant]

So if I am following this thread correctly, mechanics have the capacity to understand what it is like to do other peoples' jobs, but no one else has the capacity to understand what it is like to be a mechanic.

Did I get that right?

<_< ----- Bear, you don't have a clue!

 

[jetmechjer]

So if I am following this thread correctly, mechanics have the capacity to understand what it is like to do other peoples' jobs, but no one else has the capacity to understand what it is like to be a mechanic.

Did I get that right?

Your a management puke!! You have no idea what it is to use your brain and hands skillfully to accomplish an impossible task. Like hanging upside down in the tail of a super 80 and replacing a hydraulic line that you can't even see but can only do by feel. An aircraft mechanic, auto mechanic, plumber, electrician or any other skilled mechanic could screw you, while you watched him work, and he could smile at you and make you believe you are getting a good deal. Luckily most aircraft mechanics are not like that. But I know auto mechanics just love idiots like you!! Pay us now or pay us later but you can't pull over to the side of the road when your at 35000 feet!!!
:down: :down: :down:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

And your not being a manager prevents you from understanding what it takes to manage a business.

Your simplistic attitude kinda leaves everything at a stalemate without any hope for improvement, doesn't it.

Being labor/union I know what is expected of me. That is professionalism in my craft. I also expect to be paid fairly for my responsibilities.

As for being "simplistic" what is wrong with that? It is VERY basic. Being an AMT I know my job. I know what to do and what not to do. As for improvements what do you want to improve on? reducing my craft's pay and benefits? Which in turn will reduce management's ability to properly manage.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What's funny about that? I wasn't talking to you.

You weren't talking to me? That's the best you could come up with?

I've noticed that not being specifically addressed has never stopped you from offering your unsolicited and often inane commentary. Careful there Bear, you're approaching the textbook definition of a hypocrite.

How about this. I don't know a thing about being an AMT, but I know a bad one when I see one.

Fair?

Of course, it's probably lost on you that, to an extent, both of us are really saying the same thing, and pointing out how ridiculous Ken's "logic" is.

What's obviously lost on you is that while we both may indeed call a Mechanic on his BS, I unlike you do not attempt to belittle/trivialize their station, nor discredit/devalue their legitimate concerns.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

So if I am following this thread correctly, mechanics have the capacity to understand what it is like to do other peoples' jobs, but no one else has the capacity to understand what it is like to be a mechanic.

Did I get that right?

What I have right is your support of the way AA is manageing. Ie. concessions for labor and bonuses for management. THAT makes you a poor management individual... at any level.

I do have the capacity to understand what other jobs entail. I understand a pilot's and f/a's job function and know that each look at an aircraft in a different way. I understand management's job in what is needed to run a highly motivated, spirited, professional work force that is REQUIRED/DEMANDED to provide safe, airworthy aircraft. With AA's actions, reduced manning=increased workload, supervisor's signing off inspection paper work (DFW I believe) my understanding is different from yours.

What I don't understand is if you believe in AA's management so much, and claim to be in management why don't you use your real name? h34r:

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Bear, you only have to look at what we've accomplished with the third part work. aa management acknowledges that we are more expensive than some. But the difference is we can produce those Aircraft "on time", and the product they receive will be "first class", at a "reasonable price"! aa is building it's reputation! And reputation in this business= $$$$! The point of this thread is, now that we seem to be cresting that all important hill, aa's management is willing to put all of that in jeopardy because of "greed"!!!!----Sorry Bear, but that sounds a little short sighted to me!------

 

[Bear96]

What I have right is your support of the way AA is manageing. Ie. concessions for labor and bonuses for management. THAT makes you a poor management individual... at any level.

Please point out one post of mine where I have "supported" management bonuses.

I do have the capacity to understand what other jobs entail.

Yet you don't seem to think anyone else has the capacity to understand what an AMT's job entails.

Somehow, I bet you aren't capable of seeing the irony in that.

What I don't understand is if you believe in AA's management so much, and claim to be in management why don't you use your real name? h34r:

When have I claimed to "believe in" AA's management? When have I ever claimed to be in management? I'm a relatively low-level grunt with my employer, just like you.

You folks here make a lot of assumptions about people, in your simplistic black/white world. If someone doesn't tow your party line, they must be evil management and support everything about AA management.

Guess what -- the real world is a lot more complicated than your union talking points would lead you to believe.

 

[TWU informer]

 

[Bob Owens]

About the $5 billion in cash, as eolesen pointed out, there's more than just concessions behind the current cash balance: Don't forget to add the $1.5 billion or so raised in new stock sales since the concessions - $900 million in the past 9 months in two separate offerings. And don't forget to add more than a billion of new debt borrowed in 2003-04 after the concessions.

You left out the fact that they paid off a couple of billion in debt and their total debt is several billion less.

Break even doesn't pay down the $3 billion of new debt borrowed between September,,,,. Break even doesn't pay down the $2 billion of pension plan underfunding. Break even doesn't pay for new fuel efficient airplanes,,,.

Well break even is a lot better off than what the company is expecting its employees to do. I'd be content with break even,what they are paying doesnt pay off the mortgage, cover utilties, property taxes,fuel, insurance and groceries never mind the fact that we cant afford to buy new fuel efficient cars, you speak as if we are insulated from increased energy costs. We pay more too,but on top of that we earn less, a double whammy.

What bankruptcy avoidance did was take the total market cap of AMR from $225 million in March, 2003 and expand it by 3,400% to the present level of more than $7.6 billion.

Like I've said all along, all we did was save the stockholders from taking a loss.

One reason that airline execs compare themselves to execs in other industries is that their skills (whatever those may be) transfer fairly readily. A chief financial officer for an airline who is good at what they do can work for any major corporation - it doesn't have to be an airline. Same for most other MBA-holding executives, be it Marketing, Finance, Accounting, etc.

BS. The fact is they chose this industry just like mechanics(whose skills are also easily transferrable).This is just another example of their doubletalk.They want to compare themselves to profitable industries and balk when we compare ourselves to UPS and SWA, nevermind other industries that hire A&Ps.

About your bolded quote: Kinda hard to justfify paying anyone more money than you make based on that reasoning.

Thats your reasoning, not mine.Demmings? had a figure, I believe it was 10 to 1 from top to bottom.

After all, you work hard, in the elements, and risk death at work. So far, that philosophy hasn't gained much traction in the USA. For that I'm glad.

Not suprised that you would favor outrageous pay for those who actually produce nothing while sitting in a safe enviornment while those who actually work and face real risk get less and less. But the fact is that most of these executives are not entrepreneurs who came up with a brilliant new product or concept, they are hired hands and their salaries are determined by other hired hands who have a vested interest in inflating the going rate for their peers. The system is out of balance.

You're right - you could work to rule and placard that broken First Class suite. If it really meant that AA didn't sell it to Shanghai (rather than prevent a J -> F upgrade) then your work action cost AA about $13k at list price (round trip, full F). AA sells F to China but usually at some corporate discount - maybe $10k net of that discount. But why would you do that? Don't you want to work for a profitable company? Do you really think someone at AA is gonna say "we can't have all these broken F seats anymore - it's costing us too much revenue. So let's give in to Bob Owens' demands and restore the mechanics' pay according to his CPI chart."

Well the point wasnt meant for you. Those for whom it was meant understand it and how it works. But the fact is that as MELs add up, sooner or later they result in some big loss of revenue or at the very least some OT for the mechanics to make up for their paycuts. But remember this, if mechanics are working OT it means that a plane is not out there making money.

Maybe that would happen.

More likely is that someone at AA is gonna say "let's hire another couple mechanics at LHR and other foreign stations so we can have them fix what those lazy guys at JFK refuse to do. And while we're at it, let's pull a NW and lock these guys out and replace them."

Fine, Lets go, do it. NW scraped the bottom of the barrel. Over 70% of the NWA mechanics opted to sever all ties with the company because they had moved on. AA, despite the very few recalls its had is seeing a high rate of refusals. The military cant get them, the schools cant recruit them. Where are they going to get all these mechanics? Hire more in LHR, fine, they cost more than we do, so where is the savings? This is all about money. Would it be cheaper to pay us a little more and get a lot more out of us, especially when it counts, or go to extremes to make a point? We dont want to destroy the company but we cant let these executives destroy us in order to "Save" it. The fact is they are way ahead even if they gave us everything we wanted. But if we give them more after they took away so much then their greed will simple drive them to take even more, we need to throw a little mud in their face just to let them know that they have gone too far and we want it back, or its going to cost them.If they insist on seeeing how little they can pay us before we quit then our best recourse is to see how little we can work before they fire us, fair is fair, they chose this not us. The fact is that AA is not NWA nor is the market for A&Ps as "flush" as it was a year ago. Foreign repair? Fine, fly all them MD-80s and 737s over there and they will squeeze them into their schedules, after they take care of their own fleet, which is the fastest growing part of the market.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Aren't you retired?
I do? When did I say or imply anything like that?

And BTW, are we really talking about "going the extra mile" here, or simply doing one's job (you know, the tasks one is expected to do to get a paychek), about going out of one's way to harm the company?
And I am suggesting it is miserable way to go through life hating your employer so much. It is not good for your mental or emotional health, and if on top of that you feel you have been "robbed" or are being woefully undercompensated, it is not good for your (and your family's) finances either. Find a fulfilling job if the 21st Century airline industry isn't doing it for you. Or go start your own airline and show the rest of the industry how it can pay front-line employees six-figure salaries and still make a profit.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bear96,

YES, I am retired, ...BUT what does that have to do with "the price of tea in China" ???????

Oh, wait a minute....I get it now.
You probably think, that since I'm retired, that I stop caring about my "true" union brothers and sisters..right?

Another thing I DON'T expect you to understand....Even though I'm retired, I AM STILL a member of this Union....for LIFE !
(I just don't have to pay union dues, and cannot vote....BUT I'm still a member) !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[ch53D]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bear96,

YES, I am retired, ...BUT what does that have to do with "the price of tea in China" ???????

Oh, wait a minute....I get it now.
You probably think, that since I'm retired, that I stop caring about my "true" union brothers and sisters..right?

Another thing I DON'T expect you to understand....Even though I'm retired, I AM STILL a member of this Union....for LIFE !
(I just don't have to pay union dues, and cannot vote....BUT I'm still a member) !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

You have a chance to vote one more time. AA/TWU (one of the same) likes to include retired, re-signed, and dead on eligibly lists at the NMB.

 

[Bear96]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bear96,

YES, I am retired, ...BUT what does that have to do with "the price of tea in China" ???????

Not much, really. I only asked because it was sounding like you were saying you would jump in and decide not to fix certain items too, to "do your part" for the "cause." I didn't see how you could do that from the comfort of your retired living room easy chair. Apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[AMFAMAN]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(I just don't have to pay union dues, and cannot vote....BUT I'm still a member) !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

About the only time it's worth belonging to the twu.