Employees to get 15 percent of Delta's equity after merger

[Kev3188]

QA4Jet-A,
sometimes, too much assertiveness can be just as, if not more, detrimental to a cause or belief when combined with aggressiveness exacerbated by lack of basic courtesy one can lose the whole message even if its telling it like it is..but I fully understand what you are implying.

... And sometimes you have to throw a proverbial brick through a window to get people's attention....


Now is not the time for us to be be milquetoasts.

Polite diplomacy/complacency will get us nowhere with the new NW/DL regime.


P.S. Well put, UT & QJet!

 

[Dignity]

Yes, you are correct, I have experience and believe, some insight to a degree. with that said...
from that "experience" generally tend to feel a pilot on a aviation message board more than likely
would use a screen name, such as "JETFIGHTERPILOT01" "Mach2B4Breakfast" "SLEATHyababy" but..
err...um..."bdazzled"??? (no offense but uh..that sounds like a toothpaste or the name of a dance studio) and from that "experience"..as mentioned.. generally not a name a PILOT would use, but hey there is nothing wrong with it and I say...go on with your bad self and bdazzle razzle frizzle frazzle down the skyway if that the case..

My first thought was more than likely "bdazzled" is not even a pilot, nothing in the profile or comments suggest that individual may be anyone other than someone just writing something to stir the pot, but then...something happened, people assumed that individual was a pilot and then the subsequent....posts followed...."pie-lots suck" blah blah blah....

What I have learned is to listen/read carefully and then....try not to make any assumptions(in this case what someone does for a living) based solely on a 'sorta colorful comment' (without adequate information)....


so next time (when reading a comment like that..just say Uff-Dah! (its a term used when the goats gone missing, or you are thinking what the...)

 

[Kev3188]

Its good to see the company finally taking care of the most important employee group on the premises. After all, the pilot group took the largest hits when the concessions came, more than any other group, and it's only fair they should reap the rewards invested.

Do your parents know you're using their computer?

 

[Dignity]

Kev3188,

sometimes..
without diplomacy in some situations in general.. some may find they wont even make it through the front door or hit the "Proverbial Brick wall"

Milquetoasts, hows that?...you say, wait a sec!... you are a pretty smart guy.. without the need
to prove anything, but please....do not(to anyone out there who now thinks they may have to prove something....) flex any muscles or chant "we are the men, men, men, men" cause then I know we are going to be in trouble....

 

[Kev3188]

Kev3188,

sometimes..
without diplomacy in some situations in general.. some may find they wont even make it through the front door or hit the "Proverbial Brick wall"

Okay, try this one: "Professional, but resolute." The combined board of this new company needs to realize that we (yes, everyone) bring value to the show. Period.

They may say they do, and shower us with fluffy comments saying the same (after all, that plays well to the masses, right?), but these platitudes are a mile wide and an inch deep. The truth is, their actions say otherwise.

It's a two-pronged approach:

First, they do things that give the illusion of caring ("call me Richard," the DL "family," etc.). They are putting a ton of energy and resources into portraying themselves as men/women of the people.

[SIDEBAR: Don't any of you DL'ers find it odd that a guy that has worked there for ~ 1 year talks about
"our family?"]

Second, on the DL side they are playing on your pride in your carrier. This, of course, makes it much easier to spread the lies and half-truths that their PR machine keeps spitting out.*

From what I've seen it's working quite well to their advantage. For the record, I'm not knocking anyone for digging the Widget, but when it defies reality, it deserves to be called out.

Is no one over there willing to admit that sometimes the emperor has no clothes?

As long as we continue to collectively whistle past the graveyard, they will continue to behave in the same manner. Why wouldn't they?

Look, we all want to be recognized as valuable to our company. That's true of any industry. But the cold reality is that the NW/DL board couldn't give a rats a$$ how much each of us bring to the plate. The way to change that is to beat them at their own game. Know the rules so you can bend them properly, you know?



*= Before someone asks me for an example, here's one: "DL's non-union employees generally enjoy better pay and benefits than their unionized counterparts at NW" This is simply not true, but it's out there, being repeated over and over.

Milquetoasts, hows that?...you say, wait a sec!... you are a pretty smart guy.. without the need
to prove anything, but please....do not(to anyone out there who now thinks they may have to prove something....) flex any muscles or chant "we are the men, men, men, men" cause then I know we are going to be in trouble....

I have to admit this one went straight over my head....

 

[Dignity]

Kev3188
based on statistics and overall performance of the airline including technology, facilities, hubs and employees it is apparent they know exactly the significance of what they are proposing to acquire/merge. The dedication of the employees alone evident over the past few years of such a tumultuous period indicates that alone did not effect job performance, as a matter of fact if anything, it showed how professional the employees truly are under extreme and stressful times...these are simply documented facts over many years. I know these men and women are some of the most professional in the industry (because I work at the airline) and see it.

I will be bold enough to state the NRT Hub and associated flights(with the continued and steady growth and demand in Asia) within 10 years will be worth half the value of the combined company. The demand for air travel in that area(even during the downturns have been showing at least 5 to 6 percent growth per year that is not declining) I feel they truly understand the value being brought to the "show". They are fortunate having Northwest people being brought on board ten times over plus.
Fluffy comments, Kevin that is what it is and always will be Fluff, I can see that understand exactly what it is regarding my perception, but you know to others, they may not see it that way, it may... be a way of recognition, a thank you, whatever! but you see... how you may or may not perceive something doesnt not mean someone else will see it the same and visa/versa, however I understand your implication.
They are not playing pride in their carrier they are proud, same as we are...hopefully the combination can bring continued feeling of that pride, but in the long run the result, I believe when all is said and done, it will be business as usual and continued dedication equally proud on both sides.

Your example *is* absolutely true, and you want to know why? it is because one word was inserted into that sentence and it was "generally" generally they have better benefits, or usually they have better pay its being used in the big picture, you see without any boundaries of when it was defined "generally" it could mean the past or in the future or maybe overall because of size of the company and associated value/payout prior to combination, take that word out and then you have a valid point, but with it there...well..it is....not being untruthful..as one word can change an entire meaning.

The only way I know anyone cannot bend the rules or behave in the same manner is to have a contract because it keeps everything in check. But that will be up to the majority.. in time, personally believe having a say in your future is not only important it is necessary especially in an industry that is affected by so many outside interventions, gas prices, economy and the cycles of upturns and of course downturns(when a contract in writing...especially matters).

 

[Dignity]

"Professional, yet resolute" I like that, its just like saying..

subtle initially, then approachable keeping in mind diplomacy while maintaining professionalism being polite, yet resolute (because not to do so would be so un-Southern).

 

[DalMD88]

Yes, you are correct, I have experience and believe, some insight to a degree. with that said...
from that "experience" generally tend to feel a pilot on a aviation message board more than likely
would use a screen name, such as "JETFIGHTERPILOT01" "Mach2B4Breakfast" "SLEATHyababy" but..
err...um..."bdazzled"??? (no offense but uh..that sounds like a toothpaste or the name of a dance studio) and from that "experience"..as mentioned.. generally not a name a PILOT would use, but hey there is nothing wrong with it and I say...go on with your bad self and bdazzle razzle frizzle frazzle down the skyway if that the case..

My first thought was more than likely "bdazzled" is not even a pilot, nothing in the profile or comments suggest that individual may be anyone other than someone just writing something to stir the pot, but then...something happened, people assumed that individual was a pilot and then the subsequent....posts followed...."pie-lots suck" blah blah blah....

What I have learned is to listen/read carefully and then....try not to make any assumptions(in this case what someone does for a living) based solely on a 'sorta colorful comment' (without adequate information)....


so next time (when reading a comment like that..just say Uff-Dah! (its a term used when the goats gone missing, or you are thinking what the...)

Yes I agree, but it is hard to turn a blind eye to some of that crap. So off on the Dennis Miller rant we go. I also tend to agree with Kev. I don't trust these suits running the show. I'm here and at this point have nowhere else to go. I don't what to change careers. I'm getting too old and to be honest I like what I do. I also don't feel like starting over with a new company. I have four weeks vacation and decent off days. My only real gripe with my job is I want to go back to ATL. Yes I wish we had a union contract with a union that has some balls. I don't see that happening.

 

[Dignity]

DalMD88,
Thank you for your comments, it is always interesting to read different perspectives and
ideas regarding an individual post from a serious nature/concern to light hearted humor,
personally feel all opinions are valid and yours is no exception!

I noticed positives paying particular
attention that what you do.. you still enjoy! I think that is wonderful and that gives a feeling
of pride in turn shows you are probably focused on excellence in all areas of your department.
Thank you for what you do and keeping us all safe in the skies!


Have a great day.

 

[Kev3188]

Yes I agree, but it is hard to turn a blind eye to some of that crap. So off on the Dennis Miller rant we go. I also tend to agree with Kev. I don't trust these suits running the show. I'm here and at this point have nowhere else to go. I don't what to change careers. I'm getting too old and to be honest I like what I do. I also don't feel like starting over with a new company. I have four weeks vacation and decent off days.

I could not have said it better myself.

The only difference is that I work in a line station (one of the smaller ones left w/mainline employees), and do not want to move to ATL to stay employed.... I've moved enough for this lifetime...

 

[dapoes]

I could not have said it better myself.

The only difference is that I work in a line station (one of the smaller ones left w/mainline employees), and do not want to move to ATL to stay employed.... I've moved enough for this lifetime...

So whats your suggestion? No merger? The merger will happen so all we can do is deal with the best we can. No?

 

[Kev3188]

The merger will happen so all we can do is deal with the best we can. No?

No.

This "que sera sera" defeatist mentality is what I and others have been railing against. This seems to be pandemic amongst DL'ers. Anderson, Bastian, etc. know that collectively the rank and file are a docile group (with some exceptions, of course) and use that to their advantage. Frankly, it seems like battered wife syndrome to me.

That needs to stop. Now.

My suggestion? Organize. Show them that together we're a cohesive unit that demands to be recognized as an asset, and not a liability. They've been trading on that whole "DL family" concept for awile now. They're the ones that go on and on about how valuable we are, right? Well, it's time for them to back that up with action, not merely the flowery promises in the dark that have been coming forth. That nonsense may have worked for you guys for a long time, but your new co-workers see right through it.

In an ideal world, it'd be nice to know that someone's word was as good as a contract. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to Anderson or Steenland. Since they are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is, then collective bargaining is the next best option.

 

[dapoes]

No.

This "que sera sera" defeatist mentality is what I and others have been railing against. This seems to be pandemic amongst DL'ers. Anderson, Bastian, etc. know that collectively the rank and file are a docile group (with some exceptions, of course) and use that to their advantage. Frankly, it seems like battered wife syndrome to me.

That needs to stop. Now.

My suggestion? Organize. Show them that together we're a cohesive unit that demands to be recognized as an asset, and not a liability. They've been trading on that whole "DL family" concept for awile now. They're the ones that go on and on about how valuable we are, right? Well, it's time for them to back that up with action, not merely the flowery promises in the dark that have been coming forth. That nonsense may have worked for you guys for a long time, but your new co-workers see right through it.

In an ideal world, it'd be nice to know that someone's word was as good as a contract. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to Anderson or Steenland. Since they are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is, then collective bargaining is the next best option.

You really think that DAL considers the FA's a liability? Docile? Where are you getting this stuff?
What are you talking about?: "Unwilling to put their money where their mouth is"?

 

[Kev3188]

You really think that DAL considers the FA's a liability? Docile? Where are you getting this stuff?
What are you talking about?: "Unwilling to put their money where their mouth is"?

I think that both companies find *all groups* to be a liability. Their actions bear this out. Look at the past deeds on both sides of the house.

Docile? You bet. I know that comes across as incendiary-if not insulting. I don't mean to personally attack anyone specific, but I'm calling it like I see it. I see it in things posted like "The merger will happen so all we can do is deal with the best we can." Obviously, that's your quote. However it's a prime example of a recurrent theme I see over and over from many different people/places.

As for the CEO's putting their money where their mouth is: I'm still waiting for a more specific version of " No frontline employee will lose their job as a result of this merger," and "as a rule DL's non-union employees enjoy better wages and benefits than their unionized NW counterparts." Really? How so? If someone's city closes, and they choose not to move, it *is* a job loss. You won't change my mind on that one, so please don't try. Anderson has already said in a Deltanet interview that each city's staffing will be looked at after a representation election. How does that not speak to a serious disconnect between what they're saying and they're doing?

P.S. Insourcing ATL airfreight is a nice start.

 

[dapoes]

I think that both companies find *all groups* to be a liability. Their actions bear this out. Look at the past deeds on both sides of the house.

Docile? You bet. I know that comes across as incendiary-if not insulting. I don't mean to personally attack anyone specific, but I'm calling it like I see it. I see it in things posted like "The merger will happen so all we can do is deal with the best we can." Obviously, that's your quote. However it's a prime example of a recurrent theme I see over and over from many different people/places.

As for the CEO's putting their money where their mouth is: I'm still waiting for a more specific version of " No frontline employee will lose their job as a result of this merger," and "as a rule DL's non-union employees enjoy better wages and benefits than their unionized NW counterparts." Really? How so? If someone's city closes, and they choose not to move, it *is* a job loss. You won't change my mind on that one, so please don't try. Anderson has already said in a Deltanet interview that each city's staffing will be looked at after a representation election. How does that not speak to a serious disconnect between what they're saying and they're doing?

P.S. Insourcing ATL airfreight is a nice start.

Again the merger will happen despite what good or bad people think of it. Not to sound like a jerk, but your just going to have to get over it. Being bitter about it is only going to affect your mental well being, no one elses. Are people going to be displaced due to mergers? You bet, it sucks but unfortunately it is what it is. In a perfect world I would like to say that everything will be the same, but unfortunately we dont live in such. So again we have to make the best of it. Or work elsewhere.