Its good to see the company finally taking care of the most important employee group on the premises. After all, the pilot group took the largest hits when the concessions came, more than any other group, and it's only fair they should reap the rewards invested.
Employees to get 15 percent of Delta's equity after merger
- Thread starter dapoes
- Start date
North by Northwest
Veteran
And the "Pilot Group" would be going WHERE? And getting WHAT pay raise without the OTHER IMPORTANT groups? You think about that the next time a NEW Delta Union shuts off your pay check during a strike.
Get your head out of your APU.
Your "most important" group would be getting peanuts if they weren't UNIONIZED.
actually it appears the pilots were very smart securing a contract prior to a merger and of course
prior to any other group unionizing after the merger. Had that group waited until after the merger they could have possibly not been the only group negotiating for a contract, instead of taking a chance in having compensation delayed or divided among other employee groups(who happen to unionize) they got their compensation issues settled..before...when there was no other employee group management had to negotiate a contract. While I believe it was necessary to a significant degree making the transaction process proceed smoother it also was to their benefit..
by resolving the contract prior, those who more than likely voted in support were...long term focused on the future ..thinking clearly to get this done now. in that regard securing significant compensation for their group in writing... It was a brilliant move on their part(to resolve it now than later).
prior to any other group unionizing after the merger. Had that group waited until after the merger they could have possibly not been the only group negotiating for a contract, instead of taking a chance in having compensation delayed or divided among other employee groups(who happen to unionize) they got their compensation issues settled..before...when there was no other employee group management had to negotiate a contract. While I believe it was necessary to a significant degree making the transaction process proceed smoother it also was to their benefit..
by resolving the contract prior, those who more than likely voted in support were...long term focused on the future ..thinking clearly to get this done now. in that regard securing significant compensation for their group in writing... It was a brilliant move on their part(to resolve it now than later).
North by Northwest
Veteran
That is in direct contrast to the "self serving greed" of the 60% Delta cabin crew who voted NO thinking they would get a leg up on NWA Crew (by expecting Delta exec. to remain in control). They foolishly wasted an opportunity to gain from a great chance of "guaranteed" pay and benefit improvements...vs. a "promise" that isn't worth the air used to speak it.
This way of thinking has opened the door in favor of NW Cabin crew. The least they will get is DOH...the most (as a result of NO UNION) is a ratio slotting from the NMB, which will most likely favor NW based on past rulings, relative long haul route structure per group of FAs. NW has the most long haul (transpacific) which translates to highest pay generated ensuring NW FAs do not lose relative pay position had NW stayed independent, that will mean some Junior NW crew will be slotted senior to some Delta crew...as in US/AWA. This is the result of 60% listening to Delta lying to them, leading them to believe that Delta was somehow going to "take care" of them as in the past. Fooled ya! (as they snicker in the DL/NW boardroom)
That was the FIRST round of "divide and conqur" lessons by their new former NW masters.
As the largest Union (Cabin Crew) on the New Delta property...NW/Delta would have had no choice but to negotiate prior to a merger. Otherwise, it would have been guaranteed Merger Hell!
Now, we will see how many drones continue to vote on being the worst paid/benefits of the majors because they believe in "a direct relationship to poverty and stupidity".
from a compensation standpoint and ability to secure relative prior, I do agree with portions of your post.
unfortunately it appears some were more focused on seniority issue and DOH policy(which is relevant) as priority(at that time) instead
of attempting to secure at least equal to the pilot group regarding percentages when the opportunity was available, this may have been a mistake(focusing solely on a seniority policy and creative integration ideas instead of compensation/work rules/D.O.H. in writing) when guaranteed arbitration is now the law. minus a union contract and upon closing the Flight Attendant group will need to have the longevity pay steps increased and at least a 15 percent increase of pay rates over a 5 year period present to remotely consider the idea of non-unionization on top of the 3 percent. For example, a 17 year longevity pay step with maximum payrate of $50.00 for starters right off the bat including a respectful integration of seniority that acknowledges full length of service in a job classification (D.O.H).
unfortunately it appears some were more focused on seniority issue and DOH policy(which is relevant) as priority(at that time) instead
of attempting to secure at least equal to the pilot group regarding percentages when the opportunity was available, this may have been a mistake(focusing solely on a seniority policy and creative integration ideas instead of compensation/work rules/D.O.H. in writing) when guaranteed arbitration is now the law. minus a union contract and upon closing the Flight Attendant group will need to have the longevity pay steps increased and at least a 15 percent increase of pay rates over a 5 year period present to remotely consider the idea of non-unionization on top of the 3 percent. For example, a 17 year longevity pay step with maximum payrate of $50.00 for starters right off the bat including a respectful integration of seniority that acknowledges full length of service in a job classification (D.O.H).
Oh where to begin? How about most importaint. Yes, Mr. Busdriver you do fly the plane, but I the mechanic certify it for flight. Without my sign off you can't leave the gate. Without those gate agents nobody would get on the plane. Without those ramp guys there would be no baggage or money making cargo in the belly. Without the F/A's in the back we could only fly boxes. Without the Res agent we would have a lot less butts in the seats. Then there are all those back office folk. The ones that do the flight plans, crew assignments, maintnenace planning, marketing. Without these other people you may still be able to fly the plane but for what purpose?
Next up, largest hits. I don't think so. So you took some pay cuts and a few were on furlough for a while. Yes that sucked. Guess what? The rest of the company had the same problems. From the mechanic world we took a big pay cut which we still haven't gotten back. Also many took the 100% paycut. Ask the former DL mechanics in DFW, TPA, MIA, PBI, ORD, JAX, PHX, PDX, MCI, ANC, HOU, SAN, and even ATL. Many of these good mechanics did not want to leave DL, but they didn't have many choices. It was either move to a few slots at real expensive cities or go out the door. Similar happenings played out in most other workgroups.
Do I think the pilots deserve the new contract? Of course, but not because of your ill conceived thought that the pilot group is the most importaint. They deserve it for being the smartest to negotiate for it.
Dalmd88, Most guys I know do not take for granted the great group that support the airplane flying. There are some ego filled uniforms that are way out of touch. As a pilot......thank you for all you do. As you said and I believe......"We could not do our job without you doing yours." All for one and one for all. Regards,
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
I saw two types of pie-lots crossing the NWA AMFA picket line, one actually walked through the picket, while the rest scurried 3 doors up or down.
Which are you?
B) xUT
UAL Tech,
People in general may find
your comments more helpful in the future if you include relevant information instead of
attempting to insulate others from expressing their own opinions. you may find that your message will not get lost in the process when you direct your concerns in a more positive light and stay on topic.
People in general may find
your comments more helpful in the future if you include relevant information instead of
attempting to insulate others from expressing their own opinions. you may find that your message will not get lost in the process when you direct your concerns in a more positive light and stay on topic.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Dignity,
Thanks for your insight.
I believe that my ‘message’ is pretty clear and on the general topic (as much as anyone else here is). If you are looking for me to ‘somehow’ put this situation with DL&NW in a positive light and start up the ‘Koom-by-ah’ in elation of people getting stock instead of cash, then you have not been following the industry, much less my posts.
And if you have not noticed, I do not GAS to appease the general populace. If they are too ignorant not to be able to differentiate lies/truth/satire then I do not see that as my problem.
Too many people are spoiled in this world and need a hugg where a good kick in the a$$ might be a better approach.
People do not learn from the mistakes of the past, so I am here to remind them when I can.
B) xUT
QA4Jet-A
Veteran
I have to agree with UT on this one. He is 'Nobody's Fool'. Dignity, although your inspiring in-sight and well placed words show you speak eloquently and without a doubt, smart, educated and experienced, somewhere in this crazy Industry, UT just 'Tells it like it is'!Dignity,
Thanks for your insight.
I believe that my ‘message’ is pretty clear and on the general topic (as much as anyone else here is). If you are looking for me to ‘somehow’ put this situation with DL&NW in a positive light and start up the ‘Koom-by-ah’ in elation of people getting stock instead of cash, then you have not been following the industry, much less my posts.
And if you have not noticed, I do not GAS to appease the general populace. If they are too ignorant not to be able to differentiate lies/truth/satire then I do not see that as my problem.
Too many people are spoiled in this world and need a hugg where a good kick in the a$$ might be a better approach.
People do not learn from the mistakes of the past, so I am here to remind them when I can.
B) xUT
QA4Jet-A,
sometimes, too much assertiveness can be just as, if not more, detrimental to a cause or belief when combined with aggressiveness exacerbated by lack of basic courtesy one can lose the whole message even if its telling it like it is..but I fully understand what you are implying.
thank you for the kind words.
I hope you have a nice evening.
sometimes, too much assertiveness can be just as, if not more, detrimental to a cause or belief when combined with aggressiveness exacerbated by lack of basic courtesy one can lose the whole message even if its telling it like it is..but I fully understand what you are implying.
thank you for the kind words.
I hope you have a nice evening.
QA4Jet-A
Veteran
and sometimes complacency or not knowing the facts can be as damaging as well. When someone knows, and/or chooses not to, that is their problem. When others, outside of the box, but have been in a similiar 'box', make a point from experience to share with others, so they may be spared the grief, I find that a welcome 'point of view'. If it is ignored, so be it. Any way you cut it, on this Board, you'll always find an arguement... siily as they may be. Getting back on topic, All groups are needed to make an Airline work and they have to work together. With this looming merger, I would encourage everyone, to get your 'Tude' in order b/c there will be changes. Whether you like them or not, it is inevitable, so deal with it and not Biatch! Good Luck to you all, both DL & NW. Just don't get so crazy you run my tiny FL airline off ATL property, please? I have a mortgage payment and a kid in College.
h34r: and I need to eat too. Dignity, Have a splendid Evening as well
QA
