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Effect of JetBlue's enterence to the PIT market

Talking with the US1 & US2 regulars yesterday on US1015/US259 & US733( LGA/PIT ), its the same old loyalty story due to built up miles and the inconvenience of JFK into Manhattan. So I dont think US has to worry much about losing market share to B6 in this market other than a few college kids looking for a cheaper fare.

Talking to a few former US employees that went to B6 over at JFK their JFK/BOS flights have been running half full with heavier loads on Friday and Sundays. Once again not too many business customers.
 
You don't "understand" anything... What you are saying is you have yours now..forget what happened 30 years ago. This is today and people that live in your neighborhood are being beat down and you could care less. your day will come...and the tears and worry will hit you because you thought you were better than everyone else, you think you are going to hop right back into another industry with no problem, good luck. Usairways used to have 24 seats in first class too sfo for all the wunderkinds to the silicon valley...where are all those snobs now???huh...guess they were sold to the lowest bidder. Man I hope this doesn't happen to you.


You're mighty arrogant to think no one understands. I never said I didn't care. You obviously DON'T read the posts properly and then fly off the handle and post a nonsensical reply.

This thread was discussing the entrance of B6 into PIT and yet again a US employee turned it into how much management has screwed us over and is giving away the store by having cheap fares.

Don't you guys get it?? It's not the customers fault for looking for the cheapest airfare. YOUR BOSSES created this fiasco with a multi-tiered pricing. Am I going to buy those cheap flights? You bet your sweet behind I will. But I also pay a hell of a lot more when I have to fly last minute for work.

And as for not being able to land on my feet......let me give you my personal story for all to read on here.

I am a Radiologic Technologist. I graduated in 1985. I trained and wanted to remain in PIT since this is my home. PIT although having some of the most reknown hospitals in the country is also one of the LOWEST paying markets for medical personnel. I got a job after graduating making $6.63. How much did a flight attendant make in the 1980's/1990's? A lot more than me. I moved myself up the career ladder until I now have a job that is paying equal or better than your pilots. And YES, if it all came to a crashing end tomorrow I COULD and WOULD land on my feet. You see I am still a Rad Tech and I can get a job anywhere in this country. Would I be making the amount of money I'm making now? Yes.....with lots of overtime.

So STEWBEAR.....maybe you should read thoroughly before you pop off another stupid reply post.
 
Trvlr64, I'm very well knowledged on the Ailine Marketing 101 program thank you. I'm glad you love shopping at Wal-Mart. I'm sure you like getting paid a FAIR wage and can pay your mortgage...that's all we wanted and NOT 1980's wages. Soon we are going to hand out smiley face stikers on the airplane to make you all feel at home! I recently had a lady ask me..."Since when do I have to pay 10 bucks for my meal, I simply said since you paid $49 bucks for you ticket!!! Again, thanks for the brush up on airline marketing, I feel better now knowing we are making pax happy with these cut throat prices!! Think about it trvlr, it cost you about $35-$40 bucks to fill your tank in your car and for anoter 20 bucks you can go to BOS in a little over an hour on a 30 million dollar airplane.

Your logic is tainted. WN has industry leading wages, can get the passengers to their destinations on the above fare profitable. This competition is what make this country great. WN employees win, stockholders win, and most importantly the customer/citizens win. The problem simply is not the "walmart' issue but the management/unions of your airline
 
mrman...better do your research. They being SWA have admitted, if it weren't for fuel hegeing that is running out by the way...SWA would be losing money. Hedgeing is what keeps them in the black Then those high salaries will be a liability! Your comparing two different animals, mutilpe type aircraft, international and travel agency fees. SWA is already raising fares. Again, as they lose their fuel hedge the profits will diminish. JetBlue is starting to lose money already and will continue to lose as their fleet and work force ages. They lost 42 million the last quarter...you just can't keep giving the service away. My theory ISN'T tainted...you have to compare apples and apples. I hope someone with the numbers, and there out there can post what happens to SWA as the hedgeing goes away...it's not magic!! Yes SWA had the resources to hedge and that has made a huge difference but like I said, the hedgeing is running out and thier fuel cost will start to climb. Is that being tainted. BoeingBoy, do you have the numbers on SWA and what they would make/lose without the hedgeing?
 
mrman...better do your research. They being SWA have admitted, if it weren't for fuel hegeing that is running out by the way...SWA would be losing money. Hedgeing is what keeps them in the black Then those high salaries will be a liability!

When will you guys understand that WN charges low fares because THEY CAN with the hedges???

As the hedges run out you will see fare increases to offset the increase in costs.

Does the fare increases of last week ring a bell?


The whole hedging program was all about knowing as much as you can about your fixed costs as far out in the future as possible to enable a profitable operation over the long haul.
 
I could look them up in their report, but the point of the numbers is that if everything else stayed the same, taking the hedges away would have resulted in a loss for WN.

As you mentioned, WN is already taking steps to offset the decrease in hedges, so arguing that they should be viewed thru the "everything else remaining the same" lens is somewhat futile.

A more accurate picture of the future can be found by looking at non-fuel CASM, where WN still has a cost advantage over US - 6.57 vs 7.51 cents in 4Q05 (the same applies to B6, at 4.75 cents). Given that, they can still make money at lower fares than US even if we have the same fuel cost net of hedges.

That is the challenge US faces - either find a way to lower non-fuel CASM or achieve a big enough revenue premium to offset the higher costs or some of both. If that can be accomplished, we can compete with WN (or B6).

Jim
 
It's called "let the game begin".

Jetblue has a solid product and very good reliability. Yes they are having some teething troubles with the E190 and JetBlue will hold a flight for connections vs leaving the passengers behind.. Thats policy.

Remember LCC had the same teething problem with the E170 and the F100.. Its a bump to get across thats all.

It is all about cost. The cost of doing business. Right now JetBlue's cost of doing business is quite a bit lower than LCC's. It's a simple as that.


LCC is going to lower its fares on LGA-PIT flights to levels competitive to JBLU and keep the lion's share of the high yielding traffic (Manhattan business types ain't trecking to JFK -- much less to fly on a very unreliable airline -- unless the price is significantly less). JBLU will get the dregs. One analyst said last week that 17 out of JBLU's last 20 new routes were unprofitable. If this isn't "number 18," I'll be shocked.

JBLU arguably has a better shot on the BOS-PIT run, but I also doubt that route will be profitable. LCC has a vast schedule advantage over JBLU (and might now add even more seats), and combined with ff loyalty, it will assuredly achieve a large yield advantage over JBLU. So my guess is unprofitable route 19.
 
Trvlr64, I'm very well knowledged on the Ailine Marketing 101 program thank you. I'm glad you love shopping at Wal-Mart. I'm sure you like getting paid a FAIR wage and can pay your mortgage...that's all we wanted and NOT 1980's wages. Soon we are going to hand out smiley face stikers on the airplane to make you all feel at home! I recently had a lady ask me..."Since when do I have to pay 10 bucks for my meal, I simply said since you paid $49 bucks for you ticket!!! Again, thanks for the brush up on airline marketing, I feel better now knowing we are making pax happy with these cut throat prices!! Think about it trvlr, it cost you about $35-$40 bucks to fill your tank in your car and for anoter 20 bucks you can go to BOS in a little over an hour on a 30 million dollar airplane.

Fluf:

You may be well knowledged in Airline Marketing but perhaps less so in Airline Economics. The 1980's wages you refer to are the reflection of the industry market correction that has occurred. Your posting suggests an entitlement mentality. The term FAIR wage is relative. Let me educate you on how economics works. There are more people in the market place that are willing to do your job for a lower wage today. It is what it is. If your new wage inhibits your ability to make the mortgage, then guess what? You live in a market environment that allows you to re-choose. Additionally, I would hardly compare the Jet Blue customer experience to that of Walmart. Jet Blue, quite honestly, offers a superior product at a lower price. You seem to resent people who shop for the best price. So tell me. Do you pay a gasoline premium at Shell or Chevron whenever you fill up your tank, or do you shop for the lowest unleaded in your neighborhood? Where you are off the mark here, is that you expect to be paid the same wage that you once were, performing the same job you always have done, while the industry marketplace (and most importantly, the revenue environment) has shifted. Unfortunately, the revenue environment is marketedly different today and no longer permits your airline to pay you what you deem a FAIR wage. And it's not that I don't feel your pain, because I have suffered the same effects of the market correction as you have. You can either adapt to the new market realities and make re-adjustments in your career choice, or you can go to your grave bitter and resentful. For myself, I am choosing to adapt to the new world. And for the record, I have never walked into a Walmart in my life. But I do shop around for the best VALUE, which for most consumers, equates to the best quality product at the lowest price. Just some food for thought...
 
It's almost certainly the case that PIT-BOS is not being priced relative to US Airways' costs but instead to maximize profitability. The fares are so egregiously high, and so far as I know there's no competition. This is truly an example of a market where US Airways is utterly screwing its customers.

Be interesting to know whether US Airways would have reduced pricing eventually in the absence of competition (in line with Scott Kirby's east coast fare lowering initiative). We'll never know now.

So I guess the question becomes who to blame for this situation? The customer that see's someone else offering a lower fare? The lower cost carrier for having lower costs? US management that's been unable to achieve significantly lower costs despite two trips to BK and the resulting $3 billion plus per year in cost reductions?

Jim
 
I have worked hard to always be prepared for changes, keeping my skills relevant in the market, and producing value for my employer.

And that, ladies and gentlemen (like it or not) is the kind of thinking that is required to succeed in the labor market today. Refreshing post, Tech Boy. :up:
 
LCC is going to lower its fares on LGA-PIT flights to levels competitive to JBLU and keep the lion's share of the high yielding traffic (Manhattan business types ain't trecking to JFK -- much less to fly on a very unreliable airline -- unless the price is significantly less). JBLU will get the dregs.

What planet are these people on?

I'll take JFK at rush hour any day of the week over LGA. Trains are wonderful things. It's not a matter of cost (ye old firm has ye old car service contract in NYC)--it's a matter of time. In the post-airtrain world (and in the absence of a real water shuttle these days to LGA), JFK is often the quicker option. The LIRR+airtrain move has one from Manhatten to JFK in about 40 minutes regularly. Try that in a cab going to LGA at rush hour..

Further, a third of the US schedule is RJs.

As an aside, anyone going anywhere more than about 1500 miles out (or whatever the exact size of the LGA perimeter) is trekking to LGA or JFK in any event. It happens, unless you want to stop at PIT, ORD, CVG, DFW, ATL, PHL, CLT, etc to get west.
 
You're mighty arrogant to think no one understands. I never said I didn't care. You obviously DON'T read the posts properly and then fly off the handle and post a nonsensical reply.

This thread was discussing the entrance of B6 into PIT and yet again a US employee turned it into how much management has screwed us over and is giving away the store by having cheap fares.

Don't you guys get it?? It's not the customers fault for looking for the cheapest airfare. YOUR BOSSES created this fiasco with a multi-tiered pricing. Am I going to buy those cheap flights? You bet your sweet behind I will. But I also pay a hell of a lot more when I have to fly last minute for work.

And as for not being able to land on my feet......let me give you my personal story for all to read on here.

I am a Radiologic Technologist. I graduated in 1985. I trained and wanted to remain in PIT since this is my home. PIT although having some of the most reknown hospitals in the country is also one of the LOWEST paying markets for medical personnel. I got a job after graduating making $6.63. How much did a flight attendant make in the 1980's/1990's? A lot more than me. I moved myself up the career ladder until I now have a job that is paying equal or better than your pilots. And YES, if it all came to a crashing end tomorrow I COULD and WOULD land on my feet. You see I am still a Rad Tech and I can get a job anywhere in this country. Would I be making the amount of money I'm making now? Yes.....with lots of overtime.

So STEWBEAR.....maybe you should read thoroughly before you pop off another stupid reply post.
Uh...you don't know what I do for a living...and I wish you the very best that outsourcing can provide...
 
Uh...you don't know what I do for a living...and I wish you the very best that outsourcing can provide...


Guess you don't know that medical professionals can't be outsourced.

And more proof from you with another nonsensical reply

THANKS!
 
BUT YOUR CUSTOMERS do keep your airline in BUSINESS. I suggest you take your displeasure of how your airline is run to the people it matters to
Some times you have to pressure management to get what you want. That is were you come in to play.
 

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