Do I Sense Frustration Here?

[Nightwatch]

The #### afl/cio (of today) has as much force as a piss ant.

There is your #### IAM mantra...........
'I will roll over if provoked'............

That's right dipshit, now you get it.

Does this make you feel better to know that original AAers are getting a**fucked as well?

Do your parents know you speak like this?

 

[Hackman]

Buck, here's a newsflash for you. If any of us at MCIE are left next time concessions are sought, we'll vote YES at 100%, just a little going away present from me to you!


Sounds like some Nightbitch frustration here. Remember the twu saved 12000 jobs, and don't forget it. :huh:

 

[Nightwatch]

Oh, did I mention I was only kidding? If we can't get 150% then we're not really giving it our all.

We're not frustrated, you fried our seniority years ago. We're ready to be your family members as promised!

Good point on the job losses, perhaps BK would have been the smarter move, then Stewart could go weld horse shoes for a living.

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh, did I mention I was only kidding? If we can't get 150% then we're not really giving it our all.

We're not frustrated, you fried our seniority years ago. We're ready to be your family members as promised!

Good point on the job losses, perhaps BK would have been the smarter move, then Stewart could go weld horse shoes for a living.

[post="199156"][/post]​

So if AA had went into BK then we would be out of a job? Come on, get real, both UAL and USAIR are still flying and neither of them fly as many people as AA.

Dont you realize that while it might be, might I say, possible that any one carrier may shut their doors its extremely unlikely that all three would within a short period of time. Just look back to 2001 when Bush told the mechanics as UAL that they could not strike because if an airline as big as UAL ceased operations it would have a negative impact on the economy. If the Airtrans, Jet Blues and the SWAs are already flying at max load factors where would everyone else go?

The fact is we have been duped. Execess capacity? Where is it, load factors are higher now than they were during the go-go nineties. Competition from low fare carriers, ok, but how much capacity do they have?

You claim to be an oldtimer, well havent we seen low fare start ups before? Remember Laker, Capitol,Peoples Express? Didnt they say the same things then as they are now? "Oh. but this is different." BS, the only difference is that none of the unions are willing to fight.

They certainly are not working together. The fact is that the TWU is looking to take over union representation in this industry. Maybe thats the real reason why the IAM is considering leaving the AFL-CIO. They will lower wages and shatter work rules to work along with the carriers. They will expand the use of Part Timers-another TWU first, because by having part timers you increase the dues revenue with the same amount of production. Then they will claim that they have "saved" or "created thousands of new jobs". They will stand before the AFL-CIO and brag about "all the new union members" they have created, leaving out the fact that they have decimated the living standards of airport workers.

The TWU will do for airline workers what they have done for workers at Triangle and Ogden. If you want to see our future with the TWU just look at what they have done at those two places over the last twenty years. One look at them and you can see that the graph of mechanics pay vs inflation is leading us to them.

The fact is the TWU is working with companies to get more members. Workers become TWU members because it is the union of choice of employers, not workers. We all must boot out the TWU. It doesnt matter whether you are a mechanic, baggage handler, stock clerk, agent, flight attendant or fueler, if you want a future that includes good pay and benifits you must get rid of the TWU. Get a card for AMFA, the AGW or even, if they do actually leave, the IAM, but one thing is certain, THE TWU MUST GO!

 

[Nightwatch]

Actually Bob, the trend of our industry is to have us all go, TWU and AMFA.

You miss that 31K/yr the awful TWU paid you? The TWU wasn't that bad then now was it? Or are you for sale?

 

[Drippy Quill]

This bulletin board is nothing more than a disgrace to the profession of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians.

The lack of moderation should not be blamed, because true professionals should able to debate issues without MOM and DAD having to control your behavior.

No wonder the webmaster moved this group away from the main information.

I am disgusted with the content of this bulletin board.

That is my two cents worth for the evening.

"""""Ear Plugs are in, now go ahead and sling the mud you fools"""""

[post="199128"][/post]​

That's right dipshit, now you get it.

Now that's a riot. Davey yells about professionalism and then proceeds to use vulgar language without being modersted...HAHAHA!!!

 

[aafsc]

I can understand the anger at the AFL-CIO by some people here; the decimation occuring and the AFL-CIO seems non-existant to say the least. I'm not an A&P but I have been reading these debates. I have an honest question for the AMFA supporters. If AMFA accepts (along with the other unions) the UA proposals and UA survives and Delta quickly follows suit (They are non-union) and AA says we have to have the same what do you think should be done at AA? Even the most militant unionist, has to know AA can't compete with the pensionless UA and Delta, whose employees will be making anywhere between 30-40% less along with massives layoffs at UA. Just a question.

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually Bob, the trend of our industry is to have us all go, TWU and AMFA.


You miss that 31K/yr the awful TWU paid you? The TWU wasn't that bad then now was it? Or are you for sale?


Well first of all the members of Local 562 paid me not the International. Its the members money right? It was $28k not $31, the other monies were for travel expenses. That year there was a lot of lost time due to the fact that even though we had two people off the clock(who are now both International officers, Robert Gless and Levere Deane), being paid by the company, myself and Frank Demarinis, who were not, were doing all the meetings. As Frank used to say Bobby wanted the title but not the job. In the end we both took a big hit off our retro checks because we lost so much time off the clock.

Gless, who got a full retro check for 40 hours every week wanted a "retro" check on his Presidents premium! Gless' pay by the way was $850 per month salary plus a 10% over the highest paid override, or around another $1200 on top of the $850, plus his 40 hours from the company without ever punching in.

I admit that it was a lot of lost time, and at one point Levere Deane sent out an E-mail complaining about the finances. Here was my reply;

Deane;
There is no doubt that our finances are at a very low point at present.
The costs associated with negotiations and arbitration have definitely
drained the treasury. However the biggest expenses we have are salaries and
lost time. As of September we have spent $92990 in Salaries and another
$76727 in Lost Time. The total comes to $169717 out of a total net receipts
of $220,250. Approximately 45% of our total income goes towards Salaries
alone. While Lost time hours are accounted for Salaries are not. Salaries
are collected as a bonus for accepting a union position regardless of
whether anything is done for the members or not. Combined salaries and lost
time account for around 80% of our total expenses once payroll taxes are
included.
Therefore, in light of the fact that we are all receiving a nice increase in
wages, I propose that we slash all officers pay by around 50%,Section
Chairmen by 25% and stewards pay by around 30%.

Proposed New Rates;
Presidents Monthly salary and premium(160hrs)= $839.40=24hrs pay per month +
40/week(from company)
VP=$400=12hrs pay per month +40hrs per week (from company)
Treas,Rec SEC= $400=12hrs pay per month
Sect Chairmen = $200=6hrs pay per month
Shop Stewards= $250/QTR=7hrs pay per Qtr.

This would reduce our costs significantly, $38000/year.

Broken down into hours the members will be paying (before lost time);
President = 184/hrs per month
Vice President =172/hrs per month
Treas& Rec Scy =12/hrs per month= total 24hrs
Sect Chairman =6/hrs per month= total 42hrs
Shop Steward =2.3 per month= total 58.3hrs
Total monthly hours = 480
Hours of top two officers= 356= 75%

Naturally, since most of the time before lost time is given to the President
and VP, they should carry the largest workload. They MUST be in close
communication and work cooperatively. This can help reduce lost time, and
provide our members with the services they are paying for.

Lost time could also be reduced by sharing the 80 hrs a week that the
company gives to the local. Frank , Jimmy and myself use most of the lost
time. If we worked it out where one day a week the President and the VP
worked the shift of Frank, Jimmy or myself that would save $24000 a year in
lost time. It would also keep your licenses current and allow you to work
and talk to members in both Stations.
These two measures alone would save us $62000 per year or $5000/month. With
that kind of money we could send two officers or stewards every month to the
Meany institute for training, conduct more in depth training for our
stewards at meetings with professional educators, have social events such as
Union picnics, retirement dinners, have a professional looking newsletter
that is not all dumped on Jimmy and perform more services to our members.
What do you think?

[post="199432"][/post]​

 

[Drippy Quill]

Wait a minute Owens...you lied...you stated you made $800/mo., now we see otherwise. Good job NW!..another proven liar.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wait a minute Owens...you lied...you stated you made $800/mo., now we see otherwise. Good job NW!..another proven liar.

[post="199676"][/post]​

I believe that one of you guys brought up the $800 a month. I was paid $800 a month as treasurer, and I also was paid for lost time.
Nice try.

 

[Bob Owens]

I can understand the anger at the AFL-CIO by some people here; the decimation occuring and the AFL-CIO seems non-existant to say the least. I'm not an A&P but I have been reading these debates. I have an honest question for the AMFA supporters. If AMFA accepts (along with the other unions) the UA proposals and UA survives and Delta quickly follows suit (They are non-union) and AA says we have to have the same what do you think should be done at AA? Even the most militant unionist, has to know AA can't compete with the pensionless UA and Delta, whose employees will be making anywhere between 30-40% less along with massives layoffs at UA. Just a question.

[post="199453"][/post]​

Well does UA have Junior Fleet Service clerks?

The fact is that the TWU has set overall costs that even with our pension intact, which only comes out to around $3000 per worker per year, puts us at the bottom. They have to lower their costs to compete with us, not the other way around. Even if the other guys lose their pension the loss of our holidays and one week of vacation still gives AA a competative edge over the others (thats over $5000 per year per worker).

Have you read about the SEIUs drive to reorganize the labor movement? Read into it, listen to what they say about the fact that there are too many unions representing the same types of workers, that we need to consolidate.

Does it make sense?

Do you think that the leaders unions like the TWU, IAM and IBT would be willing to do that? Even if it meant that some of them would have to give up their six figure salaries and work under the conditions they put in place?

The idea is sound, as we push for AMFA you should try and consolidate the rest of the ground workers into the AGW. Go to the-agw.org

Good luck!

 

[aafsc]

Well does UA have Junior Fleet Service clerks?

The fact is that the TWU has set overall costs that even with our pension intact, which only comes out to around $3000 per worker per year, puts us at the bottom. They have to lower their costs to compete with us, not the other way around. Even if the other guys lose their pension the loss of our holidays and one week of vacation still gives AA a competative edge over the others (thats over $5000 per year per worker).

Have you read about the SEIUs drive to reorganize the labor movement? Read into it, listen to what they say about the fact that there are too many unions representing the same types of workers, that we need to consolidate.

Does it make sense?

Do you think that the leaders unions like the TWU, IAM and IBT would be willing to do that? Even if it meant that some of them would have to give up their six figure salaries and work under the conditions they put in place?

The idea is sound, as we push for AMFA you should try and consolidate the rest of the ground workers into the AGW. Go to the-agw.org

Good luck!

[post="199946"][/post]​

Thanks for the reply. You brought out some interesting numbers. I share your opinions on the AFL-CIO because at EAL they were no help at all.