DL's schedule from DAL/DFW post Wright

[commavia]

Anyone with more than a "pea brain" can clearly see that these 6 flights per day to ATL, and this "25% increase," are all part of Delta's grand plan to "win in N. Texas" - which, of course, everyone knows is inevitable given how Delta has become #2, with 1/5 of the market, in NYC. Duh. I'm sure AA and Southwest are mortified. Some people just have no concept of all that the invincible, glorious Delta is capable of!

Now move along ... nothing to see here ... no need to go back and dig up actual quotes from mere days ago ..

[rolls eyes]

 

[Kev3188]

Or are you just so bent on winning that you have to create new qualifiers?... I've yet to see you or anyone else refer to "interior hubs" in the past few years of incessant postings about how DL owns the majority of traffic from DFW to its hubs.

Sometimes crafting a narrative requires crafting new language...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Anyone with more than a "pea brain" can clearly see that these 6 flights per day to ATL, and this "25% increase," are all part of Delta's grand plan to "win in N. Texas" - which, of course, everyone knows is inevitable given how Delta has become #2, with 1/5 of the market, in NYC. Duh. I'm sure AA and Southwest are mortified. Some people just have no concept of all that the invincible, glorious Delta is capable of!

Now move along ... nothing to see here ... no need to go back and dig up actual quotes from mere days ago ..

[rolls eyes]

no one said that in order for DL to win in N. Texas requires them to dominate the market as a whole.

I'm not sure why you find it so hard to admit that DL can win in N. Texas by dominating the markets it does serve when you also argue that is what AA will do from NYC.

The strategy of doing what you do well extremely well is precisely what AA wants to do in NYC and DL is doing in DFW.

If you can't serve the entire market, make sure you "win" in the part you do serve.


DL won't be the largest airline in NYC-CHI or DFW. They will have their foot solidly in the door (something AA isn't even choosing to do in every key market from NYC) and generate average fares comparable to or better than the incumbent carriers in those markets.

Considering that it is well established in the airline industry that the carrier at the larger hub should be the dominant carrier on all of the markets to/from that hub, it isn't a surprise that AA is larger than DL from DFW to MSP. what is surprising is that DL gets revenue premiums from DFW to its hub markets and that the size of AA's size advantage isn't larger.

If AA can do the same thing from NYC, then I would certainly say they win. But when DL manages to come into MIA-LGA and get 33% of the market at comparable average fares, then it clearly says there is power in the hubs DL has built in NYC that offsets much of the advantage that AA has enjoyed in NYC and at the other end of those routes for years.

it also appears that WN is headed at DAL in the direction of making sure it gets the best revenue from the relatively few flights it can rather than trying to build a "hub" on par with HOU or MDW or LAS.

WN will not be able to operate anywhere near the level of flights at DAL that it wants but it will make sure those that do operate are some of the highest yielding in the market and that WN competes successfully in the markets that competitors fly from DAL - which is exactly what they are doing with the exception of SFO.
 
 

Sometimes crafting a narrative requires crafting new language...

good morning and happy Sunday to you.

or again more importantly understanding the principles behind.

children memorize facts and can regurgitate them.

Adults and thinkers understand the principles behind how facts are generated.

Thinkers are capable of extrapolating what has happened in one situation and applying it to another.

the whole DAL discussion for me - is about looking at what has worked for DL in other similar markets and applying them to DAL.

As much as some people want to split hairs looking for details, demonstrating an understanding of why markets work is why I was completely accurate on key market-based issues including regarding why WN would pull down in ATL when everyone else was arguing otherwise.

Notably, I earned hundreds of red down arrows for stating my point. People here are doing the exact same thing here.

And yet I have been completely accurate with what WN has done in ATL and I will be accurate about what happens from DAL/DFW as well.

I have no problems with anyone jumping into discussions that are beyond their level of understanding and experience but when they attack people who clearly have demonstrated they understand not just the facts but also the principles, then it shouldn't be a surprise when the board degenerates into an unpleasant shouting contest.

Since you propose maturity - and often demonstrate it, the "grown-up" thing to do would be for some of the people here that have spent so much looking for "gotchas" against me to admit that they are the ones that didn't understand the principles about how the DAL/DFW situation would work and acknowledge that others have as evidenced by the way what DAL will look like is actually fairly predictable.

 

[swamt]

WorldTraveler, on 24 May 2014 - 8:58 PM, said:

.Why aren't you equally as able to remember all of swamt's predictions that WN would be getting the gates?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He does remember WT.  I have read thru this entire thread and you still seem to be confused and repeating.  I have never said SWA would get the gates.  I was simply hoping we would.  You keep claiming time and time again that you have said it was about Delta remaining at LF.  Wrong!!   It all started out in the beginning to be about the 2 gates at LF.  Delta wanted those gates just as bad as VA and SWA.  I NEVER said SWA would "get" the gates.  I did say that if it came down to DL and SWA then SWA would be awarded the gates.  I also said that if any other LCC or ULCC put bids in then SWA would be out of the front runner if only between SWA and DL.  Then the DOJ announced that Delta is not a good divested gate bidder and the gates will be going to a LCC.  THIS is where WT started changing his narratives and postings over to the fight for DL to stay in LF, and that this was what he had said all along, when nobody out here once said DL would be forced to leave LF, nobody...
 
I have only heard of AA and VA matching SWA's ticket prices at DAL and DFW, does anyone know if DL also matched??  Just curious.

 

[Force Majeure]

Here is some other evidence of the dominance and superiority of Delta:

1) Delta will be the dominant carrier flying the 717 out of the DAL market until they are not.

2) Delta is number 1 in the market of all air carrier operations out of all the markets where they are the only carrier flying that route.

3) Delta leads in every category measured for all Atlanta-based, network , legacy carriers

There are so many more, but I would sound like I was boasting if I continued.

 

[yoyodyne]

You have a serious mental issue or disorder.
 
You are a RETIREE, you dont work for them, you dont have an office anywhere on DL property, you are a former employee.
 
Wow, your statement says it all about you, go seek some help.
 
I am a withdrawn member paid shill of the IAM and have assisted assist them over the years and over on a daily basis almost 24hrs/day, here and there on many things, but mostly on obfuscating members on issues that are of concern to them, to ensure that the dues flow never stops.

 
 
There, I fixed it for you...

 

[Kev3188]

Thread over. Force Majeure wins.

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that is the antithesis of what I actually said.

It amazes me that you and others get so worked up about me proving myself right when you work so hard to prove me wrong.

DL will be the dominant airline in the markets from N. Texas that it serves. Nowhere have I said differently.

WN and AA will be the largest airports from the airports that they serve. never have I said differently.

DL does indeed have better metrics not just against ATL based airlines but for most metrics measured against the rest of the industry.

swamt,
of course you changed your tune that WN would get the gates when VX applied because you knew full well that any carrier other than WN would satisfy antitrust requirements where WN could not.

I said that DL would seek access to DAL and would seek to operate its entire schedule... no different than what you said that WN would seek the 2 gates.

WN didn't launch a PR campaign for those two gates, did it? of course they did.


but we can argue about what was posted on this forum for years.

The point remains that DL will remain the dominant airline from N. Texas (both airports) to ATL, the only DL interior US hub that WN chooses to serve.

AA's market share in N. Texas will fall. IN the markets that DL serves, DL will not only maintain its share but because of the LAX service will grow.

I am more than happy just as with the WN ATL thread to keep revisiting the topic precisely to prove that those who work so hard to prove me wrong are themselves wrong.

When the climate on this board changes to respecting that there might be people who know what they are talking about and others are willing to acknowledge it, then the discussion can move away from trying to prove oneself right.

I don't honestly have much expectation that the people who argue for maturity will actually demonstrate it themselves.

 

[Force Majeure]

Missed. The. Point. Entirely.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You missed the point from the beginning of the entire thread.

You tried to hijack the discussion and throw mud because you fail to admit that I got the essence of what DL would do at DAL right from the very first post - which we have now had 4 pages of people trying to discredit - and you, not me, missed the whole point.

 

[swamt]

Missed. The. Point. Entirely.

Yes he did.   Never "changed" my tune WT, and you know it.  E even pointed this out to you and provided the links and you seem to still claim that your right.  No wonder you missed the point entirely...

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, the point is that you and others continue to look for gnats on the backs of sheep in order to prove your point.

I have posted multiple times what DL's strategic goals were with relation to DAL and they have achieved them. WN can grow DAL somewhat in the future but DAL will be a much smaller operation than other WN "hubs" unless WN really pushes gate utilization much higher than their schedule suggests - which could well happen down the road.

I'm not interested in continuing to dissect hundreds of posts to argue who was right and who was wrong.

I started this thread to acknowledge that DL's plans for an expanded DAL operation are dead and yet you and a dozen other people want to turn the thread into an opportunity to discredit me precisely because you have focused on minute details instead of the big picture.

DL and WN are both achieving their strategic goals in N. Texas.

As I have repeatedly said, and you seem unable to accept because you want to argue about details is that WN will do very well at DAL and I am very happy for them and you and the opportunity that comes to them.

I agree with E and others that VX is not long for a long term position at DAL.

Accept the opportunity that DAL is providing WN, work hard to make it succeed, and get past your mindset of trying to prove someone wrong.


And there will be other opportunities come to light in the near future to confirm my overall assessment that DL will grow in N. Texas and the southwest.

 

[swamt]

Once again, another dodge.  LOL.  Keep going brother, just keep going...

 

[WorldTraveler]

the only dodge is that you can't admit that DL is succeeding at what it wanted to do at DAL, WN isn't willing to take on DL's DTW, MSP, or SLC hubs, and all of the bravado you have put forth doesn't change that DL will be at DAL.

WN will have to figure out to make the most out of the 16 gates it has. It must be a real burden to only have 80% of the gates at an airport; tell me what other airlines have had to carry such a horrendous burden of living with JUST 80% of the gates at one of their major hubs. What a cross WN has to bear!

And there will be more strategic moves that confirms that DL has multiple other ways to achieve their strategic objectives.

ps... don't call me brother while carrying that pitchfork around.

 

[swamt]

the only dodge is that you can't admit that DL is succeeding at what it wanted to do at DAL, WN isn't willing to take on DL's DTW, MSP, or SLC hubs, and all of the bravado you have put forth doesn't change that DL will be at DAL.

WN will have to figure out to make the most out of the 16 gates it has. It must be a real burden to only have 80% of the gates at an airport; tell me what other airlines have had to carry such a horrendous burden of living with JUST 80% of the gates at one of their major hubs. What a cross WN has to bear!

And there will be more strategic moves that confirms that DL has multiple other ways to achieve their strategic objectives.

ps... don't call me brother while carrying that pitchfork around.

the only dodge is that you can't admit that DL is succeeding at what it wanted to do at DAL
 
Delta did fail at what they originally set forth to do at DAL which was to be awarded 2 gates being divested by AA, period.  After this was settled (or at least realized) by you you reverted to campaign how Delta will remain at DAL, which not one single person has said they would not, so, therefore, Delta has not succeeded at anything at DAL.  They will continue (as far as I know) to run out of 1 gate at LF just like they always have.  
 
SWA also failed to get the 2 gates they set out to obtain.  But SWA will still have huge growth at DAL over the next few years.  Yes Delta added flights at DAL just like VA and SWA did for post W/A, they still never really succeeded for what they originally set out to obtain from the very beginning.  Not saying Delta is a failure over all here, just saying they failed to get the 2 gates they originally wanted therefore their original intent was not a success.
 
Now I know this was posted in another thread but it does have to do with this topic of growth at DAL.  Just pointing out the growth potential for SWA over the next few years which will be very successful for SWA in the future.  BTW, it will be AA that feels the most pressure from all of SWA's growth coming not Delta or VA.  Pretty sure all 3 airlines could very well coexist at LF, but the fare wars might be fun to watch. 
 
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