DL's schedule from DAL/DFW post Wright

[WorldTraveler]

You are a pathological liar, as post #3 (to which I responded) did not use the term "interior hubs."    Choose your words carefully or others will point out your inaccuracies.

 the only pathological behavior on here is the people with pea-sized brains who are hellbent on trying to prove someone wrong who was absolutely right about DL's strategy at DAL from the very beginning.

Maybe I am confused, but do you claim to be a lawyer?

If so, I always thought lawyers were those kinds of people who spent hours trying to make sure every statement was accurate and in context.

A computer can regurgitate data. Human beings are supposed to be capable of thinking which means understanding the context.

what you absolutely cannot stand is admitting that DL really does control the traffic from N. Texas to its hubs and will continue to do so. And DL gets revenue premiums for it.

Given that UA doesn't directly compete with DL in any of DL's DFW hub markets, UA's financial problems which are helping both AA and DL won't have any effect on DL's ability to maintain its revenue premiums from DFW.

DL achieved its strategic objective of ensuring that MSP and DTW are not served from DAL unless DL can be there while ensuring that DL remains the largest carrier from DAL/DFW to ATL.

Further, it will be obvious in a few years that you will have to admit that AA's decision o walk away from DAL was just as short-sighted as US' decision to give DL 125 slot pairs at LGA for the bargain basement price of $500,000 per pair. And that doesn't begin to measure the loss of market revenue that came with the reduced market position.

You have noted the stupidity of US' decision with the slot swap haven't you? '

DL was determined it wasn't going to pay the price for AA's decision to cobble together a massive domestic route system that still leaves new AA as the #3 US int'l carrier including across the Atlantic and the Pacific.

 

I don't need to "toss any city."

Like I said, show us one where the seat count was as small as DAL's to start with. Nobody's ever argued that DL's capacity wouldn't rise with the fall of the WA. But to tout this 25% as some sort of revolution is just silly. DL currently offers 250 seats/weekday. That's a bar so low you can almost trip on it.


Likewise, it should be obvious that just about everyone on this site "gets" the direction of the discussion.


Yep, so did I (and E175's). It's the right plane for the market. So what?

the 25% comment is not just about DAL. The 25% is about the combined DAL/DFW market. DL's capacity increase at DAL alone is 188%.

Now, tell me again, what airline of any size in any city has come up with capacity increases of either amount in any other city and in at a specific market in the US this year?

And, no, the 175 will not be at DAL. DL's service will be 6X 717 to ATL.


If you and others spent 1/10 of the time trying to understand the facts and read what was written as you do trying to prove me wrong, we could have a discussion.

But I really didn't have a whole lot of expectations that you (collective) could keep up.

thank you for proving me right yet again.

 

[Kev3188]

You're running a race by yourself. Good luck with that.

 

[eolesen]

I'll have to go find the link to the prediction, but WT claimed as recent as a month ago that DL's October Surprise would have them operating much closer to their 22 flight proposed schedule at Love Field than to than their current schedule... Oops.

After all the posturing and lawyering up, DL gained nothing at DAL except a single departure, which is more or less what I'd expected and said all along. They got to maintain their existing pattern of service and that's all.

I don't remember WN saying anything about launching MSP or DTW until they started lobbying for the two gates. I wouldn't say it's out of the question once they get their hands around the post-Wright impact at all the in-perimeter cities.

 

[eolesen]

I'm sure you are and we aren't surprised.DL will still be at DAL. Will still be the largest airline to its hubs from N. Texas, exactly the same type of situation that exists in Chicago and Houston.And let me know what other carriers are growing by 25% in one city.

  

Not entirely accurate (as usual).    Don't you ever fact check anything you post?   
 
According to the DOT, AA was the largest carrier of local traffic between DFW and LGA in the fourth quarter.    WN was the largest carrier of local traffic between DAL and ATL in the fourth quarter (yes, DL was the largest carrier between DFW and ATL, and that market was much larger than DAL).   
 
AA was the largest carrier of local traffic between DFW and both MSP and SLC.   
 
All of those cities are DL hubs, right?      
 
So only to ATL was DL the larger carrier of local traffic between N Texas and the DL hubs.

WT, never argue with an attorney....

Just man-up and admit you are wrong for a change. Isn't that what you like to tell everyone else you find caught up in a technicality?...

 

[WorldTraveler]

You're running a race by yourself. Good luck with that.

The real shame is that I showed you my play book and told you how we could both win but you chose to shred it, stomp on it, and then act surprised when you find yourself on the short end of a conversation that you and others tried to jump into and were not only ill-informed but motivated to participate in solely based on your desire to get even.

What I would really like is for you to really get serious about ditching your urge to prove me wrong so we could have decent conversations.

You can do it, Kev. And you can be a real leader.

But only if you want.

And when you lead, you might find that there are people who are willing to throw their weight behind the things that really matter to you.



 

I'll have to go find the link to the prediction, but WT claimed as recent as a month ago that DL's October Surprise would have them operating much closer to their 22 flight proposed schedule at Love Field than to than their current schedule... Oops.

After all the posturing and lawyering up, DL gained nothing at DAL except a single departure, which is more or less what I'd expected and said all along. They got to maintain their existing pattern of service and that's all.

I don't remember WN saying anything about launching MSP or DTW until they started lobbying for the two gates. I wouldn't say it's out of the question once they get their hands around the post-Wright impact at all the in-perimeter cities.

oh, you'll have no problem finding posts in which I said and supported that DL was fighting to get access to whatever was necessary in order to operate its 20 or so flights a day even though you'll also find posts saying the chance that DL would be able to launch all of those flights was slim.

Why aren't you equally as able to remember all of swamt's predictions that WN would be getting the gates?

He fought for what he thought was right for his company and I did the same for mine (yep 700 it is mine).

WN put out a press release saying the cities it would serve if it got the two extra gates. MSP, DTW, and a bunch of other carrier hubs were on it whether you remembered it or not.

DL did remember and that is precisely why they pushed to get those two gates and weren't willing to accept anything less than what they have until they knew they could defend the one DL interior US hub that WN chose to serve.

And DL's capacity at 660 seats/day is far more than 2X what DL operates today.

I will argue with anyone I choose, including someone who isn't smart enough to read an entire thread before jumping in to try and prove me wrong. His behavior on this thread is no different than someone who signs a contract while speed reading it and then whines 3 days later that there were points in there he failed to see.

The context was obvious and it was stated whether he bothered to read it or not.

He harmed his own credibility at being able to converse about a valid business topic - which he usually can do.

I'll admit when I am wrong. I'm not going to admit I am wrong because someone who claims to be intelligent enough to parse laws didn't bother to read what was written and then wants to argue that it was I that erred.

 

[Kev3188]

  


WT, never argue with an attorney....

Just man-up and admit you are wrong for a change. Isn't that what you like to tell everyone else you find caught up in a technicality?...

It'd be nice, but it won't happen. That would mean acknowledging that months of posts were wrong, or worse that several of us were all closer to what ultimately panned out.

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh, no.

I said that DL would fight to maintain its service at DAL. I'm sure you have forgetten the posts from those who touted that DL would be forced to leave DAL.

That is far from what is happening.

Sure, plenty of people softened their tone and admitted that DL would end up staying at DAL just as I acknowledged that DL would have a harder and harder time to be able to operate 20 flights/day.

WHAT NONE OF YOU GOT and what I repeatedly said is that DL's strategy from multi-city airports is to ensure that DL is the dominant carrier in every market that has competitive service to DL's hubs.

DL does indeed have the dominant market position from HOU and MDW to DL's interior hubs.

That is exactly the position DL will be in from DAL at least based on nonstop markets. DL will aggressively compete in the one DL interior US hub market (forgive me for repeating the qualifiers but I obviously have to do so because of certain people) that WN chose to serve from DAL.

Tell me where you or anyone else understood or responded to that principle.

you didn't.

you can try to argue about the microscopic dust mites all day long but even if you think you have found the "gotcha" post you can't put it in the proper context of the strategy that DL used - successfully.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 the only pathological behavior on here is the people with pea-sized brains who are hellbent on trying to prove someone wrong who was absolutely right about DL's strategy at DAL from the very beginning.

 
IIRC, that 'winning' strategy was an immenent lawsuit.  You wrote / lectured everybody in numerous diatribes about it, pinhead.

 

[WorldTraveler]

my lecture was about the tenses of verbs and the use of conditionality in the English language.

you slept through not one but multiple lectures while you dreamed about trying to find that "gotcha" post.

Not surprisingly, you came up empty handed when you woke up.

And DL will still be serving DAL competitively to the only interior US hub that WN has also chosen to serve from DAL.

Meanwhile, service to Chicago and DEN among other hubs for legacy carriers will go without a response at DAL.

You wanna guess in which of those markets WN will be the most and least successful?

 

[robbedagain]

ok kindly refer to the now closed thread of Delta Loads DAL Flights...   post nbr 1 by you WT   you clearly said
 
"6X daily service to ATL
 
5X daily to LAX plus LGA MSP and DTW"
 
"apparently Monday Oct 13th is a lucky day.    Delta already has loaded the schedule"
 
So if youre calling some a pathological liar,  May I suggest to you to Think Before  or Expect to get called out on it.........

 

[WorldTraveler]

and what is your point?

It is a factual post of the schedule that DL loaded months ago.

call me out for noting exactly the schedules that DL loaded?

you do realize that Oct 13 is the day the Wright Amendment falls? Same date that any carrier from DAL can extend flights.

double check who first used the term "pathological liar" and you'll see it is the same little lawyer boy who apparently has reading comprehension problems - or else was just as much looking for the "gotcha comment".

 

[robbedagain]

my point is  you claimed DL would have a lot of flights out of DL   but theyre gonna have just some  and not to all those cities  just ATL will see the flights

 

[eolesen]

.Why aren't you equally as able to remember all of swamt's predictions that WN would be getting the gates?

Maybe because I called that out as a non-starter when he brought it up?.... Unlike you, I don't find it necessary to restate my opinion over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

I'll admit when I am wrong. I'm not going to admit I am wrong because someone who claims to be intelligent enough to parse laws didn't bother to read what was written and then wants to argue that it was I that erred.

Uh, you didn't add the "interior" qualifier until your broad-brush statement was proven wrong. Instead of admitting that FWAAA was right, you just keep digging deeper.

Would it kill you to admit someone else knew a statistic that you didn't?

Or are you just so bent on winning that you have to create new qualifiers?... I've yet to see you or anyone else refer to "interior hubs" in the past few years of incessant postings about how DL owns the majority of traffic from DFW to its hubs.

Given the amount of network analysis I do and read as part of my day job, I'd have noticed that one, because nobody in the industry seems to use it as a title, either... Certainly, the scheduling people I know at various airlines don't make that distinction...

 

[700UW]

no, 700, you aren't part of the IAM or US. I AM part of DL and will be until I die.
 
He fought for what he thought was right for his company and I did the same for mine (yep 700 it is mine).

You have a serious mental issue or disorder.
 
You are a RETIREE, you dont work for them, you dont have an office anywhere on DL property, you are a former employee.
 
Wow, your statement says it all about you, go seek some help.
 
I am a withdrawn member of the IAM and have assisted them over the years here and there on things.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am retired, 700. You walked away and have no benefits other than the pension that anyone that sticks it out would get anyway.

You feel free to argue til the cows come home that other people don't have any connection to the company that they served but it is you who walked away, not me and not thousands of others.

but your little diatribe on the subject is just one more example where it is ok for you to argue your tangent and say it is ok but call someone else off topic.

I do give you credit, E, for being consistent in saying that DAL would have no effect on the N. Texas market and yes you have consistently said that about every airline that has tried to gain more space.

But obviously DL, VX, and WN all see that there is value in expanding from DAL and DL's experience from MDW -which AA doesn't serve - and DL's experience from HOU - where DL is the #2 airline behind WN - proves that DL understands the dynamics of multi-airport cities. IN fact, it is not restricted just to low cost carrier airports. While AA has reduced its service at EWR including to LAX and LHR, DL operates to all of its hubs and has added int'l service so that DL has its own metal in markets competitive from UA from UA's own hub.

Even though I have repeatedly stated the principles by which DL would compete at DAL, you have tried to downplay them... but at least you are probably one of the few that at least got the principles instead of trying to find the "gotcha" posts.

well almost.

My reference to "interior US hubs" what is the very first post on the thread.

Further, there was no reference to hubs before that sentence.

In order to come to the conclusion that I was referring to all hubs and not interior US hubs, anyone had to ignore what I wrote within the first 50 words of the thread in order to try to argue their point.

I have indeed used the term interior US hubs specifically since DL built LGA into a hub because I know full well that, even though DL serves LGA to every other hub that also has service by the hub carrier, DL is not the largest carrier in most of those markets.

DL in fact is the only carrier from LGA that has service to every hub market and that is the strength of what DL has done - not unlike what CO did at EWR and what AA chose not to do at LGA and JFK as it has pulled out of other carrier hub markets including IAH and ATL among others.

the market principles of how DL approached DAL were clear to anyone who understands the industry.

DL gained access to DAL to serve the markets which will have nonstop service to DL's non-coastal hubs. DL was determined to stay in there to fight for the right to serve those markets and has won.

by next summer when detailed public data will be available, it will be clear that DL not only has achieved its strategic objective of successfully defending its hubs while AA and UA will be left with smaller overall shares of the market to their key hubs and in AA's case, unable to cut the share loss because it gave up the right to compete in the key markets from its headquarters city.

and on top of that, DL will be larger from N. Texas because of the new service to LAX. The Ejets are a great way to get DL's foot in the door but if DFW-LGA, -ORD, and -MIA are any indication, DL will have 20+% share of each of those markets in time.

Even with a hub at DFW, DL didn't have that much share in those key markets including from NYC which is a far larger local market than DAL/DFW is.