DL expands SEA further with SEA-SFO flights

[Kev3188]

No, Kev, I am simply expecting you and 700 to be honest and complete in your arguments.

We are. That you disagree doesn't change that.
 

 
 

And I have NO PROBLEM if DL employees actually vote for a union.

Lol.
 

I am calling you on the carpet for your juvenile behavior regarding an obvious browser issue.  You perceived that accents were appearing in English but didn't bother to try to connect anything?

...And here we are at "flipping."

You just ticking off boxes, or what?
 
 Keep clutchin' those pearls if it makes you feel better.
 

Profit sharing is not a key item in compensation at all.
 
Salary, benefits and pension are way more important than profit sharing.
 
What happens when there is no profit?
 
What happens when the profit sharing is cut by 33% without any input or choice by the employees?
 
The flyer clearly states salary, is that too hard for you to comprehend?

It's certainly important. The problem is that it's variable, and therefore including it in a discussion about average base rates doesn't work.

 

[WorldTraveler]

well of course profit sharing is variable.... that is the point.  Your employer wants you and your colleagues to have enough financial skin in the game to work for the company's best interest.
 
profit sharing is not insignficant to those companies that provide it.  And let's remember that from the beginning, WN's compensation philosophy was based heavily on profit sharing.  It is comical that the IAM wants to exclude it since they negotiated it away at some of their biggest airlines even though DL is far from the only airline that pays it, union or not.
 
Give up your personal witch hunt, Kevin.
 
Accept the fact that you live in a dreamland based on your desire to see DL further unionized.    Your peers don't agree with you in the numbers necessary to even request an election.
 
If labor unions achieve it, that is fine.  But despite what you want to believe, there is no rational reason why any DL employee would walk away from what they have to pursue the deal that labor unions have negotiated at DL's most direct peers of AA, UA, and US. 
 
When you can accept that reality as pertinent to the discussion and not targeted at you personally, then we can probably talk rationally.  You have never demonstrated that you are capable of talking about an issue of business without attaching it to your emotions on your sleeves.

 

[700UW]

WN pays the highest salaries of any carrier and has the highest percentage of unionized workers and most consistent and profitable airline over the past 30 years.
 
The flyer clearly states SALARY.
 
But when it doesnt fit your criteria you claim its lies, false and misinformation, which it was and is not.
 
There he goes again Kevin, telling you that you live in a dreamland and give up your personal witchhunt, what a POS he is.
 
Yet he praises ALPA on the UA thread, hypocrite much WT?
 
See the difference is Kevin works at DL, you havent for years, there are two large grassroots efforts at DL to unionize, you know by current employees which you havent been in years.
 
You dont work the ramp, you dont work inflight, you dont interact with them on a daily basis, unless you are in the galley and breakrooms like you claim.
 
You are a bitter ex-employee who hates the facts that the current DL employees actually want a say in the workplace.
 
Thousands of cards have been signed and are currently being signed, so let those employees choose, you dont work there and you dont speak for them, but we all know you claim to in your posts, then deny it when called out on it.
 
The great thing is Kevin and his coworkers have a choice, you dont.

 

[WorldTraveler]

nope, I say have the integrity to include ALL of the data - and it doesn't matter if we are talking about WN or any other carrier.  Include health care premiums, include number of stations currently staffed AW and BW, include what the contract allows for outsourcing. 

INCLUDE IT ALL
 
If you don't include profit sharing, then have the intellectual honesty to say "does not include profit sharing which in year 2012 included X% for DL, Y% for AS. 
 
It doesn't matter where Kevin works. If the cards are there, an election will come.  They aren't there and thus no election has come. There is no secret process that Kevin has insight to and I or you or anyone else doesn't.
 
It is all very public. 
 
You and he want to exclude any voice you can that would speak the open and honest truth. 
 
There are no low information employees.   Everyone makes their own choices based on their preferences. 
 
Kev and you continue to clog the internet trying to convince a few low information employees (Kev's words, BTW) that the IAM has a better deal - but only because they don't have the guts to present accurate and complete data - so they resort to slicing and dicing - and failing to note things that really do matter for thousands of employees. 

 

[700UW]

How obtuse are you?

It clearly states SALARY, so are you implying current DL employees can't read and comprehend that it was just a salary comparison?

You are not open and no where near honest, get real.


You are the one who claimed the information was false, Glenn called you out to refute it and you didn't and couldnt.

You are the one who wants to silence anyone who doesn't think like yourself.

Why is it ok for RA and his team to have employment contracts and the rank and file can't according to you backward views?

Why are you touting ALPA on the UA thread and yet you criticize ALPA and anyone here wanting a union?

Which side of your mouth are you using to post?

 

[WorldTraveler]

no one said the rank and file can't have contracts.  They haven't voted for one.  You can't accept that DL employees know overwhelmingly what they have to do to have a contract but they consistently vote "not interested."
 
If you and the IAM were even halfway interested in the truth, you would disclose exactly what was included in  your calculations and what was excluded.
 
Again, you don't want to include full data because if you did, then the union comparison doesn't look near as appealing.
 
DL employees know better.
 
That is why you represent a losing cause. 

 

[Kev3188]

DL is far from the only airline that pays it, union or not.

Nobody's claimed otherwise.
 

 

Accept the fact that you live in a dreamland...

If only.
 

 

When you can accept that reality as pertinent to the discussion and not targeted at you personally, then we can probably talk rationally.  You have never demonstrated that you are capable of talking about an issue of business without attaching it to your emotions on your sleeves.

 
As noted earlier, that's the difference between you and many on here. I'm unabashedly pro labor, and wear it on my sleeve. So do others like 700, Robbed, etc. Others are firmly on the other side of the aisle, but do the same.

Only when you actually decide to be authentic, can we have a discussion.

'Course that assume one considers what you have to say as relevant, and wants to have a conversation...
 

The flyer clearly states SALARY.

Indeed.
 

But when it doesnt fit your criteria you claim its lies, false and misinformation, which it was and is not.

Also indeed.

When the flyer is titled "total compensation," but only includes base rates, he'll have a leg to stand on.
 

There he goes again Kevin, telling you that you live in a dreamland and give up your personal witchhunt, what a POS he is.

I'm used to it.
 
 

You are a bitter ex-employee who hates the facts that the current DL employees actually want a say in the workplace.

...Or desperate to maintain a link to the carrier he bailed out on...
 

Thousands of cards have been signed and are currently being signed, so let those employees choose...

He can't.
 

The great thing is Kevin and his coworkers have a choice, you dont.

We sure do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then convince your coworkers that the data the IAM puts out merits consideration. 
 
For five years since the merger, they haven't believed the unions.
 
If the cards are there a vote will be called.
 
And LOL if DL employees vote for a union, I support their choice AS A GROUP.
 
LOL

LOL

 

[Kev3188]

The data speaks for itself. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, as does the fact that tens of thousands of DL employees haven't voted for a new union - even when a vote was REQUIRED as part of the merger process.
 
Speak to your colleagues yourself if  you want to change it.

I won't be a part of the conversation but neither will 700 or robbed.

 

[robbedagain]

as for data... your data must be a faker too since you seem to say kev or 700 data is never true    you really think you know it all don't ya   guess what pal  no one knows it all but God.    you want everyone to believe your crap but when someone like 700 or kev or e put theirs out its all false   

 

[eolesen]

nope, I say have the integrity to include ALL of the data - and it doesn't matter if we are talking about WN or any other carrier.  Include health care premiums, include number of stations currently staffed AW and BW, include what the contract allows for outsourcing. 

INCLUDE IT ALL

...says the man who has in the past argued that

1) EWR didn't matter when discussing JFK & LGA,
2) DFW is a separate market from DAL,
3) Comparing WN with DL is invalid because WN isn't a legacy network carrier belonging to a global alliance...

In other words, it's A-OK to use slivers of data when it serves WT's purposes, but not for anyone elses.

 

[WorldTraveler]

nope, I have said to define how you are defining the market.
 
EWR is not in NY state.  It may be part of the NYC market but it is not in NY state.
 
and on an on.
 
 
Declare your caveats and then others can decide if they agree with them or not.
 
If the data is really that convincing, it can be shown regardless of the assumptions that are being made. 

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I am simply expecting you and 700 to be honest and complete in your arguments.

That is rich coming from you.

You are notorious for taking bits and pieces of content from sources and twisting them to fit your daily narrative. Of course even in doing that you almost always leave some back door qualifier in your post. This, so you can claim you never really meant what you posted when it turns out to be false. This especially when it is being interpreted as untrue from all but you and spectator, Sybil, and whoever else you have sitting next to you while alone at your computer.

 

[WorldTraveler]

then you and anyone else are welcome to challenge the data and facts that I use.
 
I find it laughable that you and Kev and 700 and robbed can all be on the same page but if anyone agrees with me, they have to be me using another sine.
 
Do you honestly think the world looks so much like you that there can be no other valid opinion other than your own?
Or is it that you (all of you) are really afraid of facing the whole truth so you resort to character assassination in order to try to win the debate?