District 141 Meets with United, Secures Wage Increases for Members Working Under Modified Contracts

[WeAAsles]

Sometimes in life you have to be pragmatic Kev. Being an anarchist is only good if you think your actions are going to have any chance at success.

I'm not seeing any success for the anarchist in this situation.

 

[Kev3188]

Being pragmatic means seeing the big picture and doing one's due diligence.

This may be a nice progression from what little they have now, but it's underpinned with a lot of potential unintended consequences.

 

[WeAAsles]

Being pragmatic means seeing the big picture and doing one's due diligence.
This may be a nice progression from what little they have now, but it's underpinned with a lot of potential unintended consequences.

Ok this was an interesting response Kev. The larger reason being that you still haven't answered the earlier questions that I posed to you. What are the more favorable alternatives that are readily available?

I'm assuming that you are FT at Delta? If the PT route is the possible outcome that you see for these people, then why aren't you yourself PT? You know the answer. Because the operation doesn't run on a fully PT basis. As T5 himself said. UAL tried to go that route and the operation or service fell apart. As he also said they were forced to bring his members back up to status because of that extreme overreach. Where did UAL see the benefit in attempting to run so many PT heads? There was none. No different then that it also doesn't benefit completely the Delta operation in many stations so there's no point in attempting it there either, is there?

Kev shockingly enough even Walmart has Full Time jobs you know.

But once again please provide me an answer to what you think is the better alternative for these members? If you have none, it really is ok to just say so.

 

[WeAAsles]

If it starts being unacceptable  gather  union cards DL will implement a ratio that's acceptable and there you go you'll have a cap or they will throw more money at you.

Worldport they can never have a cap because to have a cap you need an enforceable "Employment Contract" and the only way to get one in our industry with what we do is to join a Union. All Delta employees except the Pilots are at the whim of whatever Delta management feels is best for their operation and can implement any and all changes that don't violate State or Federal Laws. They are at whim and in some States at will employees.

That isn't the case at UAL where they do have an "Employment Contract" and soon maybe an improved one from what they currently have?

 

[Kev3188]

The "better alternative" is to demand one's NC take the time to craft solid contract language, instead of being intellectually lazy and then blaming the membership, because "they voted for it."

Nobody ever said UAL would be "fully" PT, but absent any sort of language, it's naive to think the company won't exploit that as much as possible.

A rolling hub might come out ok. A banked hub, not so much. Same story with line stations...

 

[700UW]

You are forgetting they are NOT in Section 6, and UA has stated see you in 2018 if the LIMITED negotiations changes are voted down.

So they have only seven stations protected.

Think people

 

[WeAAsles]

The "better alternative" is to demand one's NC take the time to craft solid contract language, instead of being intellectually lazy and then blaming the membership, because "they voted for it."
Nobody ever said UAL would be "fully" PT, but absent any sort of language, it's naive to think the company won't exploit that as much as possible.
A rolling hub might come out ok. A banked hub, not so much. Same story with line stations...

"Demand" ok. Explain to me how one demands something from their negotiating committee that has to also be approved by the company that ultimately holds the check book and also must approve those changes?

Ok now what happens if those "demands" are not met? What's the next step? Linger in talks for years maintaining the status quo? Tell me again what the status quo currently is for UAL members? 7 staffed Stations at the end of their current agreement right?

So maybe then these people would be better served by running that risk that the company is not going to implement that feature of their CBA once it reaches it's amendable date?

"Intellectually lazy" would imply at least in this case that the Union negotiators didn't ask for and were told in no uncertain terms, NO we REFUSE to discuss Part Time caps!!!! Can you at least speculate that that occurred or are you under an assured assumption that they just brushed it off and had themselves a merry old chuckle about it?

I think you rest a little too much emphasis on the shoulders of those individuals who the members send to negotiate for them. Even if they do bring back an agreement and precipitate the hard sell, it's still ultimately up to the members whether they buy the deal or not.

You obviously want to defend the members apathy or stupidity in not understanding fully what they are signing on the dotted line for. We are all adults here and laziness at becoming more self educated is one area that I'm getting sick to death of others making excuses for.

Don't make excuses for people's choice to remain stupid Kev. It's a choice they made of their own free will.

 

[Kev3188]

You're kidding, right?

 

[WeAAsles]

You're kidding, right?

100% absolutely not. And I think this whole conversation stems from your own frustration that your co-workers (not members) are either too stupid or too apathetic to see the writing on the wall that they are unprotected and desperately need to join a Union?

I share your frustration and I'm not even in your shoes or situation.

You can't rest what they do squarely on your own shoulders Kev. Just as much as you can't blame the IAM leadership for not wanting to exhaust their resources on a drive for your group that is showing no motivation to put in at least some measure of their own heavy lifting.

Stop pointing fingers in the wrong direction Kev. Some of the people you work with need to look in a mirror once in awhile.

 

[Kev3188]

My contempt for inept leadership and my thoughts on our drive on the DL property are two different issues.

They only conflate when considering how DL 141's missteps continue rob diminish the value proposition of representation for people here.

 

[WeAAsles]

My contempt for inept leadership and my thoughts on our drive on the DL property are two different issues.

They only conflate when considering how DL 141's missteps continue rob diminish the value proposition of representation for people here.

You're right Kev. They're all just a bunch of inept bumbling fools. The fact that Continental employees had no union or contract for 30 years had nothing in the slightest to do with the situation or story at all huh? Give me a break because I'm starting to get tired of this. Especially from someone like you who I know has a very good head on his shoulders.

Besides the fact you never answered any of the questions I posed to you. All I'm getting is a bunch of phrases meant to illicit a response of unsatisfaction. 

You're starting to remind me of WT bro. And I take no pleasure in saying that.

 

[Worldport]

You're right Kev. They're all just a bunch of inept bumbling fools. The fact that Continental employees had no union or contract for 30 years had nothing in the slightest to do with the situation or story at all huh? Give me a break because I'm starting to get tired of this. Especially from someone like you who I know has a very good head on his shoulders.

Besides the fact you never answered any of the questions I posed to you. All I'm getting is a bunch of phrases meant to illicit a response of unsatisfaction. 

You're starting to remind me of WT bro. And I take no pleasure in saying that.

After thinking about it and if there is no hope getting a cap inserted in this T/A I guess you are better off making $30  then $25. I still don't think the company would oppose a reasonable cap. 

 

[Kev3188]

Your not liking my responses doesn't mean I haven't answered.

And they are inept; their track record speaks for itself.

Inferring I'm an anarchist, have sour grapes, and resemble everyone's favorite ex-pat deacon isn't going to make me change my answers...

 

[Kev3188]

After thinking about it and if there is no hope getting a cap inserted in this T/A I guess you are better off making $30  then $25. I still don't think the company would oppose a reasonable cap. 

Not a bad theory... Until you go from working 40 a week to 20-25...

 

[700UW]

Or when thousands get laid off when they go down to seven stations in 2018 vs 47 protected stations.