District 141 Meets with United, Secures Wage Increases for Members Working Under Modified Contracts

[WeAAsles]

1966

http://peoplesworld.org/today-in-labor-history-airline-workers-strike-in-196/

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not sure when exactly the IAM organized at NWA but going back to this find I know that it was at least 1989. Maybe my buddy 700 can give me the exact date? Anyway this tells me that at least from 1989 on the IAM was able to build up language (important thing) for the people they represented at NWA. Good or great language takes time and and many years to build. So even in a BK situation especially now with the law of the 1113 in place the hits by percentage won't be as bad if there was a good build over many years.

I love learning and reading honestly.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/712/732/1475761/

Building language takes a long time; erasing it only takes a minute. Just ask some of your "in laws" at DL 141.

Learning and reading are indeed good.

Oh, and you're right; my heart is /absolutely/ not interested in business as usual, or settling on a regressive CBA just to say I have one.

 

[700UW]

141 Bylaws:
 

 

ARTICLE XII - AMENDMENTS AND REFERENDUMS
Section 1.
 
These bylaws may be amended or changed by proposals submitted sixty (60) days prior to a District Lodge Convention, and also proposed bylaw must be distributed to delegates thirty (30) days prior to convention, and also ratified in a referendum held on the first or only Local Lodge meeting no later than the month of March of the following year by a majority of all votes cast by the members of the affiliated Local Lodges, and subsequently approved by the Grand Lodge. The amendments or changes shall become effective as stipulated by the approving Grand Lodge Officer.
 
Section 2.
 
Between Conventions any Local Lodge affiliated with the District may propose amendments or changes to these Bylaws or propose a referendum vote on policy matters by submitting same in writing to the District Secretary-Treasurer. The Local Lodge will send copies of such proposed amendments, or changes to the Bylaws or policy, to all other Local Lodges at the same time they are sent to the Secretary-Treasurer as any changes must be endorsed and the District Secretary-Treasurer notified by at least ten (10) other Local Lodges within forty-five (45) days after the date the proposing Local Lodge mails submission to the District Secretary-Treasurer. If endorsements are not received by the District Secretary-Treasurer within this specified time, the proposals are null and void. Changes to any Article or subdivision of the Bylaws or policy approved or not approved by a referendum vote of the membership may not again be submitted for change for at least twelve (12) months or the next Convention, whichever is earlier.
 
Section 3.
 
After the foregoing provisions have been complied with, the District Secretary-Treasurer shall, not later than thirty (30) days after receipt of the necessary endorsements prepare the ballots and have printed thereon the text of the proposed referendum.
 
 
 

So once again, the members approve and vote on the bylaws.

 

[Kev3188]

That's great. Let me know when DL 141 makes it easier for anyone to either run for office, vote, or amend the bylaws.

 

[700UW]

I am only pointing out the change is approved or disapproved by the members, not the leadership as your seem to be portraying.
 
A referendum vote gives ALL the members the opportunity and right to vote, shame on them for not using it.

 

[700UW]

http://www.voteiam.com/images/Comparison.Combined.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

Building language takes a long time; erasing it only takes a minute. Just ask some of your "in laws" at DL 141.

Learning and reading are indeed good.

Oh, and you're right; my heart is /absolutely/ not interested in business as usual, or settling on a regressive CBA just to say I have one.

Kev you said somewhere that you still have the IBT contract for the ramp Continental guys? I want you to find that contract.

Now not seeing it myself personally and assuming that there was ZERO protection for Station Staffing of jobs. What "could" have occurred if say the IAM negotiators refused to send either TA out for a vote? Could now UAL management had pushed a nuclear option red button and outsourced the ENTIRE Continental ramp operation? 

Some people like to make the claim that after you become organized the company has to maintain the status quo until the first contract is negotiated. (I submit for your perusal)
 
"The Transport Workers Union of America, which represents Frontier ramp workers, said the job cuts bode poorly for both employees and Frontier customers.
 
"It's unnecessary to eliminate the company's ramp operations at a time when airlines are earning record profits, the price of aviation fuel is dropping and passenger loads are rising," said Steve Roberts, director of organizing for the union. "This is bad business and bad for customers."

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_27334589/frontier-outsource-denver-airport-ramp-reservations-work

So let's say that the combined group had decided to vote down both TA 1 and TA 2. Sounds like the UAL side of the fence would have just been able to continue to mossy on working. But the former non Union, we had no language for 30 years, Continental side of that still in place fence would have possibly been where? 

Kev we here at AA have a very different scenario then what the combined UAL people faced in their merger. 

Reverse the story now. Delta merged with Northwest. You had a Union election vote and the majority (brainwashed) Delta numbers voted no. Could the same situation have been placed on those shoulders of those DL workers who would have been negotiating the first JCBA having nothing brought to the table that you would be sitting at? Absolutely.

Right now you are in a predicament and you know it that if Delta airlines wants they can begin to do a Frontier Airlines transition on you tomorrow. Again you have nothing with Delta except what management is generous enough to give you. You have no stations, no pay, no benefits, and no job security. All you have is the treats that management decides to give you out of their candy bag.

Right now whether it sucks or not and these guys are going to vote on something that will be a dramatic improvement, they have A LOT more than you. They have an enforceable "Employment Contract"

Sometimes I think you need to remember unfortunately where you sit. You don't have a Union, you don't have a contract, and you have no real rights at Delta Airlines.

But I absolutely want to see that change and extremely hope I get to see that day.
 

 

[WeAAsles]

And at first I didn't understand why the IAM put out the hard sell for TA 2 but they didn't do that over on the US side when they got their standalone agreement before JCBA talks.

I think I understand why they did that now.

 

[Kev3188]

I am only pointing out the change is approved or disapproved by the members, not the leadership as your seem to be portraying.
 
A referendum vote gives ALL the members the opportunity and right to vote, shame on them for not using it.

Yes I know. But it's also that same leadership that green lights anything for a vote.
 
 

Sometimes I think you need to remember unfortunately where you sit. You don't have a Union, you don't have a contract, and you have no real rights at Delta Airlines.

I don't need a refresher; I live it every day.

POS CBA's at other carriers won't help my cause. At all.

But I think you're missing the point; people aren't going to vote for a union just to say they have one, and the people that already have one shouldn't have to settle for terrible CBA's.

And labor in general should get out of the asleep-at-the-wheel complacency that's dogged us for the last 30 years. The outdated mindset of most of DL 141's "leadership" is a prime example of what needs to change.

 

[WeAAsles]

POS CBA's at other carriers won't help my cause. At all.
 

Absolutely correct. But what you saw as a POS if you're talking about TA 2 I see as the first foundation of what at least one side needed. They needed a baseline of some type of job protection. They needed SCOPE. Something they really didn't have before they brought in the IBT to try and get them something.

Now if you're talking about this new TA, you and I are absolutely seeing a different side of the debate. What I see to quantify this over to my negotiations is the IAM securing so many more stations that when our guys begin to talk about that it's going to be that much more difficult to make an argument that the competitors can wack stations any time they please. (Something only Delta has the ability to do) AND securing Express work makes the argument for Jerry Glass to say he wants our Freight and or Catering. Our AE is Unionized under contract so we can't pick up that work in stations that are under SCOPE protection. So our guys can make the argument that freight and catering are comparable to that work we can't have.
 

 

But I think you're missing the point; people aren't going to vote for a union just to say they have one, and the people that already have one shouldn't have to settle for terrible CBA's.

 

In the fire of any organizing drive you have their at Delta, the company is always going to increase your pay to give off the illusion that you have it better than the rest of the organized industry. But both you and I know very well that that's all it is, an illusion.

And I guess what you see in this deal is a terrible TA? What I see is a dramatic improvement from where they are right now. One that I would jump on like Jennifer Aniston if I saw her on a tropical Island beach somewhere.

What I see is the second step from that day they signed their first JCBA contract. And for them hopefully they can finish the last piece of that perfect contract (No such thing) in the next go around in 4 or 5 years.
 

And labor in general should get out of the asleep-at-the-wheel complacency that's dogged us for the last 30 years. The outdated mindset of most of DL 141's "leadership" is a prime example of what needs to change.

I don't know enough about their internals and all the people associated with the District to make that sort of judgement call? But if I were to listen to the infernal ramblings of Nelson I would be led to believe that Klemm is Hitler and the rest of them are his SS henchmen.

Have you seen the latest video Kev? "I don't know, I don't know" I don't know, I folded my laundry, no more dirty Laundry, Oh goodness I'm really enjoying my beer here" I hope that this ain't the guy you're basing your opinions off of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCOU5Nmg3uY&app=desktop

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not; I'm basing my opinions off of both my experience in this industry, and my study of it.

Of course the current UA T/A is an improvement; but like I said before, that's more a testament to how bad the current one is than anything else.

That said, in the case of 141's leadership itself, Tim is right. That extends to their organizing model too, BTW...

 

[700UW]

I have been that room, bottom line is you all can say and think what you want but being in the room is a gut wrenching experience and none of you know what the company told them or what ultimatums that were given. As you know none of us know exactly what transpired.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm not; I'm basing my opinions off of both my experience in this industry, and my study of it.

Of course the current UA T/A is an improvement; but like I said before, that's more a testament to how bad the current one is than anything else.

That said, in the case of 141's leadership itself, Tim is right. That extends to their organizing model too, BTW...

Has Tim occasionally brought up some valid points? Absolutely. But most of the time his points are so slanted to try and effect a change that put's him back in a leather chair of his own that I can't give him too much credibility. Obviously (And surprisingly) you don't feel the same way about Tim I guess?

Personally I think he's as much a cancer as Ford and Harrison is to all of us.

I guess maybe you didn't read his dire warnings about the IAM on "No Way Afa"

You really want to attach yourself to giving this guy even an ounce of credibility Kev? I'm really very surprised actually here now.

 

[700UW]

Oh and don't forget Tim was very instrumental in getting those who were in power and negotiated those bad deals elected.

Funny how people forget that fact.

Why do you think he was given the organizing job at 141?

To the victor goes the spoils.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and don't forget Tim was very instrumental in getting those who were in power and negotiated those bad deals elected.
Funny how people forget that fact.
Why do you think he was given the organizing job at 141?
To the victor goes the spoils.

Delaney? You mean the guy that went on "Vacation" and was never seen again?